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Yes?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • Yes, but sarcastically

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • Yes, aggressively

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • [Dwarf] By my clean elven arse, yes!

    Votes: 8 22.2%
  • [Paladin] By my oath I must say, yes.

    Votes: 5 13.9%
  • [Trans] Yes, and then I go 41%

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • [Kingcomrade] Kingcomrade

    Votes: 12 33.3%

  • Total voters
    36

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Sep 6, 2022
Messages
15,513
Up to a point, I don't think the "cinematic RPG" or companion romances or a bit of streamlining or the introduction of action elements are such bad things in and of themselves, or even in combination; and re. whatever sickness they reveal, that sickness is in something that was already latent in society generally, and such games are just the messenger.

It's a bit like the piracy argument. One might say piracy eats into profits, but on the other hand most of the people who pirate would never have bought the thing in the first place, so (with some exceptiopns, granted) it's not really a loss of profit (in fact if anything it's free marketing if a product is pirated, because it means the thing is probably good, and the pirating helps create a buzz - in a way, it's more like a form of market segmentation at the "free" level).

Analogously, one might think the BioWare schtick "squeezed out" better game styles and game designs. But not really - the market for better (more nerdy/crunchy) game designs was already saturated (there are only so many actual nerds in the world and they were probably already making and playing vidya). And there are still tons of good games being made at the sub-AAA level, probably about as many as when the business was still by and for nerds (e.g. in recent years games like Troubleshooter or King Arthur are examples of good gameplay "classics" that can stand pretty well with older classics., while Kingdom Come Deliverance or even TW3 are examples of the "cinematic CRPG" experience done well).

From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims and gesamntkunstwerken. That's all normies are interested in, they're not interested in the various failure states on the way to achieving that, the various genres and sub-genres that the drive to that ideal has hived off, that have become for many of us treasured items from our past.

That kind of normie-attracting gesamtkunstwerk will always be what developers who are aiming to make a profit are aiming for within their resources, and whenever a developer approaches some aspect of that ideal more closely, that CRPG will be a breakout hit. If they also add elements that "attract the wrong crowd" that's just an unfortunate side-aspect (and as most of us know, it's something that's been pushed on developers, not something they've necessarily done organically, either for passion or for profit).

You can see this really clearly by comparing and contrasting BG3 and Failguard: the former is a genuine "cinematic RPG" made by nerds who, for all their intellectual faults and kinks, have a love for the genre; the latter is the dire and direct result of DEI hiring policy. With the former, the game is good enough in its basics that most of us here can probably get some fun out of it; with the latter, it's totally hopeless. But note that the former is also a big breakout hit with normies - not just with pervs, but with actual masses of gameplaying normies who will only play a big breakout CRPG now and then.

When? Well, when it gets closer to the criterion I've outlined: of being a gesamtkunstwerk adventure simulator. And the BioWare of old pioneered that.
Problem is that the "Bioware fantasy" became an annoying trend.
Romances. Idiotic companion quests. A highly questionable real time/round based (6 seconds) hybrid combat system.
Personally, I am rather sick of the typical high fantasy dragon shit mixed with elf and orc shit on top of it.
I want something new. I want fresh ideas and settings.
How about playing as a race of angels cast into the mortal realm for a specific goal? Or even playing as a demon given a second chance at redemption. How will you use it? Will you redeem yourself or sink deeper into evil and damnation once again?
My ideal is dark fantasy/sword & sorcery.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
34,593
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Personally, I am rather sick of the typical high fantasy dragon shit mixed with elf and orc shit on top of it.
I want something new. I want fresh ideas and settings.
I'll be fine with a TRUE return to tradition.
Not the Tolkien pastiches (Tolkien himself is fine, it's the mindless pastiches that are a problem). But the classic sword & sorcery, filled with strangeness and wonder. Back when fantasy still dared to be fantastic instead of repeating tired tropes.

I want regular men and women confronting the weird, the macabre, the magical. I want the savagery of Robert E. Howard's Hyboria, the decadence of Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique, the magical fairytale vibe of Lord Dunsany.
I want fantasy that retains its sense of wonder, that throws the player into a strange world rather than giving him the same familiar tropes over and over.

I want designers of fantasy games to actually use their imagination again.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,966
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims
Adventure sims were what some of the early AD&D modules were such as some of the Dragonlance modules. Considering some of the Greyhawk modules by Gygax and Arneson, as well as many of the adventuring gear, the need for rations, etc. within the rulebooks, rpgs fundamentally were supposed to be some sort of adventure simulator built on top of a war game.

However, if the normalfag (normie is a normalfag term) viewed crpgs as adventure sims we'd be much better off. The normalfag views crpgs as story games with some stat system and if they watch redditor-made videos on youtube, they think rpgs are about choice and consequences via multiple choice dialogue or some other nonsense. The aspect of BG3 that sold the game for instance was it's marvel movie cutscenes with multiple choice dialogue much like what Bioware did in KOTOR.

I'm using the definition "adventure simulator" because I think that's what nerds and nerd developers have always been aiming at, from tabletop, through MUDs and such, to CRPGs. CRPGs and immersive sims, Bethesda's earlier efforts, BioWare's earlier efforts, and similiar games, even MMOs in their early days, are all variations on the theme. It's what distinguishes CRPGs from earlier wargames and from purely tactical games, that element of a smaller party going on an adventure and weaving a story of some kind together, overcoming challenges along the way, etc.

And normie want it too. It's not that normies consciously understand this to be what they're looking for, what I'm saying it's their revealed preference - it's what they vote with their feet for. What I'm saying is that it's the reason why there's a breakout CRPG hit every few years. It happens whenever the tech progresses sufficiently for a noticeably more up-to-date iteration, or developers are at the top of their game, such that they can iterate towards that ideal a bit more, in one area of the ideal gesamtkunstwerk or another.

Well of course the DEI bullshit interacts with this in strange ways, but even despite all that, this is still the core concept of the genre.
 

Edgetard

Educated
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Messages
180
Location
Hell
they got ONE shot with me5 by my guess otherwise the reapers scythe awaits prepare for the attempt to create 2-4 waifus to compete with one another and 2-3 guy options for girls (and queers) expect them all to be bi to maximize effect expect the ones that get the most investment to be aliens
as for story thats absolutely fucked sorry not sorry you arent fixing that cluster fuck
if the parasocial strategy works (might sadly) expect all the cattle that praised bg3 to proclaim me5 a return to biowares form the right of center cattle might even ignore all the gay shit in it and not call it woke expect endless liariavstali wars and r34 to get flooded again
HOWEVER this will ONLY work if they have a stable game and enough alien pussy to cover up the fact there is no actual story
as for us well all hate it no matter what

honestly why not just make a mass effect sims game lmfao youd be selling an accurate product
 

Iucounu

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
1,055
From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims
Adventure sims were what some of the early AD&D modules were such as some of the Dragonlance modules. Considering some of the Greyhawk modules by Gygax and Arneson, as well as many of the adventuring gear, the need for rations, etc. within the rulebooks, rpgs fundamentally were supposed to be some sort of adventure simulator built on top of a war game.

However, if the normalfag (normie is a normalfag term) viewed crpgs as adventure sims we'd be much better off. The normalfag views crpgs as story games with some stat system and if they watch redditor-made videos on youtube, they think rpgs are about choice and consequences via multiple choice dialogue or some other nonsense. The aspect of BG3 that sold the game for instance was it's marvel movie cutscenes with multiple choice dialogue much like what Bioware did in KOTOR.

I'm using the definition "adventure simulator" because I think that's what nerds and nerd developers have always been aiming at, from tabletop, through MUDs and such, to CRPGs. CRPGs and immersive sims, Bethesda's earlier efforts, BioWare's earlier efforts, and similiar games, even MMOs in their early days, are all variations on the theme. It's what distinguishes CRPGs from earlier wargames and from purely tactical games, that element of a smaller party going on an adventure and weaving a story of some kind together, overcoming challenges along the way, etc.

And normie want it too. It's not that normies consciously understand this to be what they're looking for, what I'm saying it's their revealed preference - it's what they vote with their feet for. What I'm saying is that it's the reason why there's a breakout CRPG hit every few years. It happens whenever the tech progresses sufficiently for a noticeably more up-to-date iteration, or developers are at the top of their game, such that they can iterate towards that ideal a bit more, in one area of the ideal gesamtkunstwerk or another.

Well of course the DEI bullshit interacts with this in strange ways, but even despite all that, this is still the core concept of the genre.
But do normie women want adventure? I think that's the market segment they're trying to reach.
 

Skinwalker

*meows at 3AM for no reason*
Patron
Village Idiot
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
13,124
Location
Yessex
Poll continues to be retarded. There's no question being asked. What am I saying "yes" to? Signing off all my life savings to the OP faggot, who btw is a larpagan neo-nazi larping as a different jew-larper account that had self-deleted?
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,091
The "contribution" to the cRPG genre that Bioware must take the blame for is prewritten companions for you to have pretend friendships and romances with. Sit around the campfire and talk about your feelies, gender confusion, etc then cut to a cringey sex scene featuring whatever degenerate acts you can think of.

This is decline and always has been. Made by soyfags & women to be consumed by same.

Bioware may be drowning in its own wokeness but unfortunately the mantle has been taken up by Larian and their godawful bullshit which is now the new industry standard thanks to the success of BG3.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2022
Messages
458
they got ONE shot with me5 by my guess otherwise the reapers scythe awaits
For me personally their last shot was Dragon Age 4, and when they took it they shot their own dick off. If they ever again produce anything I consider decent I will take it as conclusive proof that I have gone clinically insane and need to be committed to an asylum.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,888
Location
The Present
The current zietgiest on RPGCodex is that Bioware is the devil, but it has only been that way for the later half of its nearly 30 years in business. For close to 15 years it pumped out some of the greatest works of the genre that still have impact today. That was followed by mediocrity and now degeneracy. As for lasting harm to the genre, it's only the romances which can truly be laid at Bioware's feet. All the other trends that plague yesteryear to today are just products of their time not unique to bioware.
 

Edgetard

Educated
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Messages
180
Location
Hell
they got ONE shot with me5 by my guess otherwise the reapers scythe awaits
For me personally their last shot was Dragon Age 4, and when they took it they shot their own dick off. If they ever again produce anything I consider decent I will take it as conclusive proof that I have gone clinically insane and need to be committed to an asylum.
meant in the sense of they make this stick or they literally die WE might not buy their games since dragon age 4 (hell I havent bought a game they made since mass effect 3) but if me5 fails they join pandemic in the graveyard of devs and unlike others people wont be asking WHY it died
 

MerchantKing

Learned
Joined
Jun 5, 2023
Messages
1,697
From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims
Adventure sims were what some of the early AD&D modules were such as some of the Dragonlance modules. Considering some of the Greyhawk modules by Gygax and Arneson, as well as many of the adventuring gear, the need for rations, etc. within the rulebooks, rpgs fundamentally were supposed to be some sort of adventure simulator built on top of a war game.

However, if the normalfag (normie is a normalfag term) viewed crpgs as adventure sims we'd be much better off. The normalfag views crpgs as story games with some stat system and if they watch redditor-made videos on youtube, they think rpgs are about choice and consequences via multiple choice dialogue or some other nonsense. The aspect of BG3 that sold the game for instance was it's marvel movie cutscenes with multiple choice dialogue much like what Bioware did in KOTOR.

I'm using the definition "adventure simulator" because I think that's what nerds and nerd developers have always been aiming at, from tabletop, through MUDs and such, to CRPGs. CRPGs and immersive sims, Bethesda's earlier efforts, BioWare's earlier efforts, and similiar games, even MMOs in their early days, are all variations on the theme. It's what distinguishes CRPGs from earlier wargames and from purely tactical games, that element of a smaller party going on an adventure and weaving a story of some kind together, overcoming challenges along the way, etc.

And normie want it too. It's not that normies consciously understand this to be what they're looking for, what I'm saying it's their revealed preference - it's what they vote with their feet for. What I'm saying is that it's the reason why there's a breakout CRPG hit every few years. It happens whenever the tech progresses sufficiently for a noticeably more up-to-date iteration, or developers are at the top of their game, such that they can iterate towards that ideal a bit more, in one area of the ideal gesamtkunstwerk or another.

Well of course the DEI bullshit interacts with this in strange ways, but even despite all that, this is still the core concept of the genre.
But do normie women want adventure? I think that's the market segment they're trying to reach.
Normie women all secretly want to be part of Gnomish warlord's harem after he buys out their village.
 

Iucounu

Scholar
Joined
Jul 4, 2023
Messages
1,055
From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims
Adventure sims were what some of the early AD&D modules were such as some of the Dragonlance modules. Considering some of the Greyhawk modules by Gygax and Arneson, as well as many of the adventuring gear, the need for rations, etc. within the rulebooks, rpgs fundamentally were supposed to be some sort of adventure simulator built on top of a war game.

However, if the normalfag (normie is a normalfag term) viewed crpgs as adventure sims we'd be much better off. The normalfag views crpgs as story games with some stat system and if they watch redditor-made videos on youtube, they think rpgs are about choice and consequences via multiple choice dialogue or some other nonsense. The aspect of BG3 that sold the game for instance was it's marvel movie cutscenes with multiple choice dialogue much like what Bioware did in KOTOR.

I'm using the definition "adventure simulator" because I think that's what nerds and nerd developers have always been aiming at, from tabletop, through MUDs and such, to CRPGs. CRPGs and immersive sims, Bethesda's earlier efforts, BioWare's earlier efforts, and similiar games, even MMOs in their early days, are all variations on the theme. It's what distinguishes CRPGs from earlier wargames and from purely tactical games, that element of a smaller party going on an adventure and weaving a story of some kind together, overcoming challenges along the way, etc.

And normie want it too. It's not that normies consciously understand this to be what they're looking for, what I'm saying it's their revealed preference - it's what they vote with their feet for. What I'm saying is that it's the reason why there's a breakout CRPG hit every few years. It happens whenever the tech progresses sufficiently for a noticeably more up-to-date iteration, or developers are at the top of their game, such that they can iterate towards that ideal a bit more, in one area of the ideal gesamtkunstwerk or another.

Well of course the DEI bullshit interacts with this in strange ways, but even despite all that, this is still the core concept of the genre.
But do normie women want adventure? I think that's the market segment they're trying to reach.
Normie women all secretly want to be part of Gnomish warlord's harem after he buys out their village.
That's just the intro cutscene, the rest of the game will be about rising in the ranks of harem women and ultimately become Queen of the Gnomes...

But there is one type of adventure Western normie women can't get enough of: being abducted and raped by an arab sheikh!
https://theconversation.com/the-she...l-flutters-hearts-not-stirred-by-metoo-111646
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,966
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
From the normie point of view, CRPGs are adventure sims
Adventure sims were what some of the early AD&D modules were such as some of the Dragonlance modules. Considering some of the Greyhawk modules by Gygax and Arneson, as well as many of the adventuring gear, the need for rations, etc. within the rulebooks, rpgs fundamentally were supposed to be some sort of adventure simulator built on top of a war game.

However, if the normalfag (normie is a normalfag term) viewed crpgs as adventure sims we'd be much better off. The normalfag views crpgs as story games with some stat system and if they watch redditor-made videos on youtube, they think rpgs are about choice and consequences via multiple choice dialogue or some other nonsense. The aspect of BG3 that sold the game for instance was it's marvel movie cutscenes with multiple choice dialogue much like what Bioware did in KOTOR.

I'm using the definition "adventure simulator" because I think that's what nerds and nerd developers have always been aiming at, from tabletop, through MUDs and such, to CRPGs. CRPGs and immersive sims, Bethesda's earlier efforts, BioWare's earlier efforts, and similiar games, even MMOs in their early days, are all variations on the theme. It's what distinguishes CRPGs from earlier wargames and from purely tactical games, that element of a smaller party going on an adventure and weaving a story of some kind together, overcoming challenges along the way, etc.

And normie want it too. It's not that normies consciously understand this to be what they're looking for, what I'm saying it's their revealed preference - it's what they vote with their feet for. What I'm saying is that it's the reason why there's a breakout CRPG hit every few years. It happens whenever the tech progresses sufficiently for a noticeably more up-to-date iteration, or developers are at the top of their game, such that they can iterate towards that ideal a bit more, in one area of the ideal gesamtkunstwerk or another.

Well of course the DEI bullshit interacts with this in strange ways, but even despite all that, this is still the core concept of the genre.
But do normie women want adventure? I think that's the market segment they're trying to reach.

So long as they can do their makeup, they're fine with adventure :)
 

jaekl

CHUD LIFE
Patron
Joined
May 1, 2023
Messages
1,784
Location
Canada
As you can tell by my picture on the left, I'm very experienced in mostly peaceful protesting
 

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