Community Bethesda developer on the FO fans reaction

[suibhne]

edit: There's also the post by Saint_Proverbius on this matter with much more elaborate and coherent rhetoric than mine. Check it out.

I'm guessing he didn't reply to my post because it's not what he came here looking for. He's looking for a flame war, and I didn't give it to him.

Your post should be made into an RPG Codex editorial on the matter. Not to lick your dirty shoes or anything, but it was the clearest presentation to date of the context for the negative fan reaction.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Must resist... commenting on... sexual implications...

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Jesus christ, Mech is it really that difficult to see? While you think it may be jumping to conclusions, Seven pointed out some things that were stated in their interviews. What have you come up with to back up your statements? Nuttin' boy. You got pwned big time, and you're still thirsty for more? Jesus Christ, and they call me dense.

 

[Human Shield]

Some additions:

A first-person view and real time combat isn't new ideas, it is a new game.

You couldn't modify Morrowind to have overhead view and turn based combat; hell, people hit tons of problems adding guns in.

 

[TFVanguard]

Well, this pretty much ends any hope of Bethesda working with any fans. Brilliant move.. might as well not make Fallout 3 now, since the name is going to be a detriment to sales now.

 

[Jed]

That would be my preference. Make up their own goddamned post apoc setting. If they're not going to make FO, why use the name?

 

[Sarkile]

I would've been happier if Fallout stayed in it's grave where it belongs.

 

[Ausir]

And now compare the FO3 & Bethesda thing to how Strategy First handles Jagged Alliance 3 stuff. The first sign of a JA3 was... a Jagged Alliance 3 board at the SFI forum. No press release, no boasting that they're going to make the best JA game evar. Just a forum. It went pretty much unnoticed for about a month, until I came across it, reported it at the Codex, and the word went all over the net about it. Then, Richard Therrien, one of the owners of SFI, started answering some JA3-related questions, clearly having a better idea of JA than BethSoft's PR guy has of FO. He even gave a list of things he considers essential for a Fallout game, and guess what? Most JA fans agreed, and were quite friendly. And it's not like it's because they're not "rabit Fallout fans" - many FO fans are JA fans as well, too. Only weeks later a press release came that announced MISTLand as the developer - and while many people in the forum expressed their concern with that particular developer being chosen, it wasn't anything near the FO3 flamewar. And guess what? They aren't giving any interviews yet, because they don't have much to say this early in the development process. Also, the press release came when the game was already in production, not when they bought the JA license.

By the way, imagine the Civilization fans' reaction if Sid Meier wanted to buy the Civ license, but was outbid by Blizzard, who'd of course say that they're great fans of Civilization. But then, they would say in an interview that they're not going to make a Master of Orion-style TB strategy, because that's not what they do well, and would go for an RTS based on WC3 engine.

 

[Shevek]

Ausir:

Well said.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

Bethesda has made some good games.

But they should not even touch Fallout.

I do not want to give them minor feedback .

I just do not want them touching Fallout.

Fallout is better dead than being remade into something else by Bethesda .

 

[errorcode]

first, consoles are not the horror story they once were to PC gamers. Most consoles are becoming mini-PCs anyway and the leaked specs on the Xbox 2 rivals most PC gamers home rigs. Most consoles also support USB keyboards and USB mouses. Consoles are not nearly as restrictive as they used to be.

This doesn't mean anything. What does it matter that consoles are becoming more PC like, if in turn, it's PC games that are becoming more console like?

the games industry has moved into a time when console and PC sales have to be conisdered by publishers before they greenlight a game. If a game can be ported, the powers that be will demand it be or they will not sign a contract to give devs money. With consoles becoming a larger and larger part of the game industry market this is going to continue to be the case.

By developing Fallout on console and PC, Bethesda will be able to get better funding for the project. Other companies have tanked on this, but bethesda did do a good job of porting Morrowind.

Granted, Morrowind wasn't a great game. I personally thought it was boring. But it did do real well commercially and the console version did stay remarkably true to it's PC counterpart.

I guess the easy answer to your response is that the lines between Console game and PC games is blurring, due to the experience of devs houses and the technology offered in the latest generations of consoles. PC games may be becoming more and more console like, but wouldn't that mean that console games are becoming more PC game like?

The medium is changing, as a whole. And developers have to keep up if they want a slice of the publishers money.

Sorry if i jumped around a bit, i'm alittle bit scattered today.

 

[Avin]

they already spoke if they will put ron "hellboy" perlman as narrator?

 

[Lasakon]

they already spoke if they will put ron "hellboy" perlman as narrator?

"Too early to say.".

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

By developing Fallout on console and PC, Bethesda will be able to get better funding for the project.

Bethesda will give Bethesda more money if Bethesda tells Bethesda they're planning on making a console version? You do know that Bethesda is a publishing house as well as a developer, right?

 

[errorcode]

By developing Fallout on console and PC, Bethesda will be able to get better funding for the project.

Bethesda will give Bethesda more money if Bethesda tells Bethesda they're planning on making a console version? You do know that Bethesda is a publishing house as well as a developer, right?

oh, actually i didn't. That does poke a hole in my arguement.

 

[voodoo1man]

And the shit really starts to boil

This whole shitstorm can be blamed on one thing and one thing only: bad PR. Unfortunately for Bethesda, they did absolutely everything wrong in this respect and have no one to blame but themselves. Walks with the Snails described the situation deftly, but I want to elaborate a bit more.

Edit: personal thought - I find it fascinating that so many people simply assume we're going to re-texture Morrowind, change a few lines of dialogue, and release a new game.

Well, this is a pretty obvious conclusion to draw when your PR man says things like "We're not going to go away from what it is that we do best. We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well."

Can someone explain why there is still a Fallout community and why it appears to be full of some of the most pessimistic, xenophobic, and generally fanatical people ever?

Maybe he should look up the definition of "xenophobic" in the dictionary. We're not racists, we're just rumor-mongers.

After calming down and actually reading the thread, I have to say I don't care about perspective, and I don't care about the combat system

This is exactly what gets people pissed off. For a while now, we've been saying that the most important things about Fallout is the perspective and combat system (they're like yin and yang!). The developers come out and say they don't care about either, then complain when the fans criticize them on this. What is wrong with this picture?

It was a business anouncment. [sic] They're in fucking pre-production. It's not their fault some fans get pissed off over rediculous [sic] things like this. They aren't talking now, period. The game sites contacted them! The PR guy does his job and gives vague answers to questions he can't answer yet. Then a dev comes out and said "It's all 100% speculation, we don't have anything decided". And you (whatever fans) throw a shit storm.
The pessimism, the insults, the conslusion jumping is so fucking rediculous. [sic]

If they aren't talking, how come Bethesda staff has been giving 3 interviews a day for the past two days? They throw out vague answers and evade the interviewer's questions, then expect people not to gossip? How naive can these guys be?

But it gets worse! Although my mother never said it, I've heard it's popular advice to say nothing at all when you have nothing nice to say. Instead of taking the rumor-mongering as a clue and keeping quiet, the developers actually come out and insult the fan community without even attempting to allay any of their concerns. Witness:

I stopped reading RPG codex because it made my head hurt.

Yeah, you'd think the Gamespot interview would've calmed them down some, but now they're more angry than ever.

Based on the fact that I had to keep this secret, you can trust that even if I knew any details on the project, I wouldn't really be able to talk about them.

Apparently, these guys are under the impression that saying things like "the game will be good, but we can't talk about anything" will be enough to satisfy everybody!

And start cataloging all the great stuff in FO that may or may not make the cut, when the new team starts.

That's what we've been trying to do, but unfortunately the thread got hijacked by jackasses like you.

I'm sure Bethesda will listen to some of what you guys say if the words "No Talent Ass Clowns" or "it better be better than MW" are not included in every sentance.

The internet is a lot like bathroom graffiti: anonymous and dirty. RPG Codex earned it's reputation for a good reason, and just because this place has some vandals is not a good excuse for Bethesda to ignore what the people here have to say.

Mabye you won't like what they make Fallout into. However, if whatever game they make is successful there is probably a greater chance that the game you down want to be made, will eventually be made.

I think what we're all afraid of is the worst case scenario: Fallout 3 flops, and the license is buried by Bethesda until their bankruptcy (after all, they wouldn't want to make it seem that some other developer can succeed wildly where they failed, and in this case the license will probably be worth so much less than what they spent on acquiring and developing it that it wouldn't make sense to sell it anyway).

 

[errorcode]

"Maybe he should look up the definition of "xenophobic" in the dictionary. We're not racists, we're just rumor-mongers."

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "zen-&-'fO-bE-&, "zEn-
Function: noun
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

I think the second part kinda fits some of the Fallout community. They just don't seem willing to even consider something different or strange for there idea of a fallout game.

 

[Duodenum]

On the other hand, there's no such thing as bad publicity. For better or worse, the word has spread. Hell, even SLASHDOT had a long thread about it. I don't think Bethesda Softworks had EVER been mentioned on Slashdot before.

But now people are talking. Some angrily. Some with hope. Some wondering what the fuss is all about.

In a few weeks (or maybe even sooner) the initial furor will die down, and for the most part people will return to normal. Then, in a year, 6 months, 2 years, or whenever Bethesda is able to unveil the game for REAL, with CONCRETE info, screen shots, descriptions of game features, etc., people will not be asking "Who's Bethesda".

In fact, if the company makes unrelated announcements in the intervening months, it may even pique the attention of people who never would have paid attention to a BethSoft announcement before. "Oh yeah, they're the people doing Fallout 3. Wonder what this is all about?"

For better or worse, Bethesda has increased its mindshare in the gaming community.

 

[Eldar]

I used to think that bad publicity didn't exist. However, when FO:BoS was nearing completion, management at Interplay was concerned about the Fallout Community. I don't believe for a second that anyone wants the Fallout community to come out in force against them. On the other hand, it seems to me that the management at Bethesda has already decided that there's nothing they can do to prevent the Fallout community from coming out against them and have, as a result, decided to take the community head on rather than take it lying down. Personally, I think it's a bad strategy.

When FO:BoS was nearing completion, I heard the phrase "fight fire with fire." It sounded stupid to me then. It sounds stupid now. Frankly, I think they'd be better off taking it lying down than coming out swinging.

For example, I hear folks say that developers will ignore flaming or inflammatory remarks. Really? Ignoring a remark means making no response to it. You can't say that you'll ignore the other guy’s remarks and then comment on them.

I've given up on seeing the exact version of Fallout that I wanted. I didn't really know what I wanted anyhow. Sure, I'd like a top down, party based game that uses the SPECIAL system. No doubt about it. Still, I'm just not enough of a die-hard fan to be up in arms about it.

Nevertheless, as St. P stated, Bethesda didn't help itself. The community is a large group of like minded folks. It's not a large group of drones taking orders from an all-powerful entity at the top. Furthermore, if I were running a page like the Codex or NMA, I would spit in the face of the first person who tried to make a deal with me using those sweet, insidious words of old... "this will help us make the game you really want." The very thought is galling.

I respect what Feargus wrote in his post. I really do. ...But the Fallout community has heard the hollow words of reassurance before. Hollow.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Re: And the shit really starts to boil

And start cataloging all the great stuff in FO that may or may not make the cut, when the new team starts.

That's what we've been trying to do, but unfortunately the thread got hijacked by jackasses like you.

You better pray you're not talking about 4too there boy... It's his quote from page 1 of this thread all right, but there are no posts by 4too in that thread you linked. 4too doesn't make jackass posts. You better make it clear quick smart who you're talking about or otherwise you best prepare for life with a new arsehole, torn open by yours truly.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"Maybe he should look up the definition of "xenophobic" in the dictionary. We're not racists, we're just rumor-mongers."

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "zen-&-'fO-bE-&, "zEn-
Function: noun
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

I think the second part kinda fits some of the Fallout community. They just don't seem willing to even consider something different or strange for there idea of a fallout game.

There's nothing strange or foreign about Bethesda's work. In fact, we've all seen it and played it, and we recognise that it's not Fallout. Can Bethesda make Fallout 3 like Fallout? Mayhaps, but in the 18 years they've been around, they haven't made anything like Fallout. Even though they're "huge fans" of Fallout, they didn't really borrow anything from Fallout in a way that's parallel or even a step up from the venerable classic.

 

[suibhne]

... in the 18 years they've been around, they haven't made anything like Fallout.

And the BethSoft fanboys telling us to give 'em a chance seem to conveniently ignore the fact that BethSoft has already indicated, in interviews, that they're not interested in dramatically expanding the range of "what they do well."

For the cognitive cripples among us, it goes like this:

1. BethSoft has never made anything even remotely like Fallout.
2. BethSoft has indicated that, in FO3 design and development, they intend to stick with "what they do well."

It's hard to see that as worthy of faith.

 

[Briosafreak]

Re: And the shit really starts to boil

And start cataloging all the great stuff in FO that may or may not make the cut, when the new team starts.

That's what we've been trying to do, but unfortunately the thread got hijacked by jackasses like you.

You better pray you're not talking about 4too there boy... It's his quote from page 1 of this thread all right, but there are no posts by 4too in that thread you linked. 4too doesn't make jackass posts. You better make it clear quick smart who you're talking about or otherwise you best prepare for life with a new arsehole, torn open by yours truly.

I really hope you aren`t calling 4Too a jackass voodoo1man. And i`m serious about this.

 

[ichpokhudezh]

I respect what Feargus wrote in his post. I really do. ...But the Fallout community has heard the hollow words of reassurance before. Hollow.

Seeing this reminded me of something I have to do.
I retract my 'respect' comment since Feargus just dropped a load and did not stay for the war.
I am a big proponent of not putting your jewels anywhere you wouldn't be able to or have no intent to protect them.

 

[Volourn]

OMG So he should spam his opinion and thoguhts liek the rest of us do in order to get your respect? R00fles!