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Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

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From PC Gamer February 2012 Issue:


"Can a video game handle a genuine riot? It's certainly not the kind of thing you can pull off with the level of set piece scripting that the original Bioshock was so reliant upon. Instead, Levine's team has turned to AI negotiations as the solution, creating a dense mesh of NPCs that will constantly monitor the player's movements, talk amongst themselves, and juggle a range of different reactions to whatever you're doing. Pedestrians will watch for the right moment to foil a mugging or buy a soda, while angry mobs may choose whether to hold themselves in check for the time being, or start breaking windows."


Seems like developers are always playing the more interesting version of the game, eh?
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I was so impressionable as a kid.
When Fable was covered in video game magazines it said you'd be able to buy a peach, plant the seed, watch the peach tree grow, buy a market stand and then sell your peaches as you grow old. Or perhaps you expand into a fruit mogul and buy out the competition.
 
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Wipe out a bandit camp? A pack of Balverines may take up residence there, or a particularly grumpy rock troll. Maybe a small community will form....or it could stay empty, slowly growing over with plants.


Is magic all you use? Do you neglect physical combat? While your spells become almighty your muscles will atrophy and if a sword is equipped your character will visibly drag it around. Just.too.heavy.



Edit: You lying motherfuckers.
 

circ

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Jun 4, 2009
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Looks like the combat always looked like the enemies had no hitboxes and you were just shooting blanks. Yet not a single reviewer, not even the 'negative' ones mention that detail, just that the combat is brutal and boring.
 

aris

Arcane
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Apr 27, 2012
Messages
11,613
So I visited The Guardian today, bros, and you know what I find? A book chart. You know what it says? It says this:

This week's bestsellers

  1. 1. BioShock Infinite Limited Edition Strategy Guide £15.99
  2. 2. Sam 2010 Assessment, Training, and Projects V2.0 Printed Acc £36.00
  3. 3. Rough Guide to the Best iPhone and iPad Apps £3.99
  4. 4. Art of BioShock Infinite by Ken Levine £23.99
  5. 5. Who Owns the Future? by Jaron Lanier £14.00
Did you guys know you need a 16 GBP book of strategy for a linear corridor shooter with zero replayability? Now you know.




:lol: followed by "Rough guide to the best iphone and ipad apps"
Rough? Then this thing can't even be used as toilet paper.:decline:
If you are a real man, sure. Real men only use toilet paper that rips out half of your ass hair when you wipe.
 

Zewp

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Sep 30, 2012
Messages
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Codex 2013
Yes, but that was Molyneux talking. Molyneux is the king of unfulfilled promises. Sometimes I think he's only there so they can slap the name on the box. They lock him away in a room while everyone else develops the game.
 
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
IggHfAZ.gif
 

DeepOcean

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Alien Colonial Marines, again?


Called it. It's just like what happened with Bioshock 1 yet again.

Yeah, I just find amusing the amount of bullshit people can accept from lying developers, that guy on the video was hilarious: "How many Bioshock versions exist in different dimensions...", probably the versions in that 2k/Irrational weren't lying and the game was actually good.
 

Brinko

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Jaesun

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MCA Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
It is just an estimate from Cowen & Company (I don't think they have actual sales numbers like NPD does) who I have never heard of. Not actual sales numbers.
 

Azarkon

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Messages
2,989
This game was never about racism, and people who mistake Levine's setting the game in a racist era for him wanting to make a game about racism are doing themselves a disservice.
So why the scene with the couple at the start? Why is Elizabeth analyzing the bathroom situation?
If racism was left in the background sure... but it's brought forward in retarded scenes like that, trying to stir emotional engagement or w/e. They even stick out like sore thumbs, gives the impression someone had to fill a quota. Slaughter, slaughter, slaughter, racism is bad mkay?, slaughter, slaughter, slaughter...
The big problem is that, there is a huge portion of the game without any interesting happening, the shooting is boring and the plot even more boring. It is only let's show some social issue in a retarded way. People say that the social issues are only a background thing but you can only say something happen on the background when something more important is happening at the same, this is not the case, it is almost impossible to walk 5 m without hearing some civillian/villain saying or watching some form of extreme racism/fundamentalist/nacionalistic/elitism when you aren't shooting dudes. The impression I got is that the people in Columbia put the nazis on shame in term of nationalistic/racism fanatism. It isn't see how the worker life is hard, no, no, no, all the Fink factory have to be a fucking hell to the workers and you have too see a fucking huge golden statue of Fink... yeah, it is a background thing when you are bombarded with it all the time. It is racism/elitism OVERLOAD all the time. I just found that racist/fundamentalist propaganda very boring. I just thought at the time: When something remotely interesting is going to happen again?

When you build a world which has certain differences from our own, and set your game there, do you not want to, you know, spotlight those differences? Given that the average gamer has the attention span of a psychotic goat with ADD, being subtle about it doesn't exactly work. I'm a pretty attentive gamer, and I didn't find the social issues overloaded at all. What was overloaded is the combat. Two steps and there's another one of those.

Bottom line: gaudalost said it before - the game uses these spotlighted thematic moments to create atmosphere and setting. It doesn't try to resolve them in an insightful way - it's touch and go. Infinite isn't about racism/fundamentalism, in the same way that Bioshock 1 wasn't about libertarianism and communism. The ways with which the series deals with these issues are superficial, and while this is a weakness of design from the vintage of socially constructive games, it was never the goal of these games to deliver a message about a philosophical / social issue in the first place. Look at Bioshock 1's central moral conceit - ie DO YOU KILL THE LITTLE SISTERS??? - it's got little to do with the social philosophies the game's flavor texts espouse.

These games have the philosophical / social relevance of philosoraptor.
 

HanoverF

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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
I wonder if there will ever be an in depth postmortem on Bioshock Infinite detailing what changes were made and why. The e3 demo actually seemed ambitious, which whatever you think of the final product, it definitely isn't gameplaywise. That video didn't even mention that Vox Populi versus Founders played a bigger role at some point and now the Founders are only mentioned in graffiti and maybe an audiolog.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
This game was never about racism, and people who mistake Levine's setting the game in a racist era for him wanting to make a game about racism are doing themselves a disservice.
So why the scene with the couple at the start? Why is Elizabeth analyzing the bathroom situation?
If racism was left in the background sure... but it's brought forward in retarded scenes like that, trying to stir emotional engagement or w/e. They even stick out like sore thumbs, gives the impression someone had to fill a quota. Slaughter, slaughter, slaughter, racism is bad mkay?, slaughter, slaughter, slaughter...
The big problem is that, there is a huge portion of the game without any interesting happening, the shooting is boring and the plot even more boring. It is only let's show some social issue in a retarded way. People say that the social issues are only a background thing but you can only say something happen on the background when something more important is happening at the same, this is not the case, it is almost impossible to walk 5 m without hearing some civillian/villain saying or watching some form of extreme racism/fundamentalist/nacionalistic/elitism when you aren't shooting dudes. The impression I got is that the people in Columbia put the nazis on shame in term of nationalistic/racism fanatism. It isn't see how the worker life is hard, no, no, no, all the Fink factory have to be a fucking hell to the workers and you have too see a fucking huge golden statue of Fink... yeah, it is a background thing when you are bombarded with it all the time. It is racism/elitism OVERLOAD all the time. I just found that racist/fundamentalist propaganda very boring. I just thought at the time: When something remotely interesting is going to happen again?

When you build a world which has certain differences from our own, and set your game there, do you not want to, you know, spotlight those differences? Given that the average gamer has the attention span of a psychotic goat with ADD, being subtle about it doesn't exactly work. I'm a pretty attentive gamer, and I didn't find the social issues overloaded at all. What was overloaded is the combat. Two steps and there's another one of those.

Bottom line: gaudalost said it before - the game uses these spotlighted thematic moments to create atmosphere and setting. It doesn't try to resolve them in an insightful way - it's touch and go. Infinite isn't about racism/fundamentalism, in the same way that Bioshock 1 wasn't about libertarianism and communism. The ways with which the series deals with these issues are superficial, and while this is a weakness of design from the vintage of socially constructive games, it was never the goal of these games to deliver a message about a philosophical / social issue in the first place. Look at Bioshock 1's central moral conceit - ie DO YOU KILL THE LITTLE SISTERS??? - it's got little to do with the social philosophies the game's flavor texts espouse.

These games have the philosophical / social relevance of philosoraptor.
Columbia exist in the 1910 - 1920 period, if they wanted to make a exagerated version of the time, they shouldn't claim connections with reality. Because it will inevitably bring comparisons with it. If the extremism was justified in some form for example: Instead of Columbia existing on the 1910 - 1920, it should exist on todays's world and the city being trapped on time on 1910 by the whole multidimentions thing (hey, it's science magic, why not?), living 100 years without having the social reforms that came with time could explain the extremism, another possibility is that the player would get in the city when the Vox Populi revolution is happening for some time and the regime is kinda desperate, that is why people are so extreme in their attitudes, the way it is, it appears that the civil war only begins for real when you get to the city and the Vox Populi was a minor resistance group only becoming e real threat because of your actions, it could be propaganda from Comstock and the Vox Populi was a way bigger threat than Comstock admited and in reality he was close to lose if he don't do something, but this should be shown to the player. The problems that Rapture was enough removed from reality so all this exageration on characters design made sense, but people on Columbia appear too much with the average american of the 1910 - 1920 so the whole social issue estremism is exagerated. Racism, exploitatiom, fundamentalism survives because they aren't such obvious thing. Only the most hardcore racist would throw a ball at defenseless, in suffering, black person on a stage (Even on Nazi Germany, Hitler had to hide the mass execution and suffering of the jews from the germans.) and based on the civillians conversations, people in Columbia are all hardcore racists by their own will, the only people that oppose Comstock are on the Vox Populi, and they are psychotic murders, so there isn't balance showing that there is alot going on than the propaganda from Comstock.

I guess it is my fault for wanting complexity from a 2013 CoD clone.
 
Joined
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9,146
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Italy
see, i'm an amateur writer.
the first thing i learnt was "show, don't tell". the second was "if you have to explain something, you failed".
how many late explanations do we need before aknowledging this biocock is just a huge pile of fail?
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
This game was never about racism, and people who mistake Levine's setting the game in a racist era for him wanting to make a game about racism are doing themselves a disservice.
So why the scene with the couple at the start? Why is Elizabeth analyzing the bathroom situation?
If racism was left in the background sure... but it's brought forward in retarded scenes like that, trying to stir emotional engagement or w/e. They even stick out like sore thumbs, gives the impression someone had to fill a quota. Slaughter, slaughter, slaughter, racism is bad mkay?, slaughter, slaughter, slaughter...
The big problem is that, there is a huge portion of the game without any interesting happening, the shooting is boring and the plot even more boring. It is only let's show some social issue in a retarded way. People say that the social issues are only a background thing but you can only say something happen on the background when something more important is happening at the same, this is not the case, it is almost impossible to walk 5 m without hearing some civillian/villain saying or watching some form of extreme racism/fundamentalist/nacionalistic/elitism when you aren't shooting dudes. The impression I got is that the people in Columbia put the nazis on shame in term of nationalistic/racism fanatism. It isn't see how the worker life is hard, no, no, no, all the Fink factory have to be a fucking hell to the workers and you have too see a fucking huge golden statue of Fink... yeah, it is a background thing when you are bombarded with it all the time. It is racism/elitism OVERLOAD all the time. I just found that racist/fundamentalist propaganda very boring. I just thought at the time: When something remotely interesting is going to happen again?

When you build a world which has certain differences from our own, and set your game there, do you not want to, you know, spotlight those differences? Given that the average gamer has the attention span of a psychotic goat with ADD, being subtle about it doesn't exactly work. I'm a pretty attentive gamer, and I didn't find the social issues overloaded at all. What was overloaded is the combat. Two steps and there's another one of those.

Bottom line: gaudalost said it before - the game uses these spotlighted thematic moments to create atmosphere and setting. It doesn't try to resolve them in an insightful way - it's touch and go. Infinite isn't about racism/fundamentalism, in the same way that Bioshock 1 wasn't about libertarianism and communism. The ways with which the series deals with these issues are superficial, and while this is a weakness of design from the vintage of socially constructive games, it was never the goal of these games to deliver a message about a philosophical / social issue in the first place. Look at Bioshock 1's central moral conceit - ie DO YOU KILL THE LITTLE SISTERS??? - it's got little to do with the social philosophies the game's flavor texts espouse.

These games have the philosophical / social relevance of philosoraptor.
Columbia exist in the 1910 - 1920 period, if they wanted to make a exagerated version of the time, they shouldn't claim connections with reality. Because it will inevitably bring comparisons with it. If the extremism was justified in some form for example: Instead of Columbia existing on the 1910 - 1920, it should exist on todays's world and the city being trapped on time on 1910 by the whole multidimentions thing (hey, it's science magic, why not?), living 100 years without having the social reforms that came with time could explain the extremism, another possibility is that the player would get in the city when the Vox Populi revolution is happening for some time and the regime is kinda desperate, that is why people are so extreme in their attitudes, the way it is, it appears that the civil war only begins for real when you get to the city and the Vox Populi was a minor resistance group only becoming e real threat because of your actions, it could be propaganda from Comstock and the Vox Populi was a way bigger threat than Comstock admited and in reality he was close to lose if he don't do something, but this should be shown to the player. The problems that Rapture was enough removed from reality so all this exageration on characters design made sense, but people on Columbia appear too much with the average american of the 1910 - 1920 so the whole social issue estremism is exagerated. Racism, exploitatiom, fundamentalism survives because they aren't such obvious thing. Only the most hardcore racist would throw a ball at defenseless, in suffering, black person on a stage (Even on Nazi Germany, Hitler had to hide the mass execution and suffering of the jews from the germans.) and based on the civillians conversations, people in Columbia are all hardcore racists by their own will, the only people that oppose Comstock are on the Vox Populi, and they are psychotic murders, so there isn't balance showing that there is alot going on than the propaganda from Comstock.

I guess it is my fault for wanting complexity from a 2013 CoD clone.

But Columbia IS an exaggerated version of America in the early 1900s, and it got there because it is - one, isolated; two, led by Comstock, who uses early 1900s right wing American ideologies to build a society founded on those principles, the same way Rapture was founded on Andrew Ryan's libertarianism. There's no need for nuance because Comstock - using dimensional travel - has led the masses to believe that he is The Prophet and so his ideologies are sacrosanct.

Imagine Madison Grant being given the ability to build his vision of an utopian society. That's Comstock's Columbia. It's exaggerated to show you the difference between itself and our world, but it in no way needs to be subtle because Americans back then didn't need a lot to believe that what Comstock was doing was correct.

To go after racism at a deeper level than this, to engage racist ideologies directly, in all its details and nuances, requires the game to be about racism. I don't think it is. For that matter I don't think a game is capable of being made that presents Grant, Loddard, etc. in all their gory details, because racism in the modern world is a taboo that nobody wants to tackle, only parody and condemn.
 

Gelbvieh

Educated
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
142
Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera
Bioshock Infinite discusses racism like Django Unchained discusses slavery. It's just not worth it, guys.

Edit: but the thread must go on!
 

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