Community Bethesda developer on the FO fans reaction

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Well now you've gone and made me register.

I've been a die-hard Fallout fan from the moment I first installed it. Realizing that's not exactly going to get me my Old School props in this forum, I'll back it up with a confession that prior to Fallout, I was a life-long Inkspots fan from the age of seven. I would eat Fallout Flakes for breakfast if somebody made them. I've had my game manual autographed by developers. I have the box in a frame. I have the 3 foot retail 'standee' from the local store set up in my game room next to the 5 foot Quake II box. In short, I AM Fallout.

And as much as I'd love to see another isometric turn-based squad-level Fallout RPG, time and tears have taught me a painful, expensive lesson: its not going to happen. Interplay tried to turn Fallout into every kind of computer game imaginable. The only thing they didn't try was hosting a Fallout word jumble on Yahoo. So the question I asked myself is: "golly gee whiz but why aren't they just trying to make a game like the first two?"

Answer: The second game was a collossal failure. I know I know - this is going to earn me some lashes, but I'm not saying the game wasn't great, fantastic, amazing, and fun to play (...once they fixed the royal Cluster-F that was the car) - but commercially and financially, Fallout 2 was a washout. It didn't have big numbers. For that reason, you're not ever going to see a Fallout 2.9 for sale anytime soon.

So then we have to examine the alternatives: We've tried Fallout/Starcraft. We've tried Fallout/X-Com. We've even tried some sort of weird Frankensteinian Fallout/Gauntlet/Dark Alliance nonsense. One by one, game genres are being marked off the list of possible comebacks for Fallout.

So if you were going to marry Fallout to any game on the market today - the restriction being that this game has to be a commercial blockbuster, which one would you accept?

Unless I'm missing something, the only platforms left are the First Person RPG, The Massive Online Game, and some sort of bizarre miniatures game from Great Britain. Ruling out #3 as just pure idiocy, and ruling out #2 because lets be honest: online world games are small brained - that leaves #1.

I enjoyed Morrowind. I've never played it because the amount of time I require to complete the game seems to be less than the average lifetime of your standard PC hard drive, but I have enjoyed it nonetheless. Sure I would LOVE a true Fallout 2.9, but if Fallout 3 turns out to be a "morrowind inspired" game, I'd have to say I'll probably buy it, and I'll probably enjoy it. Would I still lament the fact that they didn't make the game that I wanted them to make? Sure.

But in a world of beggars, choosers are few and far between.

I think it is a shame that people have made such a life/death issue out of a toy. If we could set this to music, it would make a great Broadway show.

 

[Lasakon]

Explain Bio-Ware's success?

 

[Jed]

I think it is a shame that people have made such a life/death issue out of a toy.

Apparently it was important enough to you that the situation "made" you register and spend writing a lengthy post about why in a capitalist economy consumers have no power to effect product. Seems a little counter-intuitive to me, but whatever.

So is it important enough to discuss or not, and if not--then why are you here?

 

[Seven]

I think it is a shame that people have made such a life/death issue out of a toy.

Apparently it was important enough to you that the situation "made" you register and spend writing a lengthy post about why in a capitalist economy consumers have no power to effect product. Seems a little counter-intuitive to me, but whatever.

So is it important enough to discuss or not, and if not--then why are you here?

I always wonder this same thing? Why bother if it's so trivial to you? I always look at that comment as the last refuge of those who have lost all hope, but aren't willing to admit it.

 

[voodoo1man]

Time out

Ok, who is this 4too character and why is it so bad to call him a jackass? Should I be calling him an asshat instead? Out of curiosity, I searched the comment history for posts by him. I think he has RPG Codex confused with a postmodern (or maybe even beat!) literature journal. His comments are written in a poor, incomprehensible style and seem almost devoid of content (but of course, in postmodernism the style <i>is</i> the content, so it's really no surprise). When he writes nonsense like "Because of my limited chemical experience, I elect RPG Codex as a canidate for the stock pile and Quality Assurance repository of extasy, speed, and viagra," what else am I supposed to call him? After all, this is the Internet, and you are what you write. Jackass.

 

[Sheriff05]

Well now you've gone and made me register.

*followed by some total sanctimonious bullshit*

*followed by the greatest self-aggrandizing load of pompous shit I've read since I hung out on the bioware forums*

"IN SHORT, I AM FALLOUT"

Resist the urge to register next time you hapless fucktard.

 

[Briosafreak]

Re: Time out

Ok, who is this 4too character and why is it so bad to call him a jackass? Should I be calling him an asshat instead? Out of curiosity, I searched the comment history for posts by him. I think he has RPG Codex confused with a postmodern (or maybe even beat!) literature journal. His comments are written in a poor, incomprehensible style and seem almost devoid of content (but of course, in postmodernism the style <i>is</i> the content, so it's really no surprise). When he writes nonsense like "Because of my limited chemical experience, I elect RPG Codex as a canidate for the stock pile and Quality Assurance repository of extasy, speed, and viagra," what else am I supposed to call him? After all, this is the Internet, and you are what you write. Jackass.

No any of his posts normally have more substance than your entire family you fucktard. Go to the SA where they enjoy ignorant assholes as you. Bye bye, cheerio.

 

[Jed]

I always wonder this same thing? Why bother if it's so trivial to you? I always look at that comment as the last refuge of those who have lost all hope, but aren't willing to admit it.

I like to call it the Trapdoor Exit Strategy. When you realize your argument is illogical, stupid, or just doesn't hold water, you fall back on "it's just a game, d00d."

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Re: Time out

Ok, who is this 4too character and why is it so bad to call him a jackass? Should I be calling him an asshat instead? Out of curiosity, I searched the comment history for posts by him. I think he has RPG Codex confused with a postmodern (or maybe even beat!) literature journal. His comments are written in a poor, incomprehensible style and seem almost devoid of content (but of course, in postmodernism the style <i>is</i> the content, so it's really no surprise). When he writes nonsense like "Because of my limited chemical experience, I elect RPG Codex as a canidate for the stock pile and Quality Assurance repository of extasy, speed, and viagra," what else am I supposed to call him? After all, this is the Internet, and you are what you write. Jackass.

No any of his posts normally have more substance than your entire family you fucktard. Go to the SA where they enjoy ignorant assholes as you. Bye bye, cheerio.

I tend to skip 4too's posts, I don't see the point in writing in such a silly manner. But I don't have a problem with him - he's not hostile like Gromnir and his 'I is a fucking idiot' style.

 

[Eldar]

So, my question is, Arcadian, what is it that's important enough to inspire a strong reaction? What is the benchmark and do you always follow it?

"It's just a game." Sure it is, but gaming is my hobby. I'm not one of the people flaming over at Bethesda right now. I'm probably never going to flame anyone over Fallout 3. Still, I've always thought it odd that folks are so quick to say, "it's just a..." With all the mishaps in my life, I still find that I can't help but be irritated about the small stuff from time to time. ...And, for the true enthusiast, gaming is serious business. The companies that spend huge sums of money to develop these games seem to agree. The designers, deciding to fight fire with fire, seem to agree as well.

At heart, I agree with much of what you stated in your post. I don't think we have a chance of getting the isometric view and I think it's a big question whether or not we'll get the SPECIAL system at this point.

I'll probably give Fallout 3 a chance even if it turns out to resemble Morrowind. I'm not a huge fan of Morrowind, but I trust that they will try to rectify past mistakes. Nevertheless, I can't get over the feeling that it's not really a Fallout game if doesn't include, at the very least, the SPECIAL skill set.

 

[errorcode]

"Maybe he should look up the definition of "xenophobic" in the dictionary. We're not racists, we're just rumor-mongers."

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "zen-&-'fO-bE-&, "zEn-
Function: noun
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

I think the second part kinda fits some of the Fallout community. They just don't seem willing to even consider something different or strange for there idea of a fallout game.

There's nothing strange or foreign about Bethesda's work. In fact, we've all seen it and played it, and we recognise that it's not Fallout. Can Bethesda make Fallout 3 like Fallout? Mayhaps, but in the 18 years they've been around, they haven't made anything like Fallout. Even though they're "huge fans" of Fallout, they didn't really borrow anything from Fallout in a way that's parallel or even a step up from the venerable classic.

I don't think folks find Bethesda's works strange or foreign, it's more that fallout fans in general seem to automatically react negetively to anything that would be strange or foreign to fallout. The thought of any change to the perspective, SPECIAL system, combat system, NPCs, or, well, anything, automatically seems to cause the most vocal of fallout fans to get riled. They don't even seem to remotely be willing to wait and see or hear out the reasoning behind such changes.

To me, that fit with the second part of the definition of xenophobic.

 

[Jed]

Would you find it strange if the TES IV was a 3D isometric TB tactical dungeon crawl? Would you be unhappy if you went to buy a cheeseburger, but got squid between two buns? But, hey that's EVOLUTION!, you shouldn't complain that you didn't get a cheeseburger. Xenophobe, just eat your squid and be happy! You're trying to stuff our various reactions into your "progressive" view of gaming. Why should core elements of what made the first two Fallouts be changed on a whim by folks who had nothing to do with making the games in the first place?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nevertheless, I can't get over the feeling that it's not really a Fallout game if doesn't include, at the very least, the SPECIAL skill set.

I have no doubt that FO3 would use SPECIAL as it's just a collection of rather common skills and attributes. MW already has half of them, so they might as well rename the rest to show that they are big Fallout fans. Unfortunatley, it's the gameplay that made the system, well, special.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Answer: The second game was a collossal failure. I know I know - this is going to earn me some lashes, but I'm not saying the game wasn't great, fantastic, amazing, and fun to play (...once they fixed the royal Cluster-F that was the car) - but commercially and financially, Fallout 2 was a washout. It didn't have big numbers. For that reason, you're not ever going to see a Fallout 2.9 for sale anytime soon.

It's also not true. Fallout 2 did make a profit in it's release period and it's sold well over the years. It's been a constant influx of cash for distributors and Interplay alike since 1998. It may have sold slowly initially, but it's sold fairly consistantly ever since.

So then we have to examine the alternatives: We've tried Fallout/Starcraft. We've tried Fallout/X-Com. We've even tried some sort of weird Frankensteinian Fallout/Gauntlet/Dark Alliance nonsense. One by one, game genres are being marked off the list of possible comebacks for Fallout.

One thing I'd like to point out at this time is that there would have ever been those spin offs of Fallout if the name didn't mean something in the first place.

 

[protobob]

Acardian Del Sol,

Some of us are really attached to turn-based combat. We love it. We prefer it. We think its the best solution to CRPG combat for lots of reasons. For me, personally, that love began with Fallout and Fallout 2. While I suppose that first-person games with real-time combat have their place, most of us don't think it belongs in Fallout 3.

It's an opinion, we have it, and I don't see any reason not to voice it. Especially now before Bethesda has decided anything solid (atleast publicly). If they decided to appease the unwashed masses (who seem to have inherited the earth--thanks capatlism!) I guess that is their perogative.

But its just going to end up with Fallout 5 having an opening song by Britney Spears or Velvet Revolver, with the player character being a talking, hairy, levitating deathclaw, dual wielding two oversized glowing swords and spaming special attacks while completing jump puzzles in between 30 minute cutscenes on an XBOX2.

At some point the line between intelligent gaming and console hits for pre-teens and dual-wielding drow fans has to be drawn. I say we draw it here and now.

 

[Gromnir]

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewto ... ght=#23414

has been over a month since we posted link... was feeling nostalgic.

HA!

"But I don't have a problem with him - he's not hostile like Gromnir and his 'I is a fucking idiot' style."

someday tt will learn that it is far better to have an idiotic style than to actually be an idiot.

...

lordy, what is we saying? is no way an idiot like tt would ever grasp such a concept.

btw, for one o' you arse-clowns to complain 'bout hostility is kinda amusing don't you think? thought you was all 'bout being "in your face," and "brutal honesty?"

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Mr. Teatime]

"But I don't have a problem with him - he's not hostile like Gromnir and his 'I is a fucking idiot' style."

someday tt will learn that it is far better to have an idiotic style than to actually be an idiot.

Combining both is the worst of all, though.

lordy, what is we saying?

Don't ask me.

 

[Gromnir]

oh come now tt... you is a joke everyplace but codex. heck, even newc were laughing at your abject stoopidity just the other day, and that might be one o' the few things newc and Gromnir has ever agreed 'bout. a noteworthy aberration.

your idiocy does prevent any kinda growth or recognition…and if you is just gonna do childish, “I know you are but what am I," responses, then you is wasting our time and ruining what little entertainment value your feeble struggles usually provide us with.

*sigh*

HA! Good Fun!

 

[protobob]

I know alot of you codexers really enjoy the flame war...

But I think your flame wars are really really dumb.

Grin.

 

[triCritical]

Explain Bio-Ware's success?

A bit of luck, shrewd business practice and hype!

 

[Jed]

oh come now tt... you is a joke everyplace but codex.

That's one up on you, Grommy--you're a joke everywhere.

Ha! Even better fun!

 

[suibhne]

Re: Time out

Ok, who is this 4too character and why is it so bad to call him a jackass? Should I be calling him an asshat instead?

Goddammit, Voodoo, go sit in the corner until you learn to reply to messages in the proper thread.

 

[mr. lamat]

it took eight threads, but there are actually some good/decent ideas being discussed on the bethesda boards now... the odd twelve year-old does still pop in with their 'ideas' (which apparently i'm NOT allowed to make fun of... three warnings already) but the discussion has become interesting.

 

[Gromnir]

oh come now tt... you is a joke everyplace but codex.

That's one up on you, Grommy--you're a joke everywhere.

Ha! Even better fun!

for chrissakes, this is your best attempts at scathing comebacks?

“yeah, well, you are an even bigger jerk, so there.”

*shakes head sadly*

am not surprised, but am honestly disappointed. 'least spaz and saint try and put a little effort into their insulting replies. might try emulating them rather than the 11 year old bully who no doubt punks you at school.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[ichpokhudezh]

http://pya.cc/pyaimg/img3/2004071703.jp

<offtopic>
as per Volourn's request I publish my PM here so Volourn will be able to respond publically

OMG So he should spam his opinion and thoguhts liek the rest of us do in order to get your respect? R00fles!

I gave my respect to him not because he attempted to earn it.
His action (I thought) and words earned it.
My interpretation was wrong, as it appears (it was not 'diving into the flamewar', after all). So I retracted my original statement, since time has proven it wrong.

Try not to be a clown.
</offtopic>

EDIT: PS. I am sorry for addressing Volourn as a male. Removed those references.