From Software Bloodborne. Discuss or die!

[Perkel]

Bloodborne reduced the amount of character customization that had existed in Demon's/Dark Souls while making combat even more dependent on the player's physical skill rather than the player-character's abilities. If Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are borderline RPGs, then Bloodborne isn't an RPG at all.

You talk about progression mechanics not role playing elements. Souls games are RPGs because there is C&C. Not that much but there is. DS3 even had 4 different endings depending on your choices.

 

[aweigh]

c and c does not = RPG

 

[Black Angel]

So, what is an RPG?

 

[aweigh]

a combined template of mechanics that were originally cobbled together from the decaying corpse of the adventure game genre and then animated with the desire to reproduce dungeons and dragons in an electronic video game.

what the codex calls "c and c" is just adventure game mechanics, nothing new, and has little to do with what makes an RPG an RPG.

 

[Hyperion]

It's pretty fuckin' good regardless of what you call it.

 

[Elwro]

It's also one of the best Lovecraftian games ever made, without any name-dropping, but relying on the background ideas and mysteries you slowly unravel.

 

[Silva]

RPGs are overrated.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Indeed. The Panzerschrek is the superior sounding anti-tank weapon.

 

[Talby]

Yeah i heard that game has severe issues with holding even 30fps. Though i played both DS and DaS on PS3 (before PC release) and those games too had framerate problems (dat blightown)

You won't have much trouble with Bloodborne then, the framerate issues are far less severe than DeS/DkS on PS3.

 

[Perkel]

what the codex calls "c and c" is just adventure game mechanics, nothing new, and has little to do with what makes an RPG an RPG.

Choice is inherent part of RPG and you can't have rpg without choice. In fact you can have role playing game without any stats at all.

 

[aweigh]

my fave RPG has always been Mario 2: The Lost Levels it has tons of choices and no stats

 

[Silva]

Choice is inherent part of RPG and you can't have rpg without choice. In fact you can have role playing game without any stats at all.

This.

It's ironic how many games not classified as RPGs have more meaningful role playing than a lot of self-entitled RPGs out there (coff coff that turd people call Baldurs Gate coff coff).

 

[Jaedar]

Maria is best boss in entire soulsborne series.

This is what makes bloodborne an rpg.

 

[Silva]

And the Doll best waifu.

 

[Hyperion]

ONLY WAIFU.

Ludwig gets best boss strictly for the second phase music transition imo.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, that transition is kickass. I also like Gaacoigne's, but Ludwig is the best.

Btw Perkel , has the console arrived yet? Is Gascoigne already raping you? Let us know.

 

[Hyperion]

ONLY WAIFU.

Hard choice between the Doll and the Maiden in Black, but I think I'll go with the Doll. Love the voice actress.

It's the doll and not even close.

Gorgeous, too.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

So, what is an RPG?

RPG is the name applied to a form of game that emerged from miniatures wargaming, following the introduction of exploration and character progression/customization (squad-based wargaming already had character equipment/inventory, in addition to combat).

a combined template of mechanics that were originally cobbled together from the decaying corpse of the adventure game genre and then animated with the desire to reproduce dungeons and dragons in an electronic video game.

what the codex calls "c and c" is just adventure game mechanics, nothing new, and has little to do with what makes an RPG an RPG.

Colossal Cave Adventure and the adventure genre in general were inspired in part by Dungeons & Dragons, and had no impact on the early development of CRPGs. Though you're correct that the Codex tends to praise later CRPGs that adopted adventure game mechanics.

You talk about progression mechanics not role playing elements. Souls games are RPGs because there is C&C. Not that much but there is. DS3 even had 4 different endings depending on your choices.

Choice & consequences are an emergent property of RPG mechanics. Any game with RPG mechanics will necessarily have C&C, but there are many types of games with C&C other than RPGs. Or even things such as Choose Your Own Adventure books that fall short of being games but certainly possess a considerable amount of C&C.

Although RPGs are my favorite genre of computer game, I enjoy games in many other genres, and so don't see any need to claim that every computer game I like falls under the rubric of 'CRPG'. Demon's Souls is on my list of top 50 games of all time, and Dark Souls isn't far behind, but I consider them at most borderline RPGs due in large part to the high level of physical skill demanded on the part of the player by the action-based combat of the series. I would still rate Bloodborne above Dark Souls II, but I would have liked it better if it had retained the greater character customization and versatility of the earlier games, so that I could have played it in the slower, methodical manner I had previously used.

 

[Perkel]

Yeah, that transition is kickass. I also like Gaacoigne's, but Ludwig is the best.

Btw Perkel , has the console arrived yet? Is Gascoigne already raping you? Let us know.

Arrived. I had internet outage for half a day and most of night.
Almost finished First part of Yahram and i can go via second tombstone of awakening to second part of game. What i have left in fist part of Yahram is that chick with pendant in cathedra but she seems totally optional as i can progress without that boss fight.

So far the most trouble i had with was that fucking monster on bridge. It was my first boss essentially and only once i beat it i noticed that it was essentially totally optional boss as there was no road after beating him.

As for Gascoigne. If this is the dude on that small cementarry which changes mid battle i killed him without dying. His first hunter form was more annoying than second as once he started to combo he often uses gun to stagger. Either way my sawblade worked well on him in short mode.

Finished also first chalice dungeon (bosses dude with blades for hands, 3 dudes, and fire rat) died few times but overall it was fun.

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As for the game... Holy fuck. It is what i said almost constantly. It shows on every screen, location etc. that they took their sweet time with this and this is where most of creative design went instead of DS2 or even DS3. DS3 is supposed to be "new" game compared to BB but graphically etc. Bloodborne is level above DS3. Every location is jampacked with stuff from barrels, torches, lamps, carts to shit, bloodstains etc. Even DS3 compared to it is bare. And that baroque artstyle is fucking disgustingly good. Coupled with theme of the game, blood splathered everywhere it creates really fucking good mix of art and technology. Also WTF From. Characters in DS3 look like shit but here they look best they ever done. IDK what went wrong with lighting engine in DS3 for characters to look this shitty compared to BB ones.

Biggest holy fuck moment for me was that i got second lamp like 2 hours after first and i used first lamp thanks to shortcuts. This is how Demon Souls 1 worked and they at least in first level repeated it completely which i fucking love.
Shortcuts only work when you actually need to use shortcuts which is why shortcuts were something good in DaS 1 and DS and didn't work in DS3 and especially in DS2. Overall lamp are stretched out a lot and from what i play you must find shortcuts to deal with locations which i love. That feeling of "AHA" is what i wanted from DS2 and got barely with DS3.

Level design is even better than DS3 mostly thanks to not using every minute bonfire. Thanks to use of shortcuts and shitload of small optional areas it feels big and not linear. Especially since you a lot move up and down rather than forward and backward. You often see parts of locations from different sides. Till now i still don't know how to access that gate after you leave first lab and it is fine i will find it maybe later.

Combat system. I dropped sword and board playstyle years ago so getting used to Bloodborne was quick and easy. Revenge system for health is fun as monster do heck a lot of damage (sometimes 3/4 of hp if you don't recover quickly via attack). I am kind of split on firearms. For now i use just a pistol and it is way to easy to get bigger monster into position where i can deal "vicious" attack or whatever. Just wait for them to attack and fire. Easy. Too easy. Some monster though are immune for it but for most it works.

Tested few weapons but so far sawblade (my first pick) was best out of them. Then i got Riflespear and it really fucking good complements my play-style with that charged thrust dash that does shitload of damage from really safe distane. Thanks to that dash thrust i beat almost whole chalice dungeon without issues and it does have that rifle part so i can fish for special attacks while oponent is down.

Also someone mentioned parry ? Can you parry with all weapons or you need special weapon with parry ?

From what i see like people said builds are somewhat limited. I like gem system a lot it seems like a lot more interesting than upgrade system from Rest of souls games. I mean i can change my physical damage to fire damage with just one gem and if i won't like it i just switch gem to other.

So far i fucking love it. After DS3 i felt Souls fatigue but here it is non existent. I think DS problem isn't story etc. Just that it uses same things constantly, same weapons, armors, gems for upgrade etc. Here you have every single weapon armor, item etc. new.

BTW people how to know i have installed Old Hunters ? I bought GOTY edition but i fear that it contains vanilla game and DLC key that is not in box. I noticed that i can summon "Old Hunter" NPCs in various places to help me. Does that mean i have installed and working Old Hunters DLC ?

 

[Perkel]

Choice & consequences are an emergent property of RPG mechanics. Any game with RPG mechanics will necessarily have C&C, but there are many types of games with C&C other than RPGs. Or even things such as Choose Your Own Adventure books that fall short of being games but certainly possess a considerable amount of C&C.

Sorry but this is bunch of cocks and bollocks.

C&C is representation of GM interacting with player.

Everyone fucking points D&D books and systems but they fucking forget GM. GM and players are what makes RPG not which systems they are using. Interaction between GM and players is what makes something RPG or not. Better or worse RPG isn't due to system used but experience of GM or wait for it... wealth of choices presented by computer game to player (emulating good GM).

Computer RPGs TRY to recreate that interaction between player and GM by building scripted interactions.

When GM gives you choice to look out around room and roll dice because he wants you to find hidden door in wall GM interaction is what makes here RPG not dice roll. Dice roll and system literally have nothing to do with RPG.

Unfortunately therm RPG became slapstick for progression system thus we have retardation like jRPG which basically adventure game with stats as there is usually 0 choice and game is completely linear. aRPG action game with progression system which doesn't have usually at all choices. sRPG. progression system + group battle (though in this case in sRPG genre there is a lot of games that do indeed have C&C).

Thanks to that RPG = progression we have people talking about Gran Turismo 5 in reviews about CAR RPG. People reviewing Call of Duty 4 talked about it becoming RPG. yada yada yada.

RPG. Role Playing Game. It requires GM and players or representation of GM in form of script or something and players.

On other hand you have Heavy Rain game which is totally RPG as game presents you shitload of meaningful C&C (i don't talk about button presses), The Void/Tension that gives you complete freedom not only in how to tackle events but also which ending even could be said is "good" and few other not named RPG because progression mechanics were not something developers had in mind. While Heavy Rain is shit generally The Void is one of the best games ever.

Other good example is Divinity:Original Sin. IT had mediacore story, weak progression system but game gave you shitload of choices not only when it came to combat but also to problem solving.

 

[Perkel]

How to parry then ? L1 is change mode, L2 is second weapon while double handed riflespear is just shoot.

 

[Elwro]

Also, now you see where the Undead Settlement in DS3 came from.

 

[Zep Zepo]

How to parry then ? L1 is change mode, L2 is second weapon while double handed riflespear is just shoot.

Don't you stagger...with gunz?

Zep--

 

[Perkel]

How to parry then ? L1 is change mode, L2 is second weapon while double handed riflespear is just shoot.

Don't you stagger...with gunz?

Zep--

Yeah by parry i meant with weapons not shooting someone in face. I see now that there isn't any weapon parry.

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Yeah i finished that bridge fucker without any upgrades. Issue wasn't really my hp or weapon damage but his moveset and camera. IDK why the fuck From can put 2 separate targeting points on his head and belly but can't in middle of legs. When you get close to him camera points out into sky and you can hardy fight him upclose due to that.

I finished him fishing for his slow long attacks rather than fight in close combat.

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Also that rolling fat piece of shit with hammer. From monster design is fucking great.

 

[Elwro]

I think in Bloodborne I enjoyed more the fights with unique humanoid opponents than those with the bosses.