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Sentenza

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Romanian_Dude2005 said:
My grandparents believe in the Flat World theory.
Look at this way: the earth surface represent a plane into a space, but the earth gravity is able to 'blend' the space around, making it appear like a sphere like solid
The world is 7000+ years old
7000'+' could also mean 7,000,000,000
The Genesis of the Univers happend in 6 days
the big-bang dured less than a second
If you dig 800 m bellow sea level you're in hell
never tried that, but who know?
Praying to a icon will increase your chances of winning the lotto
as above...
There are 4 months left till Judgement Day
I really hope your post wasn't 4 months old...
 

Excrément

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Sentenza said:
Romanian_Dude2005 said:
My grandparents believe in the Flat World theory.
Look at this way: the earth surface represent a plane into a space, but the earth gravity is able to 'blend' the space around, making it appear like a sphere like solid

funny, if it is the only way for Church to reconcile with scientists...
 

Sentenza

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Excrément said:
funny, if it is the only way for Church to reconcile with scientists...
I was not defending his grandparents position or what the Bible says (wich I don't know about). It's just another way to see the thing; you know, (almost) everything is relative...
If you're not enaugh openminded to accept another way of see things, you're not better than his grandparents are
 

Blahblah Talks

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Sentenza said:
Excrément said:
funny, if it is the only way for Church to reconcile with scientists...
I was not defending his grandparents position or what the Bible says (wich I don't know about). It's just another way to see the thing; you know, (almost) everything is relative...
If you're not enaugh openminded to accept another way of see things, you're not better than his grandparents are
It's hard to be open minded to a position that ignores mountains of scientific evidence and offers as a counter-argument (mostly) uncorroborated claims written 2000+ years ago.
 

Bluebottle

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Look at this way: the earth surface represent a plane into a space, but the earth gravity is able to 'blend' the space around, making it appear like a sphere like solid

If space was bent then, so to would the light that traveled through it be bent. As such we would percieve this flat world as actually flat (not as a sphere).
 

Blahblah Talks

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http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=561782

"New idea for a game"

A oblivion in the 20th century. A mix between Gta and Oblivion (+ Vampires : The masaqurade bloodlines)
...
Demons - You know guys with horns, and stuff like that.

Cars - Insted of horses (of course )

Normal and "Cooler" cloths - With "Cooler" i mean like long, black leather jackets (like matrix) wich looks sweet on vampires. And clothes like that. Normal are just simply normal
You can't make up shit this funny.
 

Kraszu

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Let's conduct a simple experiment - pour a water into a cup and then turn it upside down. What will happen?? The water will flow!! With this experiment done - let's make another one - this time a mental one - flood our planet Earth with oceans - and then turn upside down, again. Water should analogically vanish!! But - as you probably noticed, Earth has oceans, seas, lakes and rives (and has them for millions of years). So, how it is possible that both Europeans and Australians - supposedly living on the other parts of our globe have the same level of sea?? There's one and simple explanation to this phenomenon: The Earth is Flat!

:P
 
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Blahblah Talks said:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?s=a6df251b47588ed363f9aed8ded4899f&showtopic=561782

"New idea for a game"

A oblivion in the 20th century. A mix between Gta and Oblivion (+ Vampires : The masaqurade bloodlines)
...
Demons - You know guys with horns, and stuff like that.

Cars - Insted of horses (of course )

Normal and "Cooler" cloths - With "Cooler" i mean like long, black leather jackets (like matrix) wich looks sweet on vampires. And clothes like that. Normal are just simply normal
You can't make up shit this funny.

What's quite sad is the variety of idiotic responses which are apparently meant to be "funny".
 

Lumpy

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Kraszu said:
Let's conduct a simple experiment - pour a water into a cup and then turn it upside down. What will happen?? The water will flow!! With this experiment done - let's make another one - this time a mental one - flood our planet Earth with oceans - and then turn upside down, again. Water should analogically vanish!! But - as you probably noticed, Earth has oceans, seas, lakes and rives (and has them for millions of years). So, how it is possible that both Europeans and Australians - supposedly living on the other parts of our globe have the same level of sea?? There's one and simple explanation to this phenomenon: The Earth is Flat!

:P
It's really hard to say whether that (or most other content on that site for that matter) is pure stupidity, or making fun of pure stupidity. I'd put my money on the former.
 

Blahblah Talks

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Lumpy said:
It's really hard to say whether that (or most other content on that site for that matter) is pure stupidity, or making fun of pure stupidity. I'd put my money on the former.
Turn on your satire detector. I think the majority of the Flat Earthers there are just trolling. The amazing thing is all the Round Earthers who it appears are taking them seriously.
 

Lumpy

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My fallout 3 hopes and dreams

-Real time combat
-1st and 3rd person camera, like oblivion and mw, None of this top down gibberish.
-Clothing.. like morrowind, pants, each glove, each shoulder, And underwear, not an ugly blue uniform glued to me
-More vehicles
-More character customization, like oblivion
-giant free roam world

Well thats all i can think of for now. basicly, imagine oblivions graphics and world and such, Only fallout, if that makes sense meh.gif
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=559209
 
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Lumpy said:
My fallout 3 hopes and dreams

-Real time combat
-1st and 3rd person camera, like oblivion and mw, None of this top down gibberish.
-Clothing.. like morrowind, pants, each glove, each shoulder, And underwear, not an ugly blue uniform glued to me
-More vehicles
-More character customization, like oblivion
-giant free roam world

Well thats all i can think of for now. basicly, imagine oblivions graphics and world and such, Only fallout, if that makes sense meh.gif
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=559209


I see from certain quotes that there were many, many posts removed. Who's going to bet they were offering negative outlooks in a constructive or sensible manner?
 

Sentenza

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Lumpy said:
My fallout 3 hopes and dreams
...
-More character customization, like oblivion
What does he means? FACE-GEN?
And besides, why spend 30' to 'create' a face that doesn't look like shit if the game is supposed to be in 1st person? What's the point?
Well thats all i can think of for now. basicly, imagine oblivions graphics and world and such, Only fallout, if that makes sense meh.gif
No; and OB graphics (and physics) is totally messed up, and their engine is the worst in the history of computer games (well, not counting MW)
 

Excrément

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Sentenza said:
Excrément said:
funny, if it is the only way for Church to reconcile with scientists...
I was not defending his grandparents position or what the Bible says (wich I don't know about). It's just another way to see the thing; you know, (almost) everything is relative...
If you're not enaugh openminded to accept another way of see things, you're not better than his grandparents are

I don't care about what his grandparents as soon as his grand parents don't lobby in order to remove the darwin theory.
every people on earth have a right to ignorance, I just don't want they spread their ignorance.
 

Data4

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Excrément said:
Sentenza said:
Excrément said:
funny, if it is the only way for Church to reconcile with scientists...
I was not defending his grandparents position or what the Bible says (wich I don't know about). It's just another way to see the thing; you know, (almost) everything is relative...
If you're not enaugh openminded to accept another way of see things, you're not better than his grandparents are

I don't care about what his grandparents as soon as his grand parents don't lobby in order to remove the darwin theory.
every people on earth have a right to ignorance, I just don't want they spread their ignorance.

Did you know that "[removal] of the darwin theory" is hyperbole concocted by anti-religious groups in order to frame all creationists as ignorant? Did you know that many creationists accept the concepts of evolution with the sole exception being disagreement with the idea that matter evolves from nothing?

Creationists aren't just fundies. There are agnostics who may not subscribe to a specific belief system, but feel that it's possible that some higher intelligence is behind the origins of everything. It's almost like you're canonizing Darwin's theory and anyone who doesn't share your faith is an ignorant hick redneck. The irony is fantastic.

-D4
 

Kraszu

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Data4 said:
Did you know that "[removal] of the darwin theory" is hyperbole concocted by anti-religious groups in order to frame all creationists as ignorant?

I highly doubt that most Americans are any religious and they made such big conspiracy that say they want intelligent design learned in schools.

Data4 said:
Did you know that many creationists accept the concepts of evolution with the sole exception being disagreement with the idea that matter evolves from nothing?

That is different matter it has nothing to do whit theory of evolution since it doesn't explain what was at beginning if there was any.
 

Bluebottle

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Did you know that "[removal] of the darwin theory" is hyperbole concocted by anti-religious groups in order to frame all creationists as ignorant?

Do have any evidence to back this up, because I've had this argued at me countless times, always by American fundamentalist Christians. I'd be suprised to find out that they didn't have some kind of orginized lobby in Washington, doubly suprised to find out that the lobby representing them is actually a propaganda concoction of their philosophical rivals.
 

Sentenza

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Bluebottle said:
If space was bent then, so to would the light that traveled through it be bent. As such we would percieve this flat world as actually flat (not as a sphere).
Good point; I guess light is only partially influenced by gravity and so space 'form', but my physic knowledge ends pretty much here...
Excrément said:
I just don't want they spread their ignorance.
Agreed on that
Data4 said:
but feel that it's possible that some higher intelligence is behind the origins of everything.
I don't stand the 'creationist' teory, but, my view for this particular matter, is that 'intelligence' didn't came out of nothing.
If intelligence 'exists', that intelligence could only be derived and not 'created' out of nothing (but it just my opinion)
 

Data4

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Kraszu said:
Data4 said:
Did you know that "[removal] of the darwin theory" is hyperbole concocted by anti-religious groups in order to frame all creationists as ignorant?

I highly doubt that most Americans are any religious and they made such big conspiracy that say they want intelligent design learned in schools.

Creationists just want Intelligent design presented as another possibility along with evolution. That's it. It's not some big conspiracy to replace the teaching of evolution, because if it were, there'd be some serious seperation of church and state issues at play.

Data4 said:
Did you know that many creationists accept the concepts of evolution with the sole exception being disagreement with the idea that matter evolves from nothing?

That is different matter it has nothing to do whit theory of evolution since it doesn't explain what was at beginning if there was any.

Darwin himself called the presentation of the theory "The Origin of Species". There are many diehard practicioners of the religion of evolution that assert that life evolved from nothing out of a pre-primordial soup of atoms, molecules, etc. just swirling into the basic proteins that are then said to evolve into what we know as organic matter. This despite any proof of that.

Bluebottle said:
Do have any evidence to back this up, because I've had this argued at me countless times, always by American fundamentalist Christians. I'd be suprised to find out that they didn't have some kind of orginized lobby in Washington, doubly suprised to find out that the lobby representing them is actually a propaganda concoction of their philosophical rivals.

Sorry, no. At least nothing empirical. It was probably a bit presumptuous to state this as fact. I'm going off of anecdotal experience, here. People I know and/or have talked to on the matter. I'm wondering if you have anything on the Washington lobbies, as I'm admittedly ignorant on just what they want in this push for creationism teaching. If they want creationism to replace evolution, period, then I can't side with them completely. There's too much evidence to show that organisms change to adapt. This, interestingly enough, does not fly in the face of the idea that everything was created by God. Why people (on both sides, but mainly the Christian) continue to argue that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive is the main thing dividing the groups (theology aside).

Sentenza said:
Data4 said:
but feel that it's possible that some higher intelligence is behind the origins of everything.
I don't stand the 'creationist' teory, but, my view for this particular matter, is that 'intelligence' didn't came out of nothing.
If intelligence 'exists', that intelligence could only be derived and not 'created' out of nothing (but it just my opinion)

And this, of course, is where any debate would end, because it takes it all the way back to the question of the existence of God-- specifically "If God exists, who created him?". The only answer a believer in the faith could honestly give is "He always was", which can't be argued against because it ventures into nebulous area of belief by faith.

And of course, anyone with faith in a higher power is automatically an ignorant moron, so...

-D4
 

Kraszu

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Data4 said:
Creationists just want Intelligent design presented as another possibility along with evolution. That's it. It's not some big conspiracy to replace the teaching of evolution, because if it were, there'd be some serious seperation of church and state issues at play.

The problem whit intelligent design is that it is not science, there is no science proof of intelligent design, no premise nothing. Teaching religion on science class is against separation of religion and church.

Data4 said:
Did you know that many creationists accept the concepts of evolution with the sole exception being disagreement with the idea that matter evolves from nothing?

That is different matter it has nothing to do whit theory of evolution since it doesn't explain what was at beginning if there was any.

Data4 said:
Darwin himself called the presentation of the theory "The Origin of Species". There are many diehard practicioners of the religion of evolution that assert that life evolved from nothing out of a pre-primordial soup of atoms, molecules, etc. just swirling into the basic proteins that are then said to evolve into what we know as organic matter. This despite any proof of that.

You don't know what nothing means.
 

Data4

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Kraszu said:
You don't know what nothing means.

Webster's Online Dictionary said:
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Nothing
10 entries found for nothing.
To select an entry, click on it.

Main Entry: 1noth·ing
Pronunciation: 'n&-thi[ng]
Function: pronoun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English nAn thing, nAthing, from nAn no + thing thing -- more at NONE
1 : not any thing : no thing <leaves nothing to the imagination>
2 : no part
3 : one of no interest, value, or consequence <they mean nothing to me>
- nothing doing : by no means : definitely no
- nothing for it : no alternative <nothing for it but to start over>

Whit
2 entries found for whit.
To select an entry, click on it.

Main Entry: whit
Pronunciation: 'hwit, 'wit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, probably alteration of wiht, wight creature, thing -- more at WIGHT
: the smallest part or particle imaginable : BIT <what some people will do for a whit of publicity -- Patrick Quinn>

What's your definition of nothing?

-D4
 

Calis

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Data4 said:
Creationists just want Intelligent design presented as another possibility along with evolution.
Which would be fine, if the theories on intelligent design had any explanatory or predictive aspects to them that can be tested with fossil findings or matched to the models we have describing biological mechanisms as we understand them. They don't, so let's stop pretending the two theories are of equal scientific value already. The point "We're pretty far from absolute scientific proof for evolution, so stop pretending it is fact" is a valid one, of course, and while an argument can be made for some kind of intelligence having guided the creation of life on earth, there is no coherent non-evolution ID theory (that I'm aware of) that even comes close to providing a framework to explain the variety of species & fossils that exist or have existed in the past.
So, in short, I'm not against explicitly stating in schools (and even in science) that the mechanisms of evolution as mainstream science describes them are not fully understood or proven, I'm not even against incorporating the possibility of an intelligent entity meddling with the way life has evolved in high school biology, but I am firmly against presenting pure creationism as an alternative scientific theory of equal merit, because the only reason for viewing it like that is a religious one.

Religion should deal with faith and absolute truths (and faith in that truth). Science should deal with models that describe the world we observe as accurately as possible. Even basic laws of physics should be regarded with suspicion. For instance, the laws of thermodynamics shouldn't be viewed as absolute, universal truth, they should be viewed as a model that seems to match everything we observe. Incorporating thermodynamical considerations into other models (ranging from optics to black hole physics) makes it a whole lot easier to get a model going that matches your measurements, which tempts people to view it as absolute truth. While it may be absolute truth for our universe, in the realm of science these laws have one meaning and one meaning alone: a model that matches other stuff we observe & subsequent models that are being drawn up really, really well.
Of course, I'm not comparing evolution to thermodynamics; the models for evolution can never be completely matched to observations as the measurement data we have is incomplete and there are about a zillion factors that have affected the exact progression of life on Earth, but in this respect it still offers a bunch more than pure creationism.
I think the above text, which is lengthy for my standards, lays bare a problem that some people (on both camps) have with evolution: they regard it as a "why" theory, while it shouldn't be viewed as anything more than a "how" theory. To continue my horrible analogy, the same thing can be applied to thermodynamics. You could view the First Law (energy conservation) as a universal truth, or you could view it as something that seems to apply to every known model & measurement. I'm all for doing the second, keep your filthy truths out of my science already.

In other words: science just provides a description of the "how", leaving the "why" for religion. People who claim science should provide the "why" are just plain wrong.
 

Data4

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Calis, for the most part, I agree with you.

Anyway, this thread has gotten a little too serious, considering the original topic, so I'm going to drop the evolution vs. creationism bit here. If anyone wants to continue in General, I'll come along.

I will leave with this, which is a non preachy look at creationism from a scientific point of view. I just found it a few minutes ago, and so far, I'm finding it fascinating.

-D4
 

Kraszu

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Nothing:

noth·ing Pronunciation (nthng)
pron.
1. No thing; not anything: The box contained nothing. I've heard nothing about it.
2. No part; no portion: Nothing remains of the old house but the cellar hole.
3. One of no consequence, significance, or interest: The new nonsmoking policy is nothing to me.
n.
1. Something that has no existence.
2. Something that has no quantitative value; zero: a score of two to nothing.

3. One that has no substance or importance; a nonentity: "A nothing is a dreadful thing .


Re-primordial soup of atoms, molecules, etc. is definitly someting not nothing.
 

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