Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[Tagaziel]

Yes. You are.

 

[AN4RCHID]

So I'm guessing you enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite?

 

[circ]

Your mom is so fat that I don't remember the rest.

 

[DalekFlay]

So I'm guessing you enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite?

Finding Blow to be pretentious and superior when he only made one game has nothing to do with whether Infinite is a good game or not.

 

[Tagaziel]

So I'm guessing you enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite?

Loved the story, gameplay was acceptable, really liked Columbia as a setting. I was pretty skeptical about the game, given Levine's subpar work on BioShock (fake binary morality, stripped down features, plot outline ripped off from System Shock 2). Maybe it helped that I didn't follow the game closely and played it without reading previews and watching developer diaries.

Of course, liking a mainstream game doesn't make me part of the cool crowd. Good thing I don't care about fitting in.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Eh, different strokes. As someone who hated the game, it's just nice to see that I'm not completely alone in my opinion (this thread, Errant Signal, Blow's comments).

 

[Tagaziel]

There's nothing wrong with disliking a game (hate is too strong a word, unless you're talking about Ayn Rand's literary vomit). I like it, you dislike it, hey, at least there's something to talk about.

It's usually a matter of tastes, though sometimes we might confuse our own shortcomings with those of the thing we criticize. For example, I am not a poetic person. I don't understand poetry, I don't comprehend how you can interpret it, and I can't write poetry if my life depended on it. I'm a man of prose, and for that very reason, I avoid commenting on poetry and related topics, simply because I neither understand nor enjoy them. Same reason why I wouldn't offer my input on racing, fighting, or simulator games.

 

[dnf]

He's a pretentious dick. He's also right 99% of the time about games.

Too bad his game is utter shit. He should also, criticize the press for praising his game

 

[dnf]

Also, what happened to emotional decishunz in BI? No more lil sisters to harvest?

 

[AN4RCHID]

Oh I hated it. Fucking loathed it. It's like every modern trend that pisses me off crammed into a single package.

I don't think I'm just biased against this type of game. I liked The Darkness and Dishonored a lot. I liked Bioshock 1 & 2 better than this one. It's just the design philosophy that gets me here. Like it has to be full of shooting so it's sufficiently gamey, but the player needs to be railroaded through the shooting segments ASAP to get to the 'good' part - the non-interactive story bits. So there's never ever a chance for the player to actually have any freedom. And then because they don't want the flow of the story messed up, dying has no consequence and resources all regenerate when you need them, so there's never any tension either - you don't even have the freedom to fuck up. It's such a scripted experience I just felt like I was following Ken Levine's orders the entire time. The whole thing just felt really insulting and disrespectful of my intelligence, gaming literacy, and time.

 

[Tagaziel]

Well, you can always raise the same points against System Shock 2 and pretty much any other game that isn't a non-linear game with C&C. The no-fuck-up thing was present ever since System Shock and its regeneration chambers, which were little more than a slap on the wrist. Infinite in 1999 mode does a fine job of limiting resources and the number of times you can come back from the dead.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Just because a game is linear doesn't mean there can't be any freedom. Halo is a linear cinematic FPS, but encounters are big complicated setpieces that can go any number of ways. Even linear shooters with more of a corridor structure, like Half-Life or System Shock 2 have player decisions in the form of resource management. Resources are basically illusions in Infinite, because Elizabeth "finds" whatever you need. There's just very little 'game' here compared to SS2. You can't really play well since getting spammed by enemy fire is unavoidable, and you can't really play poorly since failure has no consequence. It's all just kind of "meh" and you keep progressing through the game at about the same pace no matter what.

Consider the fact that Ken Levine's biggest innovation in this game was literally putting the player on rails.

 

[aris]

Granted, BI:I is undoubtedly lacking in exploration with respect to bioshock, the difference isn't huge. in BI:I the levels are much more open and wide, wider corridors, if you will. Bioshock had a maze of tiny corridors, which gives the illusion of more exploration options, but doesn't really provide it. That being said, as I said, bioshock 1 does have more exploration. But BI:I has plenty of rewards for those who explore every level thouroughly.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

So it isn't that bad because the game's exploration is only slightly worse than the already shallow and unrewarding exploration in that earlier game.

 

[DalekFlay]

Granted, BI:I is undoubtedly lacking in exploration with respect to bioshock, the difference isn't huge. in BI:I the levels are much more open and wide, wider corridors, if you will. Bioshock had a maze of tiny corridors, which gives the illusion of more exploration options, but doesn't really provide it. That being said, as I said, bioshock 1 does have more exploration. But BI:I has plenty of rewards for those who explore every level thouroughly.

No, no, no... Bioshock and Bioshock 2 were a LOT less linear. Yes they were batches of rooms underwater, but they were big areas with a lot of different routes to get where you wanted to go, and often times there were different goals at one time. While not an open world it was very different from the tunnel Bioshock Infinite is (other than perhaps one or two sections like Emporia at the end).

Infinite does a nice job of having some large arenas for combat though, similar to Halo.

 

[Tagaziel]

Fighting can be a bitch, though. Especially when Handymen come into play. Loved the challenge.

 

[Declinator]

The no-fuck-up thing was present ever since System Shock and its regeneration chambers, which were little more than a slap on the wrist. Infinite in 1999 mode does a fine job of limiting resources and the number of times you can come back from the dead.

The thing about SS regen chambers was that you had to activate them and there was only one per floor. It was permadeath if you hadn't activated it and I remember quite fondly the mad dashes to activate them. Their placement and the fact that some monsters respawn made them quite a bit less convenient compared to the Infinite ones (which seem to regenerate the player pretty much right at the thick of things).

Fighting can be a bitch, though. Especially when Handymen come into play. Loved the challenge.

The Handymen were somewhat difficulty but they really seemed like a cheap version of Big Daddies.

 

[Azarkon]

Is linear = bad? For RPGs, exploration is rewarding because you progress your character in the process. I fail to see the reward of exploring side tunnels in a FPS game. An irritating experience the times I've done it. Take the Deep Roads in Dragon Age, for example, and that was a RPG...

 

[Infinitron]

Yahtzee: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid...source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=videos

 

[DalekFlay]

Is linear = bad?

There's a difference between linear and tunnel. Some of my favorite shooters are linear, like FEAR for example, but they do a decent job of having larger areas with different points of entry, which makes combat and exploration more fun. Infinite is mostly a straight line, which is what disappointed me.

 

[Toffeli]

Yahtzee: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid...source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=videos

Wanted to turn it off 3 times or so in the first minute.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Yahtzee: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid...source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=videos

:declining: Better than Bioshock 1 because of the skyhooks?

Yahtzee can pick apart bad plot and silly video game cliches, but he never did have a head for game design.

 

[Tagaziel]

The thing about SS regen chambers was that you had to activate them and there was only one per floor. It was permadeath if you hadn't activated it and I remember quite fondly the mad dashes to activate them. Their placement and the fact that some monsters respawn made them quite a bit less convenient compared to the Infinite ones (which seem to regenerate the player pretty much right at the thick of things).

That's why the only way for old hats to play the game is, well, 1999 mode. The number of respawns is limited. It costs 100$ each time you have to respawn, which is a quick way to burn through your cash reserves. I killed the Vox Handyman with half my health gone and $7 in my pocket. Best boss fight I had in a while.

The Handymen were somewhat difficulty but they really seemed like a cheap version of Big Daddies.

Big Daddies couldn't jump and follow you everywhere you go to smack you about. You also had the benefit of being able to set up before you tackle them. No such luxury here.

 

[Azarkon]

Is linear = bad?

There's a difference between linear and tunnel. Some of my favorite shooters are linear, like FEAR for example, but they do a decent job of having larger areas with different points of entry, which makes combat and exploration more fun. Infinite is mostly a straight line, which is what disappointed me.

There's a few set battles in Infinite where you do get that expansive feeling. I remember one towards the beginning where several airships drop enemies down and you're given the whole level, which had multiple ledges, entrances, places to hide, ambush, etc. The bigger issue is the enemy AI, which knows instantly where you are when you start shooting, thereby giving no tactical advantage to flanking them, taking pot shots from hidden places, etc.

 

[sea]

Here's an e-mail I sent to one of my co-workers just now on the subject of BioShock Infinite. I figured it was relevant.

Playing now, I got past Shantytown and am at the Bull's Den or whatever it's called. This story is fucking stupid.

Let's think about this for one second.

1. We need to leave Columbia
2. To do this we procure an airship
3. Because of Booker's incompetence we get the airship stolen by the Vox
4. The Vox say we'll get the airship if we give them weapons for their uprising
5. We go to Fink Industries to get the weapons from a gunsmith
6. On the way, Fink tries to "employ" us
7. After learning that the gunsmith was imprisoned by Fink (who has a private jail because he's a big ol' meanie or something), we go to Fink's club to get the gunsmith out
8. During this time Fink sends one, two, three waves of dudes at us and says that he wants us to become his head of security after we butcher them all (??????????)
9. We eventually reach the gunsmith's cell and find that he is dead
10. The two travelers appear out of nowhere and give us a hint that we can see into an alternate universe
11. We step into the alternate universe and find that the gunsmith isn't dead
12. We leave and fight our way past respawned waves of police (???????) to get to the gunsmith
13. In the gunsmith's office we find in this reality he is "crazy" or something because he's suffering from interdimensional herpes
14. We learn from his wife his tools were stolen by the police, so we go to Shantytown to get them back because we deduce this might solve his herpes problem (?????????)
15. Inside Shantytown we slaughter yet more police officers who inexplicably recognize and try to kill Booker based on their callouts during combat, even though he shouldn't be in this universe and thus they shouldn't know who he is

Why am I even playing this game? Is there even a story here? What am I doing? Why? What's going on? Why are we taking part in this pointlessly convoluted dimension-hopping crap in order to procure tools for a gunsmith so he can make guns so we can get our airship back so we can leave? Do you realize how pointless and drawn-out this all is? Wait, why didn't we just, like... find another airship? Or better yet, go back the way we came to Columbia in the first place? And don't tell me it doesn't work, and there's no other way back, because we didn't even try to see if it was possible or have a dialogue line to explain it's not.

Wait, why is Elizabeth suddenly suffering from Emo Teen Girl Syndrome and crying about how we must think she's a freak in a contrived effort to elicit sympathy for her character? Wait, she knows the Songbird? She speaks to it? Wait, what the hell is the Songbird anyway? Why is this apparently important "character" in the story (or at least backstory) suddenly mentioned out of nowhere? So is it like the final boss? Or is Elizabeth really friends with it? Does it talk to Elizabeth? Does it cuddle her? Why would she cuddle a giant bird? How does it even get into her tower? It's too big!

oh fuck my brain just died

Oh, and screw the skyhooks/rails. Good idea that is used all of 5 times in the entire game and most of them they're nothing more than slightly more flexible jump pads that let you get between islands in an AWESOME BRO kinda way. The rest of the times they're just used in cutscenes. What a waste.