Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[ohWOW]

I'm butthurt because people don't like games I like

Take your shit straight.

 

[Declinator]

I'm butthurt because people don't like games I like

Take your shit straight.

This hardly sounds like butthurt:

Actually, that's your opinion. I know it's hard to comprehend, your opinion not being an objective fact, and other people not sharing it.

Absolutely terrible.

That the game is bad is not an objective fact is what he is saying and I agree. If one argues that it's objectively bad then bring out the facts that say it is.

You can say that the game is objectively less complex gameplay-wise than, say, System Shock 2.

You can say that the game is objectively more linear than System Shock 2.

And probably there are even more objective signs of Codex defined decline but the fact that the game is less complex and more linear does not necessarily mean it is worse. Sometimes more complexity simply means redundancy and sometimes people simply don't like exploring or not knowing where to go.

I think that Infinite is pretty much on level with Bioshock 1, is worse than SS1, and is so much worse than SS2 that it's not really fit to scrape the mud off SS2's boots. However, this does not mean that I think that SS2 is necessarily objectively the better game as this is very much my subjective opinion.

 

[ohWOW]

That the game is good is not an objective fact.

Actually, it's shit, and that's a fact.

 

[Declinator]

That the game is good is not an objective fact.

Actually, it's shit, and that's a fact.

And you're wrong, and that's a fact. Luckily I apparently don't need to say anything else to prove it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Why, thank you. Thank you for proving that being on the Codex for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you have good taste.

Or that the best way to fit in is to find everything mainstream and over-criticize the fuck out of it to appear .

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Well, finished the game (1999 mode), and the main motivation was to see the ending for myself before being spoiled... Anyway, I felt this game less boring than the first bioshock, visuals are nice, shooting sections and enemy variation provided some fun, even if repetitive.

But this game has a story full of plot holes and... oh, there's lot's of realities and if you a plot hole... it's not because the game complicates the shit story of star trek reboot to make you think there's no plot hole and in fact it'syou who didn't paid attention.

But then I just check some sites where people are dissecting the ending and some explanatios for the plot hole are even shittier.

So, elizabeth has powers because her fucking little finger stays in another reality? lame.

You are one of the dewitts that die at the end for atonement... but what does that acomplish, since there are a lot of other dewitts out there full of guilt, and comstocks, and columbias and raptures?

The game says that he is supposed to be killed before making a choice... but in universe timeline? why one Booker DeWited represent all of them? a booker that already made that fucking choice in the first place? ha-ha. Lame.

 

[DalekFlay]

You are one of the dewitts that die at the end for atonement... but what does that acomplish, since there are a lot of other dewitts out there full of guilt, and comstocks, and columbias and raptures?

The game says that he is supposed to be killed before making a choice... but in universe timeline? why one Booker DeWited represent all of them? a booker that already made that fucking choice in the first place? ha-ha. Lame.

The choice to become Comstock creates all the Comstock realities. Killing him before he makes that choice prevents all Comstock realities.

 

[Declinator]

You are one of the dewitts that die at the end for atonement... but what does that acomplish, since there are a lot of other dewitts out there full of guilt, and comstocks, and columbias and raptures?

The game says that he is supposed to be killed before making a choice... but in universe timeline? why one Booker DeWited represent all of them? a booker that already made that fucking choice in the first place? ha-ha. Lame.

The choice to become Comstock creates all the Comstock realities. Killing him before he makes that choice prevents all Comstock realities.

There is a problem with this too. That should destroy all possible branches after choosing to become Comstock but it would not destroy earlier branches that could also lead to a similar choice.

For example, Booker chose to eat cake before becoming Comstock but what about the branch where he ate a muffin instead and THEN became Comstock. This branch would still exist. The only branch they destroyed would be the one where he ate cake and then became Comstock.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

You are one of the dewitts that die at the end for atonement... but what does that acomplish, since there are a lot of other dewitts out there full of guilt, and comstocks, and columbias and raptures?

The game says that he is supposed to be killed before making a choice... but in universe timeline? why one Booker DeWited represent all of them? a booker that already made that fucking choice in the first place? ha-ha. Lame.

The choice to become Comstock creates all the Comstock realities. Killing him before he makes that choice prevents all Comstock realities.

The booker she kills is the one that already rejected and brought back years from the future. a booker that already mady that choice. The booker I was playing. Or did she just brought back the memories of future dewitt to the young arrow in the knee booker?

 

[Tagaziel]

The problem is that the game doesn't explain the many-world interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Basically, every event is a branch with two or more results. The baptism of Comstock is the prerequisite for all realities in which Columbia exists. It triggers the appearance of Elizabeth and ultimately the scorching of the world by Columbia in millions of realities. Elizabeth's actions remove the possibility of Comstock accepting baptism. Every reality in which Booker accepted baptism disappears as the propability of him accepting it is 0 (he dies moments before), while the probability of Booker rejecting it is set to 1 across realities.

This makes the problem of incoming realities moot, as every Booker will always choose to reject the baptism (in other words, man up and face his life, rather than run from it).

 

[Darth Slaughter]

Isn't there a possibility of comstock robbing a different, random girl, or a boy instead, thus elizabeth never exists in a comstock reality?

 

[Tagaziel]

Comstock would have to exist in the first place for that.

I also think he needed a daughter with his genes, the seed of the prophet.

(the emphasis on seed was creepy)

 

[ohWOW]

Why, thank you. Thank you for proving that being on the Codex for 5 years doesn't necessarily mean you have good taste.

Or that the best way to fit in is to find everything mainstream and over-criticize the fuck out of it to appear .

says oblivion&skyrim lover

 

[Zewp]

Or that the best way to fit in is to find everything mainstream and over-criticize the fuck out of it to appear .

Hey, if I was desperate to fit in I'd just bash ME3 and post Thief screenshots in the Screenshot thread. It's a bit of a pointless exercise to bash a game to 'fit in.' But hey, if that's how you wanna look at it, go ahead.

Still doesn't change the fact that the only overwhelming thing about B:I is how underwhelming everything about it is.

 

[DalekFlay]

says oblivion&skyrim lover

I love how you assume I like Oblivion because I enjoyed Skyrim to some extent. That makes so much sense.

Oblivion is excrement.

 

[DalekFlay]

Hey, if I was desperate to fit in I'd just bash ME3 and post Thief screenshots in the Screenshot thread. It's a bit of a pointless exercise to bash a game to 'fit in.' But hey, if that's how you wanna look at it, go ahead.

Still doesn't change the fact that the only overwhelming thing about B:I is how underwhelming everything about it is.

I actually agree it's underwhelming. It's the exaggerated "OMG THIS IS THE WORST SHIT EVER" stuff that comes off as trying way too hard.

 

[ohWOW]

says oblivion&skyrim lover

I love how you assume I like Oblivion because I enjoyed Skyrim to some extent. That makes so much sense.

Oblivion is excrement.

You said it for yourself: Oblivion has deep and subtle lore. Then you say it's shit. A conclusion is you like shit.
Infinite shit is shit. You like it.

No that I'm shocked.

 

[Azarkon]

The problem is that the game doesn't explain the many-world interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Basically, every event is a branch with two or more results. The baptism of Comstock is the prerequisite for all realities in which Columbia exists. It triggers the appearance of Elizabeth and ultimately the scorching of the world by Columbia in millions of realities. Elizabeth's actions remove the possibility of Comstock accepting baptism. Every reality in which Booker accepted baptism disappears as the propability of him accepting it is 0 (he dies moments before), while the probability of Booker rejecting it is set to 1 across realities.

This makes the problem of incoming realities moot, as every Booker will always choose to reject the baptism (in other words, man up and face his life, rather than run from it).

There's no need to explain it.

All you need to understand is that Elizabeth is/becomes God. Everything else follows.

The quote from the beginning of the game?

Elizabeth: are you afraid of God?
Booker: No, but I'm afraid of you.

The story is ultimately about the redemption of a man, but in classic Ken Levine style, you don't have a choice in the matter.

 

[DalekFlay]

You said it for yourself: Oblivion has deep and subtle lore.

Where did I say that? I might have said that about the TES series, but probably not Oblivion itself.

Also lore != good game, dummy.

 

[ohWOW]

You said it about Oblivion's rooftops in its cities. That the cultural influences and lore is subtly implemented, because, look, this roof tiles are slightly different colour, thus it's totally a dunmer city by culture. And kept defending this retarded idea.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So, those that bought it day one purchase, are you disappointed?

 

[HanoverF]

The problem is that the game doesn't explain the many-world interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Basically, every event is a branch with two or more results. The baptism of Comstock is the prerequisite for all realities in which Columbia exists. It triggers the appearance of Elizabeth and ultimately the scorching of the world by Columbia in millions of realities. Elizabeth's actions remove the possibility of Comstock accepting baptism. Every reality in which Booker accepted baptism disappears as the propability of him accepting it is 0 (he dies moments before), while the probability of Booker rejecting it is set to 1 across realities.

This makes the problem of incoming realities moot, as every Booker will always choose to reject the baptism (in other words, man up and face his life, rather than run from it).

There's no need to explain it.

All you need to understand is that Elizabeth is/becomes God. Everything else follows.

The quote from the beginning of the game?

Elizabeth: are you afraid of God?
Booker: No, but I'm afraid of you.

The story is ultimately about the redemption of a man, but in classic Ken Levine style, you don't have a choice in the matter.

Except that redemption is undone, and then you are left the drunken gambling addicted mass-murderer who would sell your own daughter to pay your gambling debts (but feel really bad about it)

 

[Direwolf]

That the game is good is not an objective fact.

Actually, it's shit, and that's a fact.

And you're wrong, and that's a fact. Luckily I apparently don't need to say anything else to prove it.

But the game is objectively shit:

Gameplay - shit
Story - shit
Sound - OK
Graphics - OK
Length - shit

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Here's an e-mail I sent to one of my co-workers just now on the subject of BioShock Infinite. I figured it was relevant.

Playing now, I got past Shantytown and am at the Bull's Den or whatever it's called. This story is fucking stupid.

Let's think about this for one second.

1. We need to leave Columbia
2. To do this we procure an airship
3. Because of Booker's incompetence we get the airship stolen by the Vox
4. The Vox say we'll get the airship if we give them weapons for their uprising
5. We go to Fink Industries to get the weapons from a gunsmith
6. On the way, Fink tries to "employ" us
7. After learning that the gunsmith was imprisoned by Fink (who has a private jail because he's a big ol' meanie or something), we go to Fink's club to get the gunsmith out
8. During this time Fink sends one, two, three waves of dudes at us and says that he wants us to become his head of security after we butcher them all (??????????)
9. We eventually reach the gunsmith's cell and find that he is dead
10. The two travelers appear out of nowhere and give us a hint that we can see into an alternate universe
11. We step into the alternate universe and find that the gunsmith isn't dead
12. We leave and fight our way past respawned waves of police (???????) to get to the gunsmith
13. In the gunsmith's office we find in this reality he is "crazy" or something because he's suffering from interdimensional herpes
14. We learn from his wife his tools were stolen by the police, so we go to Shantytown to get them back because we deduce this might solve his herpes problem (?????????)
15. Inside Shantytown we slaughter yet more police officers who inexplicably recognize and try to kill Booker based on their callouts during combat, even though he shouldn't be in this universe and thus they shouldn't know who he is

Why am I even playing this game? Is there even a story here? What am I doing? Why? What's going on? Why are we taking part in this pointlessly convoluted dimension-hopping crap in order to procure tools for a gunsmith so he can make guns so we can get our airship back so we can leave? Do you realize how pointless and drawn-out this all is? Wait, why didn't we just, like... find another airship? Or better yet, go back the way we came to Columbia in the first place? And don't tell me it doesn't work, and there's no other way back, because we didn't even try to see if it was possible or have a dialogue line to explain it's not.

Wait, why is Elizabeth suddenly suffering from Emo Teen Girl Syndrome and crying about how we must think she's a freak in a contrived effort to elicit sympathy for her character? Wait, she knows the Songbird? She speaks to it? Wait, what the hell is the Songbird anyway? Why is this apparently important "character" in the story (or at least backstory) suddenly mentioned out of nowhere? So is it like the final boss? Or is Elizabeth really friends with it? Does it talk to Elizabeth? Does it cuddle her? Why would she cuddle a giant bird? How does it even get into her tower? It's too big!

oh fuck my brain just died

Oh, and screw the skyhooks/rails. Good idea that is used all of 5 times in the entire game and most of them they're nothing more than slightly more flexible jump pads that let you get between islands in an AWESOME BRO kinda way. The rest of the times they're just used in cutscenes. What a waste.

you must be much more convincing than me, or know smarter people, because every time i begin speaking of this game's horrible and obvious shortcomings i meet a rubber wall of "you are wrong, plot is brilliant, i see no invisible walls anywhere, you're making stuff up, it's got 95% on metacritic so you're wrong, i'm better than you because i enjoy it instead of bitching, you're just an anti-mainstream attention whore".
which deeply saddens me because it means humanity is doomed.

 

[sea]

I will say now, I fully finished it. What the hell kind of schizophrenic game was that.

• Great ending sequence and the plot twist, though I saw it coming and had it partially spoiled before, was really well presented. It still kept me guessing until the end, which I can't say for a lot of other stuff. This was enough to push the game "over the edge" for me back into worthwhile, but only barely.
• Switched difficulty to normal to avoid tedium. The game is pitifully easy that way but as a result is actually more fun because enemies are no longer HP-bloated sacks. Still boring and repetitive same old 4 enemies, but at least each fight was not a tedious "die 5 times in a row before you can even figure out what's shooting at you" festival.
• The entire middle section of the game (I would say about 75% of it) is pointless fetch quest filler with almost no plot development. This was almost enough to make me stop playing entirely. I can't believe this was the same game as the beginning and ending; it feels like they had this whole thing planned out, then decided one day "hey, mindfucking is cool!" and rewrote everything but still didn't want to scrap the vast majority even though it did not fit any of it at all.
• It's hilarious how Columbia is at once a place that inspires wonderment and that dazzles visually, yet has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the story and, unlike Rapture in the first BioShock, is completely incidental to everything that actually takes place in the game.
• I look back on the game as a whole and all I can think is, why the hell couldn't I play something that had as much promise as the ending showed? I want that game instead.
• The story both breaks down entirely if you look at it too long and yet the game also has the luxury of pulling "quantum!" out of its ass like a Star Trek: Voyager script to explain away any and all plot holes. For instance, the audio logs: "a tear put them there, duh!" I'm not sure how I feel about a story which has no rules.
• Irrational Games have a fancy for telling meta-commentary on videogames and narrative, stressing things like freedom, choice, and so on, yet they do it in a way that is 100% linear and wherein you have no choice whatsoever. I still think this is kinda stupid.
• BioShock Infinite would have made a much better movie than game, and it would have been much better if it was 1-2 hours instead of 12.

In other words: that was one hell of an interesting ending, but an ending does not make a game.