Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[felipepepe]

Not complexity alone, the execution in SS2 is great, the places and dialogs are interesting and really give out the atmosphere of a cruise ship being deserted.... BS has that retarded art style & glossy UE look, with very few interesting areas that feel more like a bad horror themepark than an once-glorious city. I consider the atmosphere the biggest failing n BS.

 

[Infinitron]

Not complexity alone, the execution in SS2 is great, the places and dialogs are interesting and really give out the atmosphere of a cruise ship being deserted.... BS has that retarded art style & glossy UE look, with very few interesting areas that feel more like a bad horror themepark than an once-glorious city. I consider the atmosphere the biggest failing n BS.

I definitely agree, but I don't think it's the main reason why Bioshock was considered a disappointment. People were expecting a game with an RPG level of mechanical complexity and instead they got a shooter. The theme park atmosphere was just adding insult to injury.

 

[Angthoron]

Way I see it (and this is why I ended up disliking BS), the problem isn't that it's a shooter, and that it lacks deep RPG elements. I wasn't expecting those. Expecting such things in the world of today, in a mainstream title? You have to be delusional. Sure, those do crop up occasionally, but expecting one? Nah.

Problem is, it sets things up and never follows on them. It sets up a microcosm, and when you are in it, it's dead. You just got yourself a beautiful aquarium full of fish corpses, bub. Awesome, ainnit? All this pseudophilosophical stuff, what is it good for when there's one person monologuing it to you? What is all this nonsense about transcendence, when you're governed by a magic word? What's the fucking point? It's not even a trainwreck, those at least keep your eyes locked on it, this is someone falling off a ladder. Little Sisters, what's the point, when in the end what you do with them amounts to HYPERBAD ending and HYPERBLAND ending?

Basically, it's all setup without payoff, and the only actual thing that's close to one is a one premature climaxing that could basically end the game. After Ryan's death, the game turns to predictable shit and a boring half-QTE endvillain, as well as forced timed sections, limited sections and an escort mission. This is fucking endgame, the player should be ripping shit, facing stronger enemies and ripping them apart as well, what the fuck am I looking at, why was I stronger at 4th level than I'm at 2nd to last? Who made this shit up? FUCK! Escorting NPC? FUCK YOU GAME.

Edit: Also, I thought becoming a Big Daddy was an irreversible process, and that suit weighs a ton, how am I moving in it? Hello, a little consistency would be nice?

 

[Infinitron]

Way I see it (and this is why I ended up disliking BS), the problem isn't that it's a shooter, and that it lacks deep RPG elements. I wasn't expecting those. Expecting such things in the world of today, in a mainstream title? You have to be delusional. Sure, those do crop up occasionally, but expecting one? Nah.

Bioshock didn't come out today, though. I didn't know gaming would go full derp back in 2007. (yeah, I know - I had not played Oblivion nor read about it back then)

 

[Angthoron]

Way I see it (and this is why I ended up disliking BS), the problem isn't that it's a shooter, and that it lacks deep RPG elements. I wasn't expecting those. Expecting such things in the world of today, in a mainstream title? You have to be delusional. Sure, those do crop up occasionally, but expecting one? Nah.

Bioshock didn't come out today, though. I didn't know gaming would go full derp back in 2007. (yeah, I know - I had not played Oblivion nor read about it back then)

And that's why you're a 2011 newfag and I'm a 2007 intellectual powerhouse.*

Seriously though, I dunno, never had much complex expectations from BioShock. It didn't shout "I AM COMPLEX!" at me at any point. It did try to sell itself as pseudo-intellectual though, and I kinda bought in on that. Sadly, it just completely falls apart at Ryan's death, and even before that, it's standing on a very shaky foundation.

But that's the story side I suppose. Gameplay... Well. Lack of enemy variety, fairly weak guns (best weapon being that overpowered frozen pipe wrench)... Some use of plasmids was quite fun, but the levels were too small and the set pieces were generally too prescripted to do something really entertaining. I had more fun with noclip-spamming Skaarj onto a Titan's head in Unreal, and then watching them duke it out.


*I am not serious.

 

[Infinitron]

Seriously though, I dunno, never had much complex expectations from BioShock. It didn't shout "I AM COMPLEX!" at me at any point.

Well, it did claim to be a System Shock 2 spiritual successor. That entails a certain measure of complexity. SS2 is no more intellectual than Bioshock, but it gives you enough moving bits to play around with that it didn't matter.

I guess it depends on expectations. You saw Bioshock as a bad atmospheric shooter. I saw it as a bad SS2 successor. In any case, it was pretty bad.

 

[Menckenstein]

The only good thing about Bioshock was the intro.
Other features:
-no AI
-no level design
-no challenge or difficulty which killed any atmosphere the game might have had
-piss poor shooting mechanics
-laughable "rpg elements"

The funniest thing is that Ken Levine spoke how EA was evil and wouldn't let them do a proper SS3, saying they just wanted another dumb shooter with a big boss at the end which is exactly what Bioshock was.

 

[Angthoron]

You saw Bioshock as a bad atmospheric shooter. I saw it as a bad SS2 successor.

It was an awful SS2 successor. It's just that I've already had a chance to witness a few "spiritual successors" by that time, and I knew to downtone my expectations. To be honest, it misses just about every note from the SS2 repertoire - the world isn't dangerous, the ammo isn't scarce, the monsters aren't nearly anywhere as fascinating. Sure, one could say that it's "nostalgia goggles", but I should point out that I started playing SS2 with negative expectations, because there were morans that would claim that it's more diverse than mon amor, Unreal. How dare they? And then I tried and I was like, "Oh, hey, whoa! Huh, this is awesome, but I'll just tell them that it's passable, because fuck those pretenders". So yeah, it's not fucking nostalgia goggles.

Oh, and I still don't like some of the parts of SS2, there's occasionally way too much backtracking and respawning, Hydroponics and Cargo Bay monkies, I'm looking at you.

 

[DraQ]

Sure, but Bioshock did that too. The difference? Less complexity across the board.

See the previous point.

I haven't written it just for lulz, you know.

 

[Infinitron]

Sure, but Bioshock did that too. The difference? Less complexity across the board.

See the previous point.

I haven't written it just for lulz, you know.

See my back-and-forth with Angthoron.

 

[Angthoron]

Oh, one more thing. There's a significant other difference between SS2 and BS.

In SS2, the story services the game. The characters, they're there to add to the atmosphere. They're the spice.
In BS, the story IS the game. The characters are central to the experience, their memories, their stories, their opinions - not just a side-dish of sauce, no, they're the actual main course.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh, one more thing. There's a significant other difference between SS2 and BS.

In SS2, the story services the game. The characters, they're there to add to the atmosphere. They're the spice.
In BS, the story IS the game. The characters are central to the experience, their memories, their stories, their opinions - not just a side-dish of sauce, no, they're the actual main course.

Pretty much my point - with less complexity of systems, the story takes center stage by default.

 

[Morgoth]

After some contemplation, I decided that this game will be shit.

 

[sea]

More importantly, when are you going to continue your series on how Bioshock 2 is better than the first game?

Maybe later this week, I wrote something else today.

Edit: Also, I thought becoming a Big Daddy was an irreversible process, and that suit weighs a ton, how am I moving in it? Hello, a little consistency would be nice?

I also like the whole "well, Fontaine is behind a door, and the door only opens for Big Daddies!" Has anyone fucking heard of explosives before? Or an override switch? Or anything that isn't "searching through a huge rat maze to find tools for the purpose of mutilating yourself"? Yet another case of BioShock going for aesthetic appeal (in this case the "cool shit" of turning yourself into a big Daddy) over, you know, stuff that makes sense.

 

[DraQ]

Pretty much my point - with less complexity of systems, the story takes center stage by default.

I guess games like Go or Tetris didn't get the memo.

 

[RPGMaster]

“I wanted the uninformed, the person who doesn’t read IGN… to pick up the box and say, okay, this looks kind of cool, let me turn it over. Oh, a flying city. Look at this girl, Elizabeth on the back. Look at that creature. And start to read about it, start to think about it.”

I wanted the uninformed, the person who doesn’t read IGN

 

[Jaesun]

This isn't a Morgoth DAY ONE PURCHASE?? :gasp:

 

[Infinitron]

Pretty much my point - with less complexity of systems, the story takes center stage by default.

I guess games like Go or Tetris didn't get the memo.

Kind of hard for a story to take center stage when there is no story. Besides, Go is complex. (and Tetris is basically a kind of casual game)

 

[DraQ]

Kind of hard for a story to take center stage when there is no story.

Case in point.

Besides, Go is complex.

Go *parties* are complex. Go *strategies* are complex.

Go itself is about as simple as it can get while still being a game.

I started playing SS2 with negative expectations, because there were morans that would claim that it's more diverse than mon amor, Unreal. How dare they?

 

[Angthoron]

I started playing SS2 with negative expectations, because there were morans that would claim that it's more diverse than mon amor, Unreal. How dare they?

For the record, they were morons with shitty tastes in gaming. It was just a case of a broken clock being right twice a day.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

DraQ, my brother in potato, you are surely going off the deep edge of Asperger's in this thread. First, SS2's story is bad because something unbelievable happens before it begins (as opposed to hivemind aliens with psychic powers); now you're trying to make a point by comparing the gameplay of a first person, single player video game with a classical 1v1 boardgame. I implore you, stop now, lest the abyss gazes back and you find yourself becoming a disciple of hiver.

On a related note, Bioshock is not a spiritual successor to SS2 in any way, shape, or form. Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage. Frankly, Bioshock has much more in common with, say, Fallout 3, even down to the shitty gunplay.

 

[Angthoron]

Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

This is true.

 

[evdk]

Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

This is true.

It suffered the same problem as BS though - during the time I spent playing it I was mostly just lamenting how all those features were better implemented in SS2. It didn't survive the collision with my nostalgia goggles.

 

[Angthoron]

Honestly, Dead Space is a better spiritual successor, or at least a more successful homage.

This is true.

It suffered the same problem as BS though - during the time I spent playing it I was mostly just lamenting how all those features were better implemented in SS2. It didn't survive the collision with my nostalgia goggles.

And this is also true. It was closer to SS2 than BS was though.

 

[evdk]

And this is also true. It was closer to SS2 than BS was though.

That just made the sucking all the more painful to endure.