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[Whipporowill]

Too easy for a vampire (or allies) to pull out? A dagger is meant to go in - and being pulled out, a stake is not.

 

[Azael]

As vampires tend to die when the stake is driven through their heart, I don't see pulling out as a big issue. Besides, the stakes used in most vampire flicks don't look barbed to me. Anyway, I was just curious if anyone had an explanation for the fascination with wooden stakes in vampire mythos.

 

[Whipporowill]

Well, vamps tend to come back to life if the stake is pulled out - That's the point. The only thing that brings 'final death" is beheading and/or burning the body.

 

[Azael]

Still doesn't explain why the stakes are wooden though...

 

[Whipporowill]

Say you want to "cleanse" a vampire lair, where you might come upon an handful of vampires - what do you bring? 10 wooden stakes or 10 metal spikes that are 3 times as heavy? Also, I'd say wooden stakes are a lot easier to get your hands on, or more importantly IMPROVISE. I see the wooden thingie as more of a practical coincedence.

"Got wood?" Errr... :shock:

 

[Jed]

Another thing I never understood about vampire lore, why are wooden stakes the only thing that can kill them (sometimes together with silver and/or holy water)? Can it be any wood, does oak work as well mahogny?

I did a quick web search for vampire lore, and apparently you want either maple, ash, or hawthorn. A dagger will allegedly only work if it is made of silver. Did I ever mention how much I loathe the undead?

 

[Azael]

Say you want to "cleanse" a vampire lair, where you might come upon an handful of vampires - what do you bring? 10 wooden stakes or 10 metal spikes that are 3 times as heavy? Also, I'd say wooden stakes are a lot easier to get your hands on, or more importantly IMPROVISE. I see the wooden thingie as more of a practical coincedence.

"Got wood?" Errr... :shock:

I'd bring a super soaker filled with a solution of holy water and silver nitrate. Oh, and a silver hatchet for the head chopping.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It has to be wood because wood is what crusifixes are made from and are associated with Christ.

 

[Azael]

It has to be wood because wood is what crusifixes are made from and are associated with Christ.

Is that the reason? How is it in the White Wolf setting, vampires scared of crosses and people with faith? I know the religious connection is there with Cain being the progenitor, but does it go beyond that?

 

[Voss]

WW setting makes all this complicated.
Heres somethings:

-Most vampires show up in mirrors (one clan doesn't, but thats one of their quirks)

-Most vampires don't need the soil of the homeland thing (again this does affect one clan)

-Stakes have to be wooden, but don't kill. Puts them in torpor instead (essentially a
coma, theres some other issues with it, like needing blood to rise (and usually not having any if your in a state of torpor in the first place). The wooden stake thing in vampire lore, by the by has little to do with crucifixes. Its more inherent nature of certain types of wood- hawthorn, rowan and ash are traditionally considered inherently resistant/ or efficient in dealing with magic. Over time the stories went from this or that specific wood to just wood. A metal stake is good for stabbing someone, but thats about it.

-Fire can kill, and does aggravated damage (theres also lethal and bashing. Lethals things like guns & swords, bashing more fists. guns, it should be pointed out, do half damage to vampires in this incarnation of the PnP rules. Lack of vital organs helps)
Being around fire forces a check to see if the vamp runs away in terror. (which lead to a lot of jokes early on about WW vampires trying to look cool, lighting a ciggarette and running away in terror from the match.)

- religious icons. It depends. If the user (or site) has True Faith (and this is an attribute, and fairly rare in the World of Darkness- assume most religious institutions make the recent mess up in Boston look minor, at least behind closed doors), religious icons have an effect. No True Faith rating, you can shove said icon up the persons ass without any repercussions (well, for the vampire, anyway). It also isn't a matter of what they believe in, but that they *believe*. Churches with no real belief associated with them are convenient feeding grounds, and safe havens usually (especially in Europe, when there are associated catacombs)

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I just googled for wooden stakes and vampires, and the crusifix thing is what came up. Oddly enough though, a few sites also mentioned specific woods had to be used because those were associated with Christ - ash was one of them. Then again, Jesus was also a carpenter, so you have a whole wood theme there as well.

Does White Wolf mention garlic? :D

 

[Azael]

Thanks for the answers Voss. I'm glad to see that not just any bloke carrying a cross is safe from vampires, it would be strange if an agnostic like me would be protected by carrying a symbol of something I'm noncommital towards.

I pity the vampires that can't stand garlic, they're missing out on some good food.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

(especially in Europe, when there are associated catacombs)

Damn us and our catacombs.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

When I first saw the movie Fright Night, I was impressed with the scene where Peter Vincent is holding the cross up to the vampire who laughs and says "You have to have faith, for that to work on me.... Mr. Vincent!"

It made perfect sense to me. A cross is just another icon without the faith of the wielder to back it up. Another example: all holy water really is, is salt water that has been blessed by a priest. But, you can't simply sprinkle salt water on a vampire and expect it to do anything except maybe piss the fucker off. You have to have it blessed by a priest or it will do no good for you. And even then, you have to have belief in the weapon you are wielding.

As far as garlic goes, that's just something passed down from old farmer superstitions and has not really been used in too many vampire stories as a viable deterent. It didn't work too well in Bram Stokers' Dracula novel and really was only ever used in those cheesy Hammer Film vampire movies from the 60's.

As a side note, according to alot of the old myths, the only way to truly dispatch of a vampire was to put a stake thru it's heart, cut off it's head, stuff a rose in the mouth, and then bury it seperate from the body. This was even mentioned in the original Dracula story.

 

[Voss]

No, garlic doesn't work on WW vampires.

Er. Well, OK, there is an optional system for Flaws that can be used in PnP system. And some of them include traditional weaknesses- most because the vamp in question psychologically convinces itself that they work. But I don't know if Troika is using them, and relatively speaking, they'd be rare. Rare enough that anyone who actually tried it would get their ass handed to them by the first vamp they pissed off.

RP: I was over-generalizing, I know. But I like the catacombs. Churches in the US are largely dull & boring, even the few cathedrals. No corpses interred in the walls and floors, few quirky traditions, no real atmosphere. Its just sad.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

We have a thing for combining drama and death

 

[HanoverF]

In the original "Lore" the stakes were simply to keep the vampire in his coffin while his head could be hacked off to kill him, somehow this evolved to a wooden stake to the heart kills vampires.

 

[Voss]

I'd blame Buffy, but I know that was common even before the scourge that was Whedon. Maybe its D&D's fault?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Another example: all holy water really is, is salt water that has been blessed by a priest. But, you can't simply sprinkle salt water on a vampire and expect it to do anything except maybe piss the fucker off. You have to have it blessed by a priest or it will do no good for you. And even then, you have to have belief in the weapon you are wielding.

Holy Water always works, because it's blessed water. It's basically LIQUID FAITH. You don't have to believe in it because the priest did.

On the subject of Fright Night, though, the cross worked on the new vamps. It's the old vamps, like the dude that bought the house that it required faith for. The cross worked fine on Ed, after all.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hey, does anyone know what would happen if you were a normal human that drank the blood of a vampire?

 

[Voss]

So sorry, but in the World of Darkness, no holy water. Faith is a very personal thing, its not something that can get stored in an object (disclaimer: generally. There are a lot of one offs buried in various books over the years). And a storyteller (the WW version of DM) might allow someone with true faith to use holy water fresh out of the basin as a symbol of their faith, but going by whats in the current book, generally not. Definitely no holy water hand grenades.
Unless of course Troika wants to follow in the footsteps of that other Vampire game.

And given the rarity of True Faith in the WoD, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't in there at all.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

The cross worked fine on Ed, after all.

That was after Peter's encounter on the stairs with papa vamp, so he already knew he had to believe and therefore that's why it worked on Ed the first time. At least that's my theory on it. Who knows what the writers were thinking when they did that.

 

[Whipporowill]

Hey, does anyone know what would happen if you were a normal human that drank the blood of a vampire?

They become ghouls - semi-immortal humans with access to some of the vamps discipline.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Hey, does anyone know what would happen if you were a normal human that drank the blood of a vampire?

They become ghouls - semi-immortal humans with access to some of the vamps discipline.

The downside is, they are bound to the vampire whos blood they drank as well as the fact that they need a continual supply of the blood or they will die.

 

[Whipporowill]

They only need the blood to stay away from their true age - a brand new ghoul that gets one dose will want more, but won't die from withdrawal. Probably a lot like drug addiction...