why do people insist on comparing jrpgs to western rpgs? and when they do they always use the most commercially-viable, most mainstream-in-their-mechanics jrpgs and compare them with grognard western rpgs like planescape.
oh, planescape isn't grognard you say? i know we're in the codex forums where a game like PS:T is considered extremely "casual" and mainstream because of its emphasis on story and not on deep gameplay mechanics, but don't be lulled into thinking games like baldur's gate or PS:T are the equivalent to something like final fantasy or dragon quest.
NOBODY OUTSIDE OF RPG AFICIONADOS KNOWS OR CARES ABOUT THESE GAMES. Think of the average western gamer and try to guess how many would even know about the existence of a game of like Planescape. Even million-unit selling western RPGs are obscure.
On the flip side the big-selling JRPGs are known by everyone. I know more people who know Final Fantasy than know about FIFA/Madden/CoD, which are the 3 biggest selling franchises in history.
FF and DQ (and their ilk) are japanese-developed RPGs made by devs who were originally inspired by Wizardry and Ultima, and both franchises were began with the express purpose of dumbing down the overly complicated elements in order to sell more units.
This has never been in doubt. However, there are plenty of less well-known jrpgs that feature much deeper gameplay mechanics than most western developed RPGs, and then there is the issue of whether a jrpg is a jrpg simply because it is japanese.
(For example: Elminage games are japanese-developed yet they are made by ex-Wizardry developers and are more Wizardry and more "hard-core" than 95% of all western RPGs. No one in their right mind would consider Elminage games JRPGs since they barely feature a story or companions and they play like Wizardry scenarios).
My point is that if you want to complain about how FFs (or a FF-derivative like Xenogears) are not hard-core enough then don't cite more obscure, more mechanically complex western RPGs (such as PS:T) or whatever-the-fuck.
Simply put a franchise/JRPG like "Final Fantasy" has literally no western equivalent in terms of pedigree.
One quick example of a JRPG with better dungeons, character development and gameplay mechanics than the vast majority of western RPGs is the SMT spin-off "Strange Journey" for the Nintendo DS with its 1st-person view dungeon crawling, for example.
That would be a good title to use when trying to compare "which genre is deeper". However if all you know about jrpgs is "Xenogears is a turd for kids" that is basically the equivalent of only having ever played a FIFA or Call of Duty game. Xenogears is as mainstream and casual as it gets and the type of JRPG it is a derivative of is more akin to a Light Novel than what we consider to be a "proper RPG".
If you want to play the "japanese equivalent" of a "proper RPG" then you're gonna have to look beyond big name franchises. If you simply want to play good games/JRPGS, and are not specifically looking for deep gameplay, then stuff like Earthbound, Mother 3, Xenogears, FF series, DQ series, Persona series, Suikoden 1-3, Vagrant Story, FF Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Ogre Battle, etc, are all excellent, excellent games.
They are also all extremely mainstream and casual.
FWIW, I consider most western RPGs of the last 17 years equally bereft of any sort of meaningful gameplay mechanics. To me, a game like Pillars of Eternity or Divinity: Original Sin is the western equivalent of a bland JRPG.
