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Development Info Bloodlines - multiplayer mode debunked!

Stark

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Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
770
Ortchel said:
Yes, they're 'fantastical' but if you go by that logic then pretty much all fiction is fantasy.

In any case, you know what I meant.

I notice it's always a good idea to put in alot of disclaimer if you don't want Volourn to prey on your post. I know what you mean, but...

Ortchel said:
I, at least, don't lump vampires in with the rest of medieval fantasy. Vampires are sort of part of a gothic sub-genre, if you ask me, along with witches and all that trash.

he he. They do have vampires in TES series, and it's very much a mediaval fantasy setting. They also have vampires in BG2. :)

speaking of mp, I couldn't care less. Even if it has one, I'll not play it.
 

Volourn

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Dress it up all you want; it's fantasy. Plain, and simple. As Spaz said, it's not "high fantasy' ala FR and most of D&D; but it *is* fantasy. Period.


"but if you go by that logic then pretty much all fiction is fantasy."

Are you being stupid on purpose? No, going by 'that logic' most fiction would not be fantasy. But, vampires et all. are fantasy.


"I think he's referring to epic fantasy."

What kind of silly sub section of fantasy is that?

The biggest difference is that Vampire is 'modern day fantasy' while D&D is 'Dark Ages fantasy'.

Both still fantasy.

This shouldn't even be a discussion. I wasn't insulting the game either. It's fantasy. Period.

Next.
 

Ortchel

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I doubt I could have possibly been more specific, you're just looking for a fight per usual.

:arrow:

They do have vampires in TES series, and it's very much a medieval fantasy setting.

Yeah, I never thought much of that, or the werewolves in Daggerfall and Bloodmoon. I guess I just associate that stuff with Halloween and not medieval (look Volourn, I'm being unnecessarily specific, just for your benefit!) fantasy. It breaks my suspension of disbelief.
 

HanoverF

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MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Wow, some of those Blue's News folks give Ex a run for his stupid money :P
 

Stark

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770
Ortchel said:
Yeah, I never thought much of that, or the werewolves in Daggerfall and Bloodmoon. I guess I just associate that stuff with Halloween and not medieval

if it helps, I rarely think of vampires in medieval crpg setting too, until, again, it was pointed out by Volourn. :lol:
 

Ortchel

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HanoverF, maybe you can explain this to me, whats with the recent surge of abuse being aimed at Exitium?

Or is he just the target of the moment for the Codex's special brand of pointless scapegoating?
 

Jinxed

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I dunno, I think multiplayer was something they considered. So little info was given out before that it looked like they never really took it seriously. It was never part of the grand design.

People whining about the lack of multiplayer in such games don't have anything better to do. There are quite a few mp oriented fps games out there that bascially give an fps player everything they need. So, you'll boot it up and play 4 or 5 times before you decide to go back to playing counterstrike? Fuck that. An fps game can only be succesful in one way these days: Total focus on the gameplay, dynamics, balance and netcode. Even the mp in Painkiller which was given a decent amout of focus and devtime flopped because of a shitty netcode in comparison to the other games out there. No one ever hyped vamp's mp, as far as I'm concered, we aren't missing a thing.
 

Seven

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Ortchel said:
HanoverF, maybe you can explain this to me, whats with the recent surge of abuse being aimed at Exitium?

Or is he just the target of the moment for the Codex's special brand of pointless scapegoating?

Some of it he deserves (although he has done a great job of trying to use a measured tone while posting, except with VD). I don't think any one takes the abuse to heart (for long any way), it's just part of posting in the Codex; the only difference this time is that we have site admin divided, and arguing. You either get used to it, or you get gone. I hope by now it's something that we can put behind us.
 

Surlent

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Jul 21, 2004
Messages
825
No multiplayer ?
It's okay, better this way they don't try to do everything like in Arcanum.

Multiplayer would make good part of expansion or free addon/patch.
Or fan mod, though that could require hell lot of work.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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Man, that Hobby guy needs his genitals X-Rayed.

Remember folks, RPGs were designed from the beginning to be multiplayer. And Vampire is based on a pen and paper RPG, entirely built around multiplayer concepts. Removing multiplayer utterly destroys the very definition of the term "RPG" by providing players with scripted dialogue tree, and pre-built roles. As the father of RPG Gary Gygax said, the vast majority of video game RPGs aren't RPGs because you don't play a role you want, you play a role that is pre-written for you. Everything is scripted, like a Choose your own adventure book.

While the part about the Choose-Your-Own-Adventure thing is true with most games(big nod to BioWare on that), multiplayer lets you play a role better than single player games? I've played a few MMORPGs in the past, and several MUDs, and I can't really see where anyone would get the idea that you can focus on a role better than you can in games like Geneforge or Fallout.

specially if those quests could've been created by some mod tools, for endless replay value. What keeps NWN from being great to a lot of people? it's boring. Click and watch gameplay. What keeps the bulk of FPS games shallow? Lack of roleplaying's depth

What would make a lot of FPS games horribly unbalanced? A CRPG level system tossed in, that's what. Imagine being a level 12 Bulky Tank Grunt trying to protect the flag from a Level 20 Zoom Zoom Runner.

First-person games are my fav because I feel much more immersed in the game world than in a third-person game.

So sayeth those folks who have no imagination.

Multiplayer RPGs have all been piss poor so far, that's very true. But there are lots of reasons for this. First off, in pen and paper games, you're acting out the roles, which can be fun in itself. Online, your acting is merely text on a screen. Not nearly as charismatic or interesting, IMO. For this reason, having NPC party members who can provide scripted professionally acted dialogue can be much more interesting than human players who do nothing but "click-n-watch" with you. But Bloodlines doesn't have a party system, if i'm not mistaken. It's just you.

Okay, here's the funny thing. He's beating the pen-and-paper drums hardcore old skool, then he goes on to bitch about how you're only one character in Bloodlines. WTF. How many characters do you play in pen-and-paper? Most people just play one.

Second off, being a party member, and not the party leader, can be boring in most multipalyer CRPGs since you're not making any choices. You're just "click-n-watching". The gameplay is sluggish, the combat is simplistic. But in an FPS, you're in the action. You got stuff to do. And with the Source engine, you have voice chat. Heck, Source was supposed to come with revolutionary new voice chat tech.. dunno what happened to it.

Meanwhile, your stats don't mean shit. Voice chat technology, while a nice thing to have, will most likely, in online role-playing will most likely result in:

  • Bobolf the Prairie Elf: Hark! Hark! For sunder comes the lady of Rockspring Keep, and what wonderous delight it is for us to be here!

    GrundleGuy37: Dude, you are such a fag.

And FPS gameplay isn't simplistic? You point, you shoot, you dodge. Every so often, you camp or run around looking for some object you might need.

But if it comes back, then we'll be able to hear localised voice chat that comes out of your player character's mouth, interacts with the local environment, etc. In other words, it would recreate the fact that human speech usually comes out of your mouth! Now THAT would be cool roleplaying, that's immersion.

Yeah.. Imagine how immersive it'd be when that hot, scandily clad wizard chick on your screen opens her mouth and it's really a gruff dude's voice that comes out.
 

Jinxed

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Voice chat technology? In an fps game like hl2 it doesn't need to be integrated at all... You have something like Team Speak for you team deathmatch. While I agree it could be nice if it actually worked in an rpg, nothing is gonna keep people from impersonating different sexes. It's not like the game will come with a voice recongition module. Another thing is making it work like it's supposed to. Let's say I connect to a server... That would probably mean I could disrupt anything that people are trying to do by insulting them in the voice chat. People have been having fun being assholes and typing stupid shit up to piss people off and voice chat would take that to a whole new level. Whoopie fucken do.
 

rasta_kid

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Jul 16, 2004
Messages
62
Exitium said:
Just so you guys know, I don't care for an MP component. It sounded stupid when they originally mentioned it. I don't see the point in anyone wanting to play a half-assed multiplayer Bloodlines with games like CS:S already available.

What the fuck?
 

The Exar

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Exitium said:
Well, I wouldn't be so quick to buy into the belief that the only reason a multiplayer component isn't being developed is to 'focus on the single player campaign'. It's just a clever way of saying that they don't have the talent or ability to design a multiplayer component. When was the last time Troika designed a multiplayer component that worked?
When was the last time RPG with good often played multiplayer had a good "deep" single player?
 

Sol Invictus

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Aside from a lot of shortcomings in the role-playing department, the game is pretty terrific combat and interaction-wise. It's the only game I've played that's offered more playing styles and combat interactivity than anything else I've ever seen. It's like the Sims 2 of RPGs - interactive in almost every way.
 

Whipporowill

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I liked NOX, although it's been what... 8 years since I played it? Wasn't there some free extra map released or something. I remember trying to install it and it didn't work - back in the days when I had to suffer through a 100+ mb download on modem. Crap.

The moody goths are really coming out of the woodworks now. While about almost nobody else cares about mp being lost - certain sites sees an influx of new forum members with some serious angst over the decision, crying foul play and so on. Oh yeah, seriously... "20% less sales", "75% of all buyers were interested due to it's multiplayer".
 

Sol Invictus

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You'd be surprised at how many people just bought Call of Duty for its multiplayer component, even though it isn't anywhere as good as Day of Defeat.
 

Ortchel

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Apr 11, 2004
Messages
830
Quote:
First-person games are my fav because I feel much more immersed in the game world than in a third-person game.


So sayeth those folks who have no imagination.

Well, yes and no. First person will always be immediately more immersive because it's the view from which we live our lives, it's always going to come first. So it's not really fair to say you have no imagination just because you prefer a first person viewpoint.
 

Major_Blackhart

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I just don't get what the big deal is. They never confirmed it, and I don't think it was ever incredibly high on their to do list (from my understanding).
 

Whipporowill

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Anyone feel like proving a point to some stuck-up goths that claim Bloodlines will loose 50% sales due to having it's multiplayer component cut are welcome to register and vote in a forum poll over at this fan site I'm stalking. Those not interested in the game neededn't bother to begin with, of course...

... it's mainly a sp contra mp thing in general though.

http://bloodlines.dilapidation.com
 

Diogo Ribeiro

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Jun 23, 2003
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Something just hit me... wasn't there supposed to be some changes to the rules based on how the multiplayer mode would be made? Something about activating powers, or what their costs was, that had to be changed to make multiplayer more balanced or interesting?

If this is true, then what happens to these rules now that multiplayer is gone?
 

Volourn

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"First person will always be immediately more immersive because it's the view from which we live our lives"

No, and no. You a re wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. In essence, you are a liar, liar, liar, liar.
 

Jinxed

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Role-Player said:
Something just hit me... wasn't there supposed to be some changes to the rules based on how the multiplayer mode would be made? Something about activating powers, or what their costs was, that had to be changed to make multiplayer more balanced or interesting?

If this is true, then what happens to these rules now that multiplayer is gone?

I never heared anything about "changes" just that no free character progression would be present in multi. Only in pre configured schemes laid down prehand. I think everyone here knows how many balance issues have to be dealt with if you allow any sort of openendness in an multiplayer rpg. I think the focus was definetly on single player, with a little mp effort. They probably tried to make the multiplayer *at least* playable without sacrificing anything from the sp mode. Well, they couldn't make it work so they scrapped it altogether. That's the best case scenario though.

"Fuck it, this mp mode has issues and we don't have the time to make it work."
 

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