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Black Mesa - legendary vaporware Half-Life remake finally out

thesheeep

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Loved the Zen reimagining/expansion. Felt like I was back in Metroid Prime. I agree that it gets less interesting once you start interacting with the Vortigaunts/Factory. Still, wonderful audio and visuals.
It was interesting at first.
But holy shit, does it draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon.

And with so little action, too. That section is widely considered the worst part of Black Mesa and for a good reason.
Completely takes the pacing of the game, lifts it up and breaks its back.

I prayed for it to be over, but then came the next section. And when that came to an end, I prayed again, but then came the next section, and the cycle repeated I don't even know how many times.
The actual final battle was nice, but they could have cut 80% of the crap that lead to it and the game would've been better for it.
 

Baron Dupek

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Loved the Zen reimagining/expansion. Felt like I was back in Metroid Prime. I agree that it gets less interesting once you start interacting with the Vortigaunts/Factory. Still, wonderful audio and visuals.
It was interesting at first.
But holy shit, does it draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon.

And with so little action, too. That section is widely considered the worst part of Black Mesa and for a good reason.
Completely takes the pacing of the game, lifts it up and breaks its back.

I prayed for it to be over, but then came the next section. And when that came to an end, I prayed again, but then came the next section, and the cycle repeated I don't even know how many times.
The actual final battle was nice, but they could have cut 80% of the crap that lead to it and the game would've been better for it.

Sounds like classic case of modding, where folks put a lot of time creating something useless but still put in the game because it would be bad if so much worktime was wasted.
Doesn't matter if that make whole game worse, or at least lower final score.
 

Tacgnol

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The irony of Black Mesa Xen is it's basically the opposite of Valve's Xen.

There were a lot of complaints that Valve's Xen was too short and underdeveloped. CC basically went the opposite way and made it too long and tried to be too clever with it.

There is probably a lesson to be learnt there.
 

toughasnails

Guest
Loved the Zen reimagining/expansion. Felt like I was back in Metroid Prime. I agree that it gets less interesting once you start interacting with the Vortigaunts/Factory. Still, wonderful audio and visuals.
Agreed, it turned out to be the best part of their remake.
 

LESS T_T

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They acknowledge some criticisms that Xen drags too long. According to them, one of the reasons behind that was how Xen introduced multiple new gimmicks/mechanics/monsters while throwing out multiple conventions the game has established over the "earthbound" levels. Per Valve's design principle, those mechanics had to be supported by sections for introduction (hey, here is jump mechanic), for teaching (safe platforms without risk of dying), and finally, for test (jump over deadly pits!).

They almost treated the Xen part as a new game (or expansion), and designed the intro so that even a new player who never played the earthbound levels can play it.
 

ciox

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A bit strange that they keep talking about "their version of Xen", as it looks different, plays different, has a completely different layout, different (delayed) enemy placements and density, and more.
It's similar to the new intro to Unforeseen Consequences, where you have to play around with flares and an invincible security guard for a much longer time, before you can get any real weapons. It's not a "version" as much as just a different area.
Most parts of the game follow the original promise of remastering the visuals and expanding the more cramped areas, but now and again the devs just go totally buckwild and soft-reboot the game.
 

agris

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They acknowledge some criticisms that Xen drags too long. According to them, one of the reasons behind that was how Xen introduced multiple new gimmicks/mechanics/monsters while throwing out multiple conventions the game has established over the "earthbound" levels. Per Valve's design principle, those mechanics had to be supported by sections for introduction (hey, here is jump mechanic), for teaching (safe platforms without risk of dying), and finally, for test (jump over deadly pits!).

They almost treated the Xen part as a new game (or expansion), and designed the intro so that even a new player who never played the earthbound levels can play it.
This belies the confidence of the BM devs. Well established rules and conventions are powerful when broken; throwing out old Xen design for the new because of this adherence to Valve’s design rules shows a fundamentally insecure team that probably lacks some creativity.

Establish a convention and then break it has been a powerful tool in games and narrative device in literature for a long time.
 

Denim Destroyer

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On a Rail in Black Mesa was completely neutered due to it "dragging on" then the development team spent years expanding Xen until it is 30% of the total game. I want to see the excuses the Black Mesa dev team throughout if someone points that out to them.
 

kangaxx

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Funny you mention it, On a Rail was where I got bored. I'll definitely pick it back up again at some point though... not a bad mindless shooter for the price I paid.
 

Psquit

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The Gonarch fight was tedious, a simple boss fight in the original becomes a 2 stage boss fight that goes on forever.
Edit: Also the Bullsquids ai is garbage, they butchered the thing.
 

Baron Dupek

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And now it receive... demake
https://www.pcgamer.com/half-life-r...ng-a-remake-in-the-original-half-life-engine/
"This is a GoldSRC project aimed to remake Black Mesa: Source with Half-Life assets on PC," says the mod's page on Moddb.com. "Our main vision for this is to give a new look to the original Half-Life in the original engine, adding more realism and immersion, making Half-Life more enjoyable and giving long life to GoldSRC."

The other goal is to make this version of Black Mesa playable for anyone on any sort of PC. Got an old laptop or ancient rig that doesn't run modern games all that well? You'll still be able to play Black Mesa Classic, provided your creaky PC is at least powerful enough to run the original Half-Life, which isn't a tall order.
A demo of the level "We've got hostiles" should be available soon: https://www.moddb.com/mods/bm-classic

why?
Just play Half Life you silly goose
 
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I finished Black Mesa twice, once before xen, once after.

The positives:
- Swapping the 357 and Shotgun in Office Complex was clever, since it oneshots vorts with a well place eye-shot and is much more satisfying to use on them than the shotgun
- The general look and feel of the game is a lot nicer, areas feel lived in, some nonsensical areas were made to make sense. They nailed the tone and atmosphere
- Good music, and by using Source they have the ability to do things like tailor music to different actions, like how they play some music that remains quiet until you go through a vent, then the action kicks in.
- Voice acting sounds very faithful to the original characters
- Some of the updated writing and voice lines are really good and flesh out the world a bit. Things like the emergency broadcasts show the scale and scope of the invasion
- People can hate on it, I get that, but I really like the "no weapons" intro bit. Flares were extremely underutilised in the Episodes (only really being useful in Episode 1 for a single chapter), so seeing their gameplay expanded made me happy
- The HEV bootup sequence

The negatives:
- They completely butchered the weapon feel. It feels like a weird mishmash of Source and GoldSrc. Weapon handling feels clunky, like every action feels like it's just slightly too long. The worst offender is the SMG which does WAY too little damage and takes forever to kill anything. What was the workhorse of the original, a fast, agile weapon with very good damage is now a clunky feeling peashooter. I hate it.
- The movement feels a lot slower and less agile
- Enemies seem to be a lot more bullet spongey than in the original. Valve's design philosophy seems to have gone more towards "make enemies tankier" over time, and they have followed it. I remember the HECU in the original were pretty tough, but even they couldn't reliably survive a double shotgun blast to the face. The SMG also cut through them with relative easy. Now that the SMG is useless, fighting them is a total chore, especially since in chapters like We've Got Hostiles, the SMG is one of your only weapons at that point.
- On A Rail was gutted. It's a shame because the original was basically fine. I don't get where this idea of "original on a rail drags on" comes from. It's about the same length as any other chapter, it's definitely shorter than some of the later ones. If any chapter drags on in the original game, it's surface tension, but nobody notices because it's such an amazing experience, especially the first time through. On a Rail might seem boring at first, because it's just trains and hallways, but you have things like the spiral fight with the marines (when the train is going up on a spinning platform), train-to-train fights, a few turret ambushes, and of course the whole rocket section. It's a pretty decent chapter, all things considered, definitely not the worst part of the game (that goes to Residue Processing, which they didn't reduce at all and actually made worse in some ways. Typical)
- Surface tension seems particularly weirdly done. It's much more broken up than the original, with big empty areas that are unpopulated until you do some objective like pressing a button. The original was pretty much nonstop action from start to finish. I feel this damages the pacing of the section and makes it much more of a slog than an action fest.
- The AI for Marines seems to be significantly worse. I think it's just using basic Combine AI. Marines in the original would do things like drop grenades at their feet when damaged, they would have the basic ability to move around and flank, and you could sometimes listen to their radio chatter to hear things like "I'm hit" or "grenade out". all of that basically doesn't exist. They have a bunch of generic "we're gonna kill you, come out" style barks during combat (I'm surprised they don't say "never should have come here!" with how generic they are), and don't exhibit any of the more interesting HECU behaviour. Maybe I have just been unlucky, but I haven't seen them really do any new tricks either. They sort of just stand there and shoot, while advancing on you, similar to the Combine.
- Xen drags on WAY too long and the bosses are underwhelming. The factory was also the low point of the entire game for me, even worse than residue processing.
- Limited long-jump module timing is annoying. I also get triggered by using double-space rather than jump and crouch like the original, with no way to change it. When I complained about this on the forums, they told me it was "better", as if 20+ years of muscle memory don't matter. It almost makes me feel like they have contempt for the original jump module. I understand limiting spamming jumps for multiplayer, since that absolutely dominated the original deathmatch meta, but in singleplayer Xen it's just annoying and adds tedium to jumps.

Things I'm indifferent to:
- Addition of Sprint
- 357 Iron Sights
- Most of the structural changes that aren't outright bad. Some of the original levels had weird parts and mostly these are slightly better but sometimes worse

Overall, It's okay. Not amazing. I still prefer the original. I wouldn't say it's actively bad. If someone asks me if I recommend playing it I would say yes, but I don't agree with the general consensus among gamers (not this forum, the general gaming public) that it's a better, more advanced and up to date remake of the "crusty original". It certainly looks better and I could see why normies would prefer it to the (actually kind of nice looking) outdated graphics of the original. But in many ways it's inferior to the original and it seems they may not have fully understood exactly what made the original so memorable.

Yes, it's worth playing. I would say it's worth the $10 they want for it. That might seem odd given how negative I have been to it. But it's still fun, competently made, and mostly stands up on it's own as a fun shooter. It mainly suffers when you compare it to the original.
 
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Dayyālu

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- Enemies seem to be a lot more bullet spongey than in the original. Valve's design philosophy seems to have gone more towards "make enemies tankier" over time, and they have followed it. I remember the HECU in the original were pretty tough, but even they couldn't reliably survive a double shotgun blast to the face. The SMG also cut through them with relative easy. Now that the SMG is useless, fighting them is a total chore, especially since in chapters like We've Got Hostiles, the SMG is one of your only weapons at that point.
- The AI for Marines seems to be significantly worse. I think it's just using basic Combine AI. Marines in the original would do things like drop grenades at their feet when damaged, they would have the basic ability to move around and flank, and you could sometimes listen to their radio chatter to hear things like "I'm hit" or "grenade out". all of that basically doesn't exist. They have a bunch of generic "we're gonna kill you, come out" style barks during combat (I'm surprised they don't say "never should have come here!" with how generic they are), and don't exhibit any of the more interesting HECU behaviour. Maybe I have just been unlucky, but I haven't seen them really do any new tricks either. They sort of just stand there and shoot, while advancing on you, similar to the Combine.

The AI for the Combine soldiers was based on the HECU's routines, bar some of the most peculiar systems (the nemesis thing with Alien Soldiers and the grenade trap). I personally find the HECU more interesting to fight because they're far more mobile than the Combine, that are by design slower, with less effective weapons compared to the player (it's an interesting experiment to equalize the stats) and their grenades are essentially useless between the enormous delay and visual cues.

Marines aren't even weaker if I remember right, maybe even tankier. They're faster, the maps support better flanking and the voice system adds immersion. Rarely do the Combine manage to show off their AI or anything, because they die incredibly fast and the maps often leave them without cover and in subpar positions. It's kinda amusing to set them against AI enemies (zombies or antlions) and seeing patterns you will never experience because the player is a blender of destruction.
 

ADL

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And now it receive... demake
https://www.pcgamer.com/half-life-r...ng-a-remake-in-the-original-half-life-engine/
"This is a GoldSRC project aimed to remake Black Mesa: Source with Half-Life assets on PC," says the mod's page on Moddb.com. "Our main vision for this is to give a new look to the original Half-Life in the original engine, adding more realism and immersion, making Half-Life more enjoyable and giving long life to GoldSRC."

The other goal is to make this version of Black Mesa playable for anyone on any sort of PC. Got an old laptop or ancient rig that doesn't run modern games all that well? You'll still be able to play Black Mesa Classic, provided your creaky PC is at least powerful enough to run the original Half-Life, which isn't a tall order.
A demo of the level "We've got hostiles" should be available soon: https://www.moddb.com/mods/bm-classic

why?
Just play Half Life you silly goose
Has Xen ever been significantly expanded on in GoldSRC? I could actually see this ending up being the definitive way to play Half-Life.
 

Perkel

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Uplink>>>>>>>HL1>>HL1:Opposing Force >>>>>>HL1:Blue Shift>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HL2>>>HL2:EP1>>>>>>>>>>HL2:EP2.
 
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Uplink>>>>>>>HL1>>HL1:Opposing Force >>>>>>HL1:Blue Shift>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HL2>>>HL2:EP1>>>>>>>>>>HL2:EP2.

This is mostly true, but I would put Episode 2 as the quintessential Half-Life 2 experience. It has the tightest map design, the most enemy variety, and the best "setpieces" (which sounds really pretentious, but HL2 onwards has been all about setpieces). I would say the White Forest fight is the best HL2 era combat we ever got.

The others I largely agree though. Uplink is excellent, as is HL1. Opposing Force is in some ways almost as good as HL1, a very small number of parts of it are better than HL1, but it gets really bogged down, especially in the last quarter of the game where the map design becomes terrible corridoors filled with extremely tanky Race-X aliens who can basically one-shot you. Blue shift isn't even offensive (and I would say the worst parts of blue shift are better than the worst parts of Op4), the problem is it's just....nothing. A bland map pack without much substance. No major highs, no major lows. It's like if an AI generated a bunch of Half-Life levels.

I would put Black Mesa below Half-Life 2 Episode 2, but above HL2 and above Ep1. I feel Ep1 is the worst Half-Life game, it's sort of the Blue-Shift of the HL2 games - largely bland, inoffensive, and uninteresting. Stuff just sort of happens in it.
 

Lemming42

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What's so good about Uplink? Haven't played it for ages. I do remember liking it, especially the outdoor segment with the battle against the troops in the freight yard, but was it that good?
 
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What's so good about Uplink? Haven't played it for ages. I do remember liking it, especially the outdoor segment with the battle against the troops in the freight yard, but was it that good?
I think it's mainly the level design. It's really tight with no wastage, and the enemy placements are basically perfect
Is there a mod that add Uplink to the core HL1 single player campaign?
I haven't played this, so can't vouch for it's quality, but try this
 

Perkel

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What's so good about Uplink? Haven't played it for ages. I do remember liking it, especially the outdoor segment with the battle against the troops in the freight yard, but was it that good?

It was effectively vertical slice of HL1 released for public which was not "demo" of game. The pacing, the simple premise of story, combat and level design basically everything you love about HL1 but better without waste products. It is not long but by far this is the best HL can get and there isn't anything in HL1 that can top it.
 

JDR13

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I heard someone was working on porting Uplink to the current version of Black Mesa. Not sure if that ever got done.
 

schru

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Half-Life > Half-Life 2 > Episode One > Episode Two > Uplink >>> Opposing Force > Lost Coast >>> Blue Shift >>> Half-Life: Source >>>>>>>>> Decay.

Alyx ?
 
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Half-Life > Half-Life 2 > Episode One > Episode Two > Uplink >>> Opposing Force > Lost Coast >>> Blue Shift >>> Half-Life: Source >>>>>>>>> Decay.

Alyx ?

If I had to rate Alyx with the bunch, I would go

Uplink > Half-Life > Opposing Force > Half-Life 2: Episode 2 > Half-Life 2 > Half-Life 2: Lost Coast > Black Mesa > HL:Alyx > Half-Life 2: Episode 1 > Decay > Blue Shift > HL:Source (it's literally pointless and broken, it should be at the end of the list)

Alyx has a lot of potential and some good bits, but the gameplay is mostly hollow and empty.

Also, why do you rate Decay so badly? It's not exactly great but it's definitely better than Blue Shift. Decay at least tries to do something new with Coop play and 2-player puzzles, which are sometimes interesting. Blue Shift offers nothing of value at all to the series and is just a slog.

And yes, I am not memeing by putting the Lost Cost tech demo pretty high on the list. I genuinely think that, by being so short and to the point, it's a punchy and interesting HL2 experience without all the filler and interactive cutscene crap. A decently made experience with good verticality and the cathedral arena is a nice change of pace because it's defensive in nature rather than putting you on the offensive, which is rare in the HL2 era games. HL2 actually plays quite well when they are doing the "enemies coming from every direction" type gameplay, and I'm surprised they don't do it more often. I think it happens 3 times total in the main campaign.

Also, Lost Coast also doesn't have a single physics puzzle that I can remember, other than the one to start the main encounter. That only helps the experience. It reminds me a lot of Surface Tension, which most people remember fondly because it's non-stop action and the tension keeps rising constantly - first you have lots of soldiers, then airstrikes, then tanks. And yet it never feels like a slog. I feel like Lost Cost accomplished mostly the same feel (as did the White Forest fight in ep2) because they weren't broken up by stupid physics puzzles every 2-5 minutes.
 
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