KickStarter Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness - Tales of the Moon Cult expansion on the way

[Tyranicon]

So I remember Black Geyser back from the days one of the devs was posting horrible ideas on the forum and we were all laughing at them and picking everything apart.

It was even funnier than that, it was the dev's GF iirc.

Paging GreenMagicSpell

Ex-gf, keep up, man.

A woman, on codex?

Skeptical but warm welcome!


You got some serious balls (walls?) to hang out with us degenerates.

Are you uh... still involved with development? Was wondering if GrapeOcean has plans for what they're doing next.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

Not involved... directly. Rumors here and there. About financial issues aswell

It's not being bombed, it's just that 8 of the last 16 reviews have been negative.

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

EDIT: found this single source. My personal source confirmed its still true :-(

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Here's one of the recent negative reviews:

The game is made with full disrespect to player's time.
Locations are full of lootable containers which should be robbed but can randomly start a fight with nearby npc.
On of the companion's quest supposes you should find them somewhere in the city location, after running there for some time I was forced to google where is he.
Meanwhile there are two taverns (the district is criminal as the searched companion) and you can't ask there where is he.

Sounds good to me that there's no hand holding.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Anyone who asks an entertainment activity to "respect his time" should be gelded.

 

[covr]

I had to leave a positive review to balance this insanity.

 

[ItsChon]

I know I already asked about the game, but everyone acts so blase towards it that I really can't muster the energy to try it. Does anyone have even a modicum of energy to try and describe the games strengths and weaknesses? BG1 is an amazing fucking game, a top ten cRPG of all time, so falling short of that mark doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, it would suggest that the game is quite good, especially for a new RPG done on a tight budget. You wouldn't think that with how Codexers talk about it though. Codexer's often rate absolute dog shit games as "eh it was okay", so it is not reassuring when people describe Black Geyser this way.

 

[Cyberarmy]

It is BG1 on a very tight budget and without BG1s charm.

 

[Roguey]

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

Downside of putting your game on sale to get more sales is that it's going to attract impulse buyers who won't like it. It's not bombing, bombing is when a bunch of people give negative reviews over some periphery issue or a sudden change for the worse with the game itself.

 

[Tyranicon]

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

Downside of putting your game on sale to get more sales is that it's going to attract impulse buyers who won't like it. It's not bombing, bombing is when a bunch of people give negative reviews over some periphery issue or a sudden change for the worse with the game itself.

Also, getting stupid reviews from actual idiots is a rite of passage for developers. Assume the average reviewer has a negative IQ.

Logically, making CRPGs would cut that number down, but not as much as you'd think.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I know I already asked about the game, but everyone acts so blase towards it that I really can't muster the energy to try it. Does anyone have even a modicum of energy to try and describe the games strengths and weaknesses? BG1 is an amazing fucking game, a top ten cRPG of all time, so falling short of that mark doesn't mean it's bad. In fact, it would suggest that the game is quite good, especially for a new RPG done on a tight budget. You wouldn't think that with how Codexers talk about it though. Codexer's often rate absolute dog shit games as "eh it was okay", so it is not reassuring when people describe Black Geyser this way.

I played it some on release (wrote up a couple of posts here), and I don't know how improved the experience has been since then. I'm tempted to pick it up again.
From memory:
The story and gameplay I found to be low-effort and low-budget respectively but charming in an old-school sort of way. There is just enough "d33p l0re" to provide an excuse for the familiar Infinity Engine game loop. I think that's a good thing, because PoE, Deadfire, and other isometric RPGs have shown time and again that trying to go too "literary" in your isometric cRPG is a bad idea. Why that is, is a separate conversation.

The greed mechanic was the game's biggest attraction and innovation, but this needs balancing on one hand, and some degree of the player advancing through the campaign, in order to make a judgement on the C&C associated with it.

I couldn't testify about the quality of encounter design because I only got as far as the city (i.e. out of the tutorial areas), but I don't think it will be anything to write home about compared to the best examples from the IE games. I'm not an optimist because good encounter design requires experienced area designers, and this game is the team's first.

Overall, the game It's a good pick for a longtime player of cRPGs with meta knowledge about the genre. It doesn't seem to try to innovate on the genre's tropes, but I think that's the right choice given the team's lack of experience and the fact that cRPG players tend to be grognards who have played the IE games to death and are mostly looking for new content to explore with little changes to mechanics.

 

[Tacgnol]

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

Downside of putting your game on sale to get more sales is that it's going to attract impulse buyers who won't like it. It's not bombing, bombing is when a bunch of people give negative reviews over some periphery issue or a sudden change for the worse with the game itself.

A lot of the negative reviews seem pretty well thought out. At least one of them comments on the quality of the writing with specific examples.

I've not played Black Geyser yet so can't comment as to the accuracy, but a lot of them seemed like pretty legit criticism to me.

 

[thesheeep]

I agree with Tacgnol At least the recent reviews I am seeing are understandable criticisms and only one or two of them I'd say are from idiots who didn't even watch a gameplay video before buying.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

Downside of putting your game on sale to get more sales is that it's going to attract impulse buyers who won't like it. It's not bombing, bombing is when a bunch of people give negative reviews over some periphery issue or a sudden change for the worse with the game itself.

A lot of the negative reviews seem pretty well thought out. At least one of them comments on the quality of the writing with specific examples.

I've not played Black Geyser yet so can't comment as to the accuracy, but a lot of them seemed like pretty legit criticism to me.

Switching backward to my evangelist mode (nope, I just hate when ppl arent forgiving with indies, and Iam not alone with that):

If you haven't played it, how can you think they are legit? If you mean their style (not vulgar) or con tent (has a point) then yes. If you mean if they are true, you cant know that. And what makes a review legit for me is if says the Truth or not

8 negative ones in a row. Saying the game graphics quality is not like Divinity. I mean, I wouldnt buy the game if I want Divinity quality level cause I can watch videos. People actually buy a game, play a game, and realize after X Hours that it is not like Divinitty and then leave a bad review for an indie that published multiply* times that they are in crap situation of Steam-Based Sales. Must be an utter ass hole

Downside of putting your game on sale to get more sales is that it's going to attract impulse buyers who won't like it.

All the 8 negative reviews you mentioned were wrotten before the sale, at full price.

 

[Tacgnol]

If you haven't played it, how can you think they are legit? If you mean their style (not vulgar) or con tent (has a point) then yes. If you mean if they are true, you cant know that. And what makes a review legit for me is if says the Truth or not

If someone puts the effort into providing more than a sentence with specific examples then, more often than not, it's going to be a legitimate (if subjective) criticism.

You appear to have a rather personal connection to this game (via ex-bf/friends w/e) and seem to be (unfairly) writing off negative reviews. I've seen very similar criticism of the writing in other reviews and mentioned several times on the Codex.

I somehow doubt all these people have a personal vendetta against the game.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

I have a personal connection to old-school style, and albeit i am not a mathematicianican, I was forced to learn some stats - statistics - in school back then .

Oh nope, they dont personal vendetta, I agree. Just people who pay for a game without reading more about it on codex or elsewhere first . Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

 

[just]

you're single now?
you know, im making a rpg myself

 

[Tyranicon]

I have a personal connection to old-school style, and albeit i am not a mathematicianican, I was forced to learn some stats - statistics - in school back then .

Oh nope, they dont personal vendetta, I agree. Just people who pay for a game without reading more about it on codex or elsewhere first . Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

Are you saying you're against negative reviews in general? I can't say I agree with that, Steam's review system (as flawed as it is) exists for players to give their opinions on games.

Yes, it probably hurts a game's profits and it makes the devs feel bad, but as a commercial enterprise that's how it is.

I wish it was more constructive criticism instead of "you game suck and you retard dev, poggers" tier reviews.

 

[Tacgnol]

Oh nope, they dont personal vendetta, I agree. Just people who pay for a game without reading more about it on codex or elsewhere first . Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

I will end up playing it at some point. My overall point is really that if someone puts some effort into a review, I'm unlikely to write it off as being a low-effort shit post.

I don't doubt there are some retarded reviews on the game, but the ones that I saw seemed to be mostly written in good faith and described, at least in the eyes of the reviewers, what they saw as genuine issues.

 

[fantadomat]

graphics quality is not like Divinity

Were those the positive reviews?! Since divinity graphics are generic at best.

 

[Alienman]

I have a personal connection to old-school style, and albeit i am not a mathematicianican, I was forced to learn some stats - statistics - in school back then .

Oh nope, they dont personal vendetta, I agree. Just people who pay for a game without reading more about it on codex or elsewhere first . Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

If a game is bad, it is bad, sorry to say. I don't think it's part of some grand conspiracy like people have been telling you.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

My point was that I dislike reviews that don't tell the Truth. Black Geysers has many flaws that I can confirm myself . And many ( both pos and neg) reviews list those flaws . What I meant are reviews that are not true . If you cant interpret it, its not my fault.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

So... every game should be rated positive or not at all unless the dev's an asshole? Is that about right?

Do you understand that that makes reviews pointless?

 

[mediocrepoet]

My point was that I dislike reviews that don't tell the Truth. Black Geysers has many flaws that I can confirm myself . And many ( both pos and neg) reviews list those flaws . What I meant are reviews that are not true . If you cant interpret it, its not my fault.

 

[GreenMagicSpell]

Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

So... every game should be rated positive or not at all unless the dev's an asshole? Is that about right?

Do you understand that that makes reviews pointless?

It doesnt.

I'm enjoying indies, mostly - for a good reason. I dont support Eletronic Arts by principle. I'm trying to enjoy indies - big and small indies. Before I buy an indie, I check gameplay vids, YT, and read pro-con reviews. Then I decide if I pur chase it. If I do, and I dont like it after all, I'm not going to give a negative review cause I know it well - not only from my ex - how indies are struggling nowadays with sales. Your problem is that you want a rating system that is common for small , big indies and for AAAs.

This has nothing to do with Black Geysers alone . I did the same with other titles. Same would have happend with Realms of Beyond, too bad the project died. The black geyser team clearly stated in that steam post that poor reviews impact their sales. I heard it from an internal source too. As you can see , they seem to release fixes very, very often, so Ive no intention to fck them up further

If you dont know the wording of empathy, not my problem. Men tend to have a weaker empathy than women, but not zero .

EDIT: nope, Solasta isn't a small indie . Its founders are ex-Ubisoft, with major connections and etc.

 

[RPK]

Unless a dev is total jerk and neglects support for a game, I do not bash any game with a negative review in the steam toxic community really . thats the point

So... every game should be rated positive or not at all unless the dev's an asshole? Is that about right?

Do you understand that that makes reviews pointless?

It doesnt.

I'm enjoying indies, mostly - for a good reason. I dont support Eletronic Arts by principle. I'm trying to enjoy indies - big and small indies. Before I buy an indie, I check gameplay vids, YT, and read pro-con reviews. Then I decide if I pur chase it. If I do, and I dont like it after all, I'm not going to give a negative review cause I know it well - not only from my ex - how indies are struggling nowadays with sales. Your problem is that you want a rating system that is common for small , big indies and for AAAs.

This has nothing to do with Black Geysers alone . I did the same with other titles. Same would have happend with Realms of Beyond, too bad the project died. The black geyser team clearly stated in that steam post that poor reviews impact their sales. I heard it from an internal source too. As you can see , they seem to release fixes very, very often, so Ive no intention to fck them up further

If you dont know the wording of empathy, not my problem. Men tend to have a weaker empathy than women, but not zero .

EDIT: nope, Solasta isn't a small indie . Its founders are ex-Ubisoft, with major connections and etc.

So what is the cutoff in studio size where you can share your honest opinion about a game via a review?