The Dark Eye Blackguards - turn-based tactical RPG set in The Dark Eye world

[MicoSelva]

I hope this game turns out to be more than just about combat. Everybody seems to focus on this one aspect of RPGs, while the rest suffers. In the end this makes boring games.

 

[Grunker]

I hope this game turns out to be more than just about combat. Everybody seems to focus on this one aspect of RPGs, while the rest suffers.

Yeah man, I hear you. The problem we've been having these last 10 years is too little focus on story and too much on gameplay

Nah man, I get what you're saying. But I, for one, am glad the industry seems to have shifted gears towards a combat focus. Some of my favourite RPGs are combat centric.

 

[MicoSelva]

I, for one, am glad the industry seems to have shifted gears towards a combat focus. Some of my favourite RPGs are combat centric.

Mine too, but RPGs have so much more to offer than just combat, and it seems such a waste to focus only on this aspect.

In my dream RPG combat is just one if the means to achieve goals, and not the core around which the rest of the game revolves. I know many of the classic games were made like this (Goldbox, for example), because of combat-centric D&D roots, but I guess I am a storyfag first and foremost and diving deep into a (good) story and (interesting) setting will always be my main source of fun in these games - and yes I also like adventure games which have these features.

When I read about games such as Expeditions Conquistador or Legends of Eisenwald, I don't really see them as RPGs, but rather as strategy games with stats and dialogues, just as Mass Effect games are shooters with stats and dialogues (I could argue about ME1).

Almost every update about P:E mechanics we've had so far was about combat or sub-systems serving it (resting). It astounds me how much effort is put into getting this one aspect of the game right and I'm wondering how awesome a game we could get if other parts were perfected the same way.

 

[Rake]

Almost every update about P:E mechanics we've had so far was about combat or sub-systems serving it (resting). It astounds me how much effort is put into getting this one aspect of the game right and I'm wondering how awesome a game we could get if other parts were perfected the same way.

Well, it's Obsidian. I cannot imagine a free reign Avellone/Ziets collaboration game not having a good story. Also Tim Cain is also good at creating settings (Fallout,Arcanum).
Combat was always the weaker part of every Obsidian game, so the increased focus on game mechanics is a good thing as far i'm conserned, and i'm storyfag to the max.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

When I read about games such as Expeditions Conquistador or Legends of Eisenwald, I don't really see them as RPGs, but rather as strategy games with stats and dialogues, just as Mass Effect games are shooters with stats and dialogues (I could argue about ME1).

I can't say much about Expeditions: Conquistador, didn't get a chance to play it yet, but hey, what would in your opinion make our Legends of Eisenwald more RPG? To me, a strategic game is more like HOMM. Many keep calling our game a strategy, ok, now with stats and dialogs, but it's really not, there are just a few strategic elements. Moreover, while combat does play an important role but it's more story driven actually.

 

[MicoSelva]

I can't say much about Expeditions: Conquistador, didn't get a chance to play it yet, but hey, what would in your opinion make our Legends of Eisenwald more RPG? To me, a strategic game is more like HOMM. Many keep calling our game a strategy, ok, now with stats and dialogs, but it's really not, there are just a few strategic elements. Moreover, while combat does play an important role but it's more story driven actually.

So it is a story-driven strategy game with stats and dialogs?

I may have rushed with putting Your game into the same bag as Expeditions: Conquistador. I'll take a closer look at it and see if it fits my RPG template (and if not, I'll try to explain why).

EDIT: do I get beta access if I preorder now?

 

[Grunker]

I may have rushed with putting Your game into the same bag as Expeditions: Conquistador.

Why? Both are more about traditional RPG combat elements and Choose Your Own Adventure stories than they are about their strategy elements. They share a lot more similarities than differences.

What you should be doing isn't talking about how one of them is more RPG than the other. What you should be doing is using these new types of hard-to-classify-games as an expression of what some of us have been saying all along: drop that fucking bullshit genre-discussion - it makes no sense. All these new, undefinable games show how idiotic the battle for definitions is. It makes the Codex look like teenage metal fans discussing whether some crack-head hitting the drums is metal or not.

What matters to you? Which mechanics make you tick? Stop calling the collection of those an RPG and start identifying games on whether they have those or not instead. Perhaps the C&C fags and Combat-fags wouldn't be at each other's throat so much if they didn't keep fighting about who had the right to call their own favourite mechanic RPG.

One of the mechanics I really like is Choose Your Own Adventure in a skill/stat driven environment. Another is turn-based combat where your actions outside of combat (like leveling, injuries and choices in the CYOA) has an influence on the combat. These are the reasons I'm exited for Conquistador and Legends.

It's one thing that newfags keep trying to engage in the faulty discussion of what an RPG is. They can be easily forgiven. It's another entirely when oldfags who should know better do.

 

[Berekän]

In any case, Daedalic being an adventure games developer, I'm fairly certain they will give us a fleshed out story, and not just a faint excuse to throw battles one after the other (or so I hope).

 

[Grunker]

In any case, Daedalic being an adventure games developer, I'm fairly certain they will give us a fleshed out story, and not just a faint excuse to throw battles one after the other (or so I hope).

All their focus on "misfits saving the world" implies a huge focus on story. Has anyone actually doubted story will be a focus of this game? I thought Mico was just making generalizations.

 

[Berekän]

Well he pointed out that he was worried that they might just focus on the combat side of the game, and I just commented that even if their main focus is the combat I don't think they'll leave the story as something to add later.

 

[Aterdux Entertainment]

So it is a story-driven strategy game with stats and dialogs?

I may have rushed with putting Your game into the same bag as Expeditions: Conquistador. I'll take a closer look at it and see if it fits my RPG template (and if not, I'll try to explain why).

EDIT: do I get beta access if I preorder now?

Well, story-driven yes, strategy - not really But anyway, I got really curious about your RPG template and would love to hear your opinion about our game and more details about your template. During our Kickstarter campaign last year I learned here on Codex quite a bit about CRPG, thanks to many here. But who knows, maybe I can learn something more? I still have lots to learn about games - both as a player and as a developer.

And yes, you get access to the beta if you pre-order now.

 

[MicoSelva]

It's one thing that newfags keep trying to engage in the faulty discussion of what an RPG is. They can be easily forgiven. It's another entirely when oldfags who should know better do.

This is the first time I've been called (or rather implied to be) an oldfag on The Codex. /single manly tear

Don't be silly, Grunker. If we don't put games in appropriate genre drawers, how will we know which games should RPGCodex (note the RPG part) cover?

Note: the above was a joke.

I agree that trying to make games fit a specific genre can be silly sometimes, but if a developer states his game belongs to a specific genre, it should be carefully examined for validity, or we will end with RPGs being games about riding on a horse and killing things with a sword, to paraphrase the classic.

I don't have qualms with Blackguards being an RPG (I don't really know enough atm to judge that), but I am hoping it will not be too combat-focused.

As for Legends of Eisenwald, I need to check the game first, but I'll post my impressions in an appropriate thread, since I don't want to derail this one any more.

 

[Grunker]

Don't be silly, Grunker. If we don't put games in appropriate genre drawers, how will we know which games should RPGCodex (note the RPG part) cover?

Oh for fucks sa-

Note: the above was a joke.

*uncocks gun*

I agree that trying to make games fit a specific genre can be silly sometimes, but if a developer states his game belongs to a specific genre, it should be carefully examined for validity, or we will end with RPGs being games about riding on a horse and killing things with a sword, to paraphrase the classic.

We already do. Being hellbent on arbitrary definition is how we somehow ended up being in the same target group as BioWare social.

Anyway, labels are retarded, and this is reflected in the discussion that surround the attempt to label.

 

[abnaxus]

It seems this haven't been posted yet. Some gameplay.

 

[evdk]

Hopefully towns will be more than the one static screen they've shown.

 

[Haba]

The concept seems solid and I love the portraits. Time will tell how the game itself is. I don't have high hopes on German storytelling and humour, unfortunately...

 

[MicoSelva]

Paused at 3:01.
1. "Rangers are excellent range fighters (...) experts in melee combat."
2. Every text on character creation screen, except one line about traps and another about wilderness, concerns combat.
*sigh*

 

[Grunker]

Paused at 3:01.
1. "Rangers are excellent range fighters (...) experts in melee combat."
2. Every text on character creation screen, except one line about traps and another about wilderness, concerns combat.
*sigh*

Aaaaah, FUCK

Wait... what's the bad part?

I get that you personally want non-combat skills and shit, but don't be that guy (the one that criticizes cats for not being dogs).

 

[abnaxus]

I don't see the problem either. In RoA/Drakensang Elves could be experts in combat, magic and melee all at the same time.

 

[Grunker]

I don't see the problem either. In RoA/Drakensang Elves could be experts in combat, magic and melee all at the same time.

His problem is lack of non-combat skills. And I think Mico misunderstood something fundamentally about this game. I said there would be a narrative. But character system is almost certainly exclusively focused on combat.

 

[abnaxus]

How about a Codex interview with these guys?

 

[Grunker]

How about a Codex interview with these guys?

Good idea. I'm swarmed with exam stuff right now, but if no one else picks it up I'll try to get on it after I'm done killing the last bits of academic info from my brain with alcohol after the exams.

 

[Roguey]

Hopefully towns will be more than the one static screen they've shown.

They mentioned in an interview that they will not. Low-budget Euroshovelware ya know.

Edit: Skipped around a bit in the video. Awful camera and radial menu FTL. Dialogue was also thoroughly uninteresting. Not surprised in the slightest.

 

[theSavant]

Visually it looks very high quality... but the feeling is: it's still just another Project Eternity... or Torment:Tides of Numera... or Baldurs Gate:EE ... or Wasteland 2 ... or Divinity: Original Sin... or Dark Triad: Dragons Death...or whatever.

What has happened to Ego Shooters the last couple of years now happens to the RPG genre: dozens of clones, one more dull than the other...

 

[Kem0sabe]

Coming from these guys i would expect a more story centric rpg with combat taking second place, because that is what they are good at. Not sure what to expect after seeing the video.