Community Bethesda developer on the FO fans reaction

[Seven]

Once again quote something to prove your point, don't just make up shit silly faggot.

 

[Mech]

*sigh* I wish some people were smart enough to remeber their own writing, but what you gonna do....

I wasn't talking like a guru.

I guess SPECIAL isn't as fundamental as we thought, but then again neither is the FO atmosphere or style of play which begs the question why use the FO name at all.

there you go, quotes, yes REAL quotes, if you don't believe me, then go back and look yourself. If you don't want to then you don't deserve to post anymore. Take some initiative and stop being so lazy.

Edit: Im gone for real now, I know that your response is just going to be another stupid rambling because thats all you can do, have some fun with it this time though cause I won't respond.

 

[ichpokhudezh]

My explenation is perfectly logical, it is yours that is not

Right.
Since you're too dumb to spend some time googling to check others' arguments, here are the links:
argumentation technique you've employed.
A definition of 'provoke'

Besides, it will help you with your SATs.

 

[Mech]

My explenation is perfectly logical, it is yours that is not

Right.
Since you're too dumb to spend some time googling to check others' arguments, here are the links:
argumentation technique you've employed.
A definition of 'provoke'

Besides, it will help you with your SATs.

Well thats fine, you can hide behind that theory all you want, but until you prove why it was Bethesda's fault, your explenation isn't anymore valid then mine. And the provoke thing... What do you think starts an arguement or discussion? Provoking the other person of course. If you don't agree with that, then I really would like you to explain what you think causes an arguement or discussion. Provoking another person is only a bad thing when it is meant to cause harm, which was not the case here, if you think was, then sorry but that was NOT my intent.

Edit: By the way, I must make this VERY clear. Can you please explain why it is Bethesda's fault for, and then tell me why it is logical, and then why my "straw man" argument is not a proper symonom for the situation? Because as far as I can see, it is perfectly logical to anyone who is not intent on being illogical just to prove they are "right". If thats the case I give up now cause I know where this is headed.

 

[Seven]

*sigh* I wish some people were smart enough to remeber their own writing, but what you gonna do....

I wasn't talking like a guru.

I guess SPECIAL isn't as fundamental as we thought, but then again neither is the FO atmosphere or style of play which begs the question why use the FO name at all.

there you go, quotes, yes REAL quotes, if you don't believe me, then go back and look yourself. If you don't want to then you don't deserve to post anymore. Take some initiative and stop being so lazy.

Edit: Im gone for real now, I know that your response is just going to be another stupid rambling because thats all you can do, have some fun with it this time though cause I won't respond.

That's right fucktard, I did write that, look what it was based on:

Q. Is the SPECIAL system going to remain intact? What changes are planned?
A. Again, too early, although I will say that as a general rule we plan to remain as true and faithful as possible to what made Fallout such a great and memorable experience.

If that's not enough, then here's the whole fucking post: http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4813&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50[/quote]

How does me, making a logical conclusion from a statement that Bathesda made qualify me as acting like a guru? Furthermore, how does me disagreeing with your assessment of me as acting like a guru qualify me as a hypocrite? IT DOESN'T, so fuck off. Are you so stupid as to think that I/others don't have access to the posts that I've made. Do you think that you can take one or two lines out of context and then yell victory? UN-FUCKING-ELIEVABLE, go crawl back under that rock you came out from half-wit.

 

[Seven]

My explenation is perfectly logical, it is yours that is not

Right.
Since you're too dumb to spend some time googling to check others' arguments, here are the links:
argumentation technique you've employed.
A definition of 'provoke'

Besides, it will help you with your SATs.

You know it begs the question of why bother replying to Mech; he takes things out of context (when he's not flat-out lying); it's impossible to get a point across because he ignores all substantiations of apoint, it's just ridiculous how stupid some people can be.

 

[ichpokhudezh]

Well thats fine, you can hide behind that theory all you want

You are really funny.
PMed the OT stuff.

edit: There's also the post by Saint_Proverbius on this matter with much more elaborate and coherent rhetoric than mine. Check it out.

You know it begs the question of why bother replying to Mech

Mesh is not extremely literate, obviously. No reason to be snotty. Less alienated he/she is more probability for faster knowledge and experience accumulation there will be.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

edit: There's also the post by Saint_Proverbius on this matter with much more elaborate and coherent rhetoric than mine. Check it out.

I'm guessing he didn't reply to my post because it's not what he came here looking for. He's looking for a flame war, and I didn't give it to him.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I gave up catching up on this thread at about page three it all seems familiar ground anyway. I'm amazed people are reacting so strongly to the way we are acting, its like kicking a hornets nest and then complaining you got stung. It's our, grouping myself with the crazy hardcore fans if you'll have me, fanaticism that has kept fallouts torch alive all these years.

I'm just repeating what others have said. I'm still in shock the the devs are so un-savvy in their p.r. skills that they are reacting to the criticism the way they are. Or maybe its just that one rogue idiot and hopefully his comments will come back to bite him.

 

[DemonKing]

I'm amazed people are reacting so strongly to the way we are acting, its like kicking a hornets nest and then complaining you got stung. It's our, grouping myself with the crazy hardcore fans if you'll have me, fanaticism that has kept fallouts torch alive all these years.

I think Proverbius made a really good summary of the problems that have emerged with this announcement.

It would have been much smarter for Bethsheba to actually have some concrete infomation to tell us all before making the announcement, but maybe Ineptplay forced their hand there. Who knows?

While there has been a violent reaction from some fans (and from some of the developers), I think the main legitimate concerns of most people who enjoyed the first two games can be summarised as:

1. Joint development on consoles (always a recipie for disaster. *cough* DX2*cough*)

2. Previous Bethsheba CRPGs (especially with regards to the way dialog and combat are handled)

3. Bethsheba Statement that isometric perspective is out.

4. Lack of info. on turn-based combat/use of SPECIAL.

5. No one on the Bethsheba team with any previous FO experience.

I think added together this is sufficient for even those of us who would not call ourselves "Hardcore" FO fans to be concerned. So it's somewhat unsurprising that the rabid fans are going ballistic, IMHO.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The announcement was IPLY's decision, AFAIK.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It doesn't really matter who decided to announce it. Nobody is stupid enough, I hope, to think that Bethesda bought the license without having a good idea what they are going to do with it. The interview and developers quotes in this thread prove that.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

What chance? To make FPS RT Fallout? Btw, did they give us a chance? Let me post it again:

Hardcore Fallout fans are already registering accounts on the Elder Scrolls forums for the sole purpose of telling us how much we suck

OH NO, He'S TELllLING THE TRrRRUTH.

That may be, but look at how many hardcore Bethesda fans have registered either here or at NMA to do the exact same thing. That's right, it goes both ways. So we have to be respectful, but the others can be as much of a pissant morons as they want to be? Fuck if this is true.

Again, it goes both ways. I'm not excusing either side, just pointing out that people should actually see who it is thats causing the problem. Its not all of the Fallout fans that are acting like this, just as it aren't all of the Bethesda fans who do this shit. Painting a dire portrait of hardcore Fallout fans is a safe thing to do, it seems. We wouldn't want them to point out that their fanbase are capable of being just as ravenous or utter morons, now would we?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

first, consoles are not the horror story they once were to PC gamers. Most consoles are becoming mini-PCs anyway and the leaked specs on the Xbox 2 rivals most PC gamers home rigs. Most consoles also support USB keyboards and USB mouses. Consoles are not nearly as restrictive as they used to be.

This doesn't mean anything. What does it matter that consoles are becoming more PC like, if in turn, it's PC games that are becoming more console like?

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Has there been one fan made mod or addon for a console game, genuine question as I don't actually know?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

a. Mech, before you assign all your resources to flaming me, please, look up the word 'provoke' in a dictionary
b. FYI, you're using a bulshitter's favorite tactic: you build your own illogical model and debate it instead of my original words.

That's an interesting post subject you've got there...

If thats the case I give up now cause I know where this is headed.

Give up now...? I thought you already said you were leaving...

"Thats like saying it is a cops fault for getting shoting when he is chasing robber."
^- That is exactly like what you are saying. It isn't logical and if you can prove to me that it IS logical, then I really do want to hear it.

There are some very interesting discussions about that actually... If you're chasing a robber you'd have to have some expectation on whether he's carrying a weapon or not. Now if you managed to catch him and didn't search him properly, you turned away and he pulls out a gun, is it your fault? The reality is he's the bad guy. You've gotta expect he's going to do something to save his own hide, even if it means your death. So not only should you keep your eyes on him at all times, it also means you search them thoroughly.

The reality though, is that it depends on the circumstances. Again, if you're entering a house where a known cirminal is and he's known to be violent and have dangerous weapons, then you're stupid for entering the house. That's why SWAT was invented. Of course when it boils down to it, it's the criminals fault. You can't get away from that but there are certain expectations you have to make when dealing with a criminal. If you don't make them, you end up dead. Your fault? Not really, no-one can blame you but stupidity results in a lot of deaths. It's the fault of BOTH the criminal and the officer (same as officers shouldn't enter houses where violent and mentally ill people are without special assistance - that's policy).

Bethesda are acting just as stupid as we are. Read Saint's post, you'll find your answer there.

... and now ladies and gentlemen, for a special presentation...

The stupidity of Mech:

Bethesa didn't want to announce it! Interplay announced who they sold the right to and Bethesda didn't have a choice about the matter. So before you all bitch and complain about why they announced it, IT WASN'T THEIR CHOICE.

• So when I got the press release from Bethesda Softworks today...
• Bethesda Softworks announce agreement with Interplay to develop and publish Fallout 3
• ... and Bethesda's own

Notice how Bethesda released their news release on the same day as Yahoo posted Interplays? It's not like they were caught off guard here... Also notice how Bethesda were the ones e-mailing it to every web-site they know.

Mech: 0
Seven: 1

They agreed to interviews because they figured it would quell Fallout fans, not make them even more angry.

Gee Mech.. You sound like you're talking like a bit of a guru there. Pray tell, how do you know this information? Do you work for Bethesda? Know something we don't? Bit hypocritical there aren't we?

Mech: 0
Seven: 2

Q. Is the SPECIAL system going to remain intact? What changes are planned?
A. Again, too early, although I will say that as a general rule we plan to remain as true and faithful as possible to what made Fallout such a great and memorable experience.

I guess SPECIAL isn't as fundamental as we thought, but then again neither is the FO atmosphere or style of play which begs the question why use the FO name at all. This farce is insulting. Not only that people like you come around here and talk in reasoned tones thinking that it's a reasonable situation, well it's not, and you're not being realistic or reasonable. Lets try this, you go to their website use your approach and lets see how far you get?

Do you know what Seven was doing here Mech? A lot of us think SPECIAL is fundamental to Fallout. To us, if you're making Fallout, you use SPECIAL. Yet here are Bethesda saying "Oh gee, we really don't know about SPECIAL, but we'll definately plan to remain faithful to the license". If they want to remain faithful, they use SPECIAL. It's a no-brainer.

Mech: 0
Seven: 3

Seven, it's the PR's guy to be vauge at this point. If he makes a decision on his own he gets fired. You REALLY need to learn some things about the gaming industry before you talk like your a guru.

Pete Hines: Again, it's early to say, but it wouldn't be a leap of faith to say that we plan to use technologies in development otherwise. You could make some fairly safe leaps of faith that it would be similar in style. We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well.

That's not being vague.

Mech: 0
Seven: 4

Get your head out of your ass seven, this community has no influence what so ever. Unless you are robbing their accounts of money you can't do jack shit even though you like to believe you do. Go ahead and believe it all you want, just realise it's just a little fantasy made to make you feel better.

Looks like somebody wasn't around for the FO:BOS debacle. Let me give you a brief. Interplay announced a Fallout action RPG purely for the console. The fans cried foul and a whole lot of shit (a lot of it which was a lot worse than any of the shit seen towards Bethesda so far) went down and Interplay went ahead regardless. They said they were listening, they said they'd take fans viewpoints into consideration, until we realised they weren't. They even had to shut their FO:BOS forums down because of all the angry Fallout fans that came out of the woodwork to piss on them. In the end, FO:BOS sold 19,000 copies. It didn't even break even. It's sequel, FO:BOS2, got cancelled.

Mech: 0
Seven: 5

"I wasn't talking like a guru" <-- Off of ONE SINGLE STATEMENT you assume they aren't going to use SPECIAL.
Hypocrite.

Default point to Seven for Mech showing his stupidity and lack of understanding (again).

Mech: 0
Seven: 6

Again, it's early to say, but it wouldn't be a leap of faith to say that we plan to use technologies in development otherwise. You could make some fairly safe leaps of faith that it would be similar in style. We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well.

Was TES an RT game? And since SPECIAL was designed for TB then I guess they're going to have to make some drastic changes to SPECIAL, right? Jeez, sorry here I was think that even the average simiam as able to do a little deductive reasoning I guess I must have been wrong.

Odd, you apperantly read somewhere that they ARE going to make it real time.
So as I said before...
Hypocrite.

What do Bethesda do well? First-person, real-time action-RPGs.

Mech: 0
Seven: 7

Also Mech's inability to once again, properly use the word "hypocrite".

Mech: 0
Seven: 8

IF you had happened to actually read my long post, you would have seen that I called you a hypocrite because you contradicted yourself.

Let's see what the dictionary says about hypocrite...

• 
  hypocrite
  n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that they do not hold

Mech: 0
Seven: 9

You said you weren't talking like a guru
You then went on to assume that Falllout 3 will NOT be turnbased.
So by making that assumption you are talking like a guru and you are thereforce being a hypocrite.

Let's see what the dictionary has to say about a 'guru' shall we?

• 1. Hinduism & Tibetan Buddhism. A personal spiritual teacher.
  2.i. A teacher and guide in spiritual and philosophical matters.
  2.ii. A trusted counselor and adviser; a mentor.
  3.i. A recognized leader in a field: the guru of high finance.
  3.ii. An acknowledged and influential advocate, as of a movement or idea: In a culture that worships slimness, he was the Guru of Lean (Erica Abeel).

Mech: 0
Seven: 10

Wow Mech, you suck more than I thought. The scary thing is, Seven's not even trying.

 

[Duodenum]

Chillin' and relaxin'

Hey, look, it's another n00b! :shock:

I think there's been plenty of flying off the handle on all sides. Things could have been handled better by Bethesda, and the hardcore Fallout community could have held back on jumping to conclusions. Elder Scrolls fans and Fallout fans could have held back on inundating each other's forums with attacks and counter attacks. And certainly certain things should have been either simply not said, or worded better, by Bethesda folks.

My contribution.

Personally, I think it's extremely early. Despite what has been said by Bethesda, this game is a LONG way off. Nothing is set in stone. For all we know, the game'll be everything the hardcore Fallout fanbase wants it to be. And it's also clear that Bethesda folks ARE reading these comments -- here, on the Elder Scrolls forums, NMA, and many other boards. The Fallout fans ARE being heard, despite all the vitriol. I think it's far too early to give up hope. This initial fervor will die out, and when, eventually, Bethesda releases more concrete information about Fallout 3, perhaps -- just perhaps -- all your fears will prove to be unjustified. All we can do is wait & see.

At this point, all the arguments that can be made have been made, over & over & over again. Look at the threads here, look at the threads over at elderscrolls.com, NMA, hell even slashdot. Every position, opinion, hope, fear, attack and counter-attack has been said, repeatedly. It's clear that the hardcore Fallout fans are a passionate group, and that is good. But in an endless cycle of bashing -- on all sides of the argument -- it is possible for the message to get lost. Also, remember the old saying: "Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics -- even if you win, you're still retarded."

All I'm saying is, chill, relax, do your part to end the vicious cycle (and that includes Bethesda defenders), and hope for the best. The message has been heard. All we can do now is wait.

 

[Sentack]

Things are too early to tell, they just announce the bloody game is in development on MONDAY, so suck up guys and just wait for it.

A lot of the ranters here, including those who post the news on this website really need to relax and take a break. You guys are seriously making a mountain out of a molehill here with this whole project.

Suck up and just wait for real information back, as any developer knows, you can't make absolute judgements just yet, and they need time to get develoment cooking, the expectations here will never, ever be meet so just prepare to be disapointed while a lot more people most likely will enjoy the game.

You can moan all you want about Morrowind but it was a very popular RPG that sold execptionaly well, hence you guys may be in the monority. Anyways, Morrowind was a great RPG, it was perhaps a prime example of good american RPG design compared to Japanese design, not perfect but very good. Don't like it? Can't please everyone all the time.

Personaly, Morrowind was not for me, but I don't argue that it had a big impact and did really well.

Sentack

 

[Volourn]

To the Punks For The 80th Time:


And? they'll ignore me? r00fles! Bethseda has been ignoring me for 20 years now. They've ignored me everythime they've made a game. every single time. Why should I all of asudden think that'll change and listen to what i want as they have ignored me for 20 years. I repeat, they have ignored me for 20 years and that ain't gonna change just becuase they got the FO license. R00fles!

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

stuff

You managed to work both ignorance and xenophobia into one post, cudos.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

To the Punks For The 80th Time:


And? they'll ignore me? r00fles! Bethseda has been ignoring me for 20 years now. They've ignored me everythime they've made a game. every single time. Why should I all of asudden think that'll change and listen to what i want as they have ignored me for 20 years. I repeat, they have ignored me for 20 years and that ain't gonna change just becuase they got the FO license. R00fles!

What is a r00fle they sound tasty, do they come in buffalo dressing?

 

[Volourn]

" What is a r00fle "

MyStErY

 

[Seven]

stuff

You managed to work both ignorance and xenophobia into one post, cudos.

Lets not forget naivete. Lets be honest nothing ever changed on its own, and from what we've gotten so far it "wouldn't be a leap of faith" to assume that Bethesda wants to change/add some things that we consider fundamental to Fallout. From this we must challenge their notion of what Fallout is with our own understanding of it. The way we go about going this is open to debate, but bare in mind it's hard to discuss something in a reasonned tone when there are so many annoying newbs about. No offense "Guy above volourn", but if we took your advice I don't think we'd have any opportunity to impact anything.

 

[suibhne]

They agreed to interviews because they figured it would quell Fallout fans, not make them even more angry.

Really? I'm wondering how you know about their goal in agreeing to do interviews; hell, I'm wondering if they know their goal in agreeing to do interviews. Because, if their goal is to "quell Fallout fans," then Peter Hines really needs a reassignment to the bread line.

 

[Lasakon]

They agreed to interviews because they figured it would quell Fallout fans, not make them even more angry.

Really? I'm wondering how you know about their goal in agreeing to do interviews; hell, I'm wondering if they know their goal in agreeing to do interviews. Because, if their goal is to "quell Fallout fans," then Peter Hines really needs a reassignment to the bread line.

I think he's intentionally provoking arguments. Bethesda really needs some new PR people. Next thing you know he'll say "We're not suddenly going to use SPECIAL, Because thats not what we're good at.".