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Game News Bloom - "Action adventure with a dose of RPG" on Kickstarter

skuphundaku

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
So, the list looks more like right now:

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer KIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- SubBassman [Zoltan Gonda] - Tortured Hearts
- EscapeHatchEntertainment - Starlight Inception
- Anti Danilevski - Divine Space
- Mercenary Games - FleetCOMM
- Studio Fawn - Bloom

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer WIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- Chewbot - Banner Saga
 

The Bishop

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I guess many of developers misunderstand the concept of "having thick skin". Among other things it implies an ability to take harshest criticism without going defensive and sliding into mud throwing contests and "up yours" kind of arguments. Having thick skin means being able to stay calm and reasonable in situation when an average person can't. Going tough guy mode is exactly the opposite of having thick skin.
 

Burning Bridges

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I think it has mostly to do with expectations about who you are. A lot of the guys come to our forums and expect to give speeches from a podium - which may work on moderated forums - but on rpgcodex the crowd boos and occasionaly someone throws an egg. What you have to do is duck or throw back. This is how you quickly earn respect. Otherwise a bit modesty would come handy, especially if your reputation still unproven.

Apart from that I think Studio Fawn and subbassman are ok guys. They only need to give up some of their illusions.

 

skuphundaku

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2 My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I think it has mostly to do with expectations about who you are. A lot of the guys come to our forums and expect to give speeches from a podium - which may work on moderated forums - but on rpgcodex the crowd boos and occasionaly someone throws an egg. What you have to do is duck or throw back. This is how you quickly earn respect. Otherwise a bit modesty would come handy, especially if your reputation still unproven.

Apart from that I think Studio Fawn and subbassman are ok guys. They only need to give up some of their illusions.
Am I the only reading almost exclusively the "assman" part from subbassman?
 

Metro

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This guy is long gone -- you all are just bickering over the corpse. Let it go.
 
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I was considering doing that.
If you look through their threads you get some gems.

Danileski's last post:

About wrong place to come and seek support - you are absolutely right. I came to find like-minded people in RPGcodex, but looks like it was a wrong forum and accidently arrived to PCcodex community. Since I dislike holywars and I don't think that something productive can be born in this sweet nice conversation, I'll move on. Maybe I'll find RPGcodex community somewhere.
kz.gif


I hope you won't ever be tainted with evil iDevices and RPG's that have one of their versions for those foul things.

Good luck, enjoy your stay!
Finally, I'll applaud to you - well done.
appl.gif

He returns a few days later saying they've dropped the IPad support.

Alright, everyone.
A little update. Today, I've initiated a meeting within our company and suggested to drop iPad version first, concentrate on PC only and kill F2P.
It tooke about five hours of discussions, but looks like I'm winning and there is a chance to make it right.

Current campaign will go on (that I couldn't win), but after obvious failure, we probably will relaunch with the right taget platform. If it won't be accepted by co-founders, I'll move forward and DS will be frozen/closed.

Just to let you know, from the beginning I've been against iPad version first, but there are other forces that insisted on it. It doesn't mean I won't defend my baby that I've put so much efforts and energy.

Thanks for reading.

Hahahaha, priceless!
 
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It's just that where was all this criticism then, or even for banner saga. I don't really get it how some of these indie project get sucked up to so much but then another comes and is treated like trash even though it has far more promise. Banner saga got some criticism but not criticized for how much its art looked like something a middle school kid did. And they certainly (undeservedly) got a free ride of living expenses for many years out of it, paid to make the game before it is even really started.

I am a fag to whiteknight some tranny game devs but (logo aside) I like the art pretty well, certainly a lot better than all the other indie stuff I see except for some of oscar's 2D work which I also really like.

Apparently the key to success is to suck up before you start any kickstarter, if you aren't already someone famous.

Developers of Banner Saga were humble from the beginning. They didn't go around delivering socially retarded awkward lines while implying their alleged superiority and authority, or how their art degrees (of THREE YEARS!) mattered or belittled feedback given to them. There is usually something very valuable to take away from even the most vitriolic criticism. If there weren't, it wouldn't exist in the first place. They also successfully pinpointed some of the problems within the industry despite having worked on high profile games in high profile companies, they had basic but solid promises (art style, gameplay style, TB combat) and also footage more or less representative of the quality to expect from the game, demonstrating a mature style done with good direction.

In contrast, these hipster faggots did everything wrong.
 

Moribund

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Developers of Banner Saga were humble from the beginning.
Banner Saga immediately made fun of codex on other sites the second they got any criticism, and refused to come back, and used it as an excuse to ignore REAL criticism.

They didn't go around delivering socially retarded awkward lines while implying their alleged superiority and authority, or how their art degrees (of THREE YEARS!) mattered or belittled feedback given to them.
When you challenge someone's competence and ability to do something, how do you expect them to react?

It's much different to criticize the actual things they show or their plans than to go on your crazy rant about what idiots they are. Logo did look like a ripoff, that's good criticism. Saying they are entitled pussies is another story, and not really warranted for what went on here. And even if it is there's no reason to make it so personal.

I have doubts about some of the KS projects. I don't think the people involved are all worthless crooks, though. Banner Saga is the closest fit to that so far.

There is usually something very valuable to take away from even the most vitriolic criticism. If there weren't, it wouldn't exist in the first place.
But you're not really criticizing what they are showing, you are mostly criticizing them. That's totally different, and unlike in BS saga it is not really deserved. You act in a way that seems dodgy is different from just showing your stuff and having people say you are a worthless idiot.

They also successfully pinpointed some of the problems within the industry despite having worked on high profile games in high profile companies, they had basic but solid promises (art style, gameplay style, TB combat)
No they didn't. Just look at the last update to see what really is coming of this game, worthless. They threw out some buzzwords, waved some hands, and pointedly ignored anyone who tried to get them to commit to any real details, then threw a hissy fit and LEFT FOREVER.

and also footage more or less representative of the quality to expect from the game, demonstrating a mature style done with good direction.
Ha

In contrast, these hipster faggots did everything wrong.

Trying to argue with unreasonable people is the only thing they did wrong. They could have made a stronger pitch but critiquing marketing is not really something that's anyone's business but theirs.[/quote][/quote]
 
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So, the list looks more like right now:

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer KIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- SubBassman [Zoltan Gonda] - Tortured Hearts
- EscapeHatchEntertainment - Starlight Inception
- Anti Danilevski - Divine Space
- Mercenary Games - FleetCOMM
- Studio Fawn - Bloom

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer WIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- Chewbot - Banner Saga

Let's not forget individual developers who used to post here but then said enough is enough. Steve Meister & Pete Hines (Bethesda), David Gaider, some of the old Interplay people and who knows who else.
 

EG

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We definitely plan to do special things for those that back us in these early stages. We really aren't like other companies that intends to take your money and then forget who you are the next day. Those who support us now will never be forgotten or ignored (there is no other company who would make that promise, even those whom the community makes millions... they send you your swag and wash their hands of you). If you are really more concerned over saving 10 dollars than any of that, than what we are offering isn't what you are looking for.

We offer a unique relationship, something that goes beyond a discount on a single early release of a game. If the game works out, and the company survives, you will continue to see lots of special things just for those who were with us at the beginning now (and that is something you will find no other company saying).

o_O

That's great, that you think you're . . . special . . . and that brand loyalty is a novel concept, really.

I just don't think I'm ready for a relationship with someone who projects such warm fuzziness and naivety.
 

Burning Bridges

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Banner Saga immediately made fun of codex on other sites the second they got any criticism, and refused to come back, and used it as an excuse to ignore REAL criticism.

And why shouldn't they. If their game is casual junk and sucks people will eventually laugh about them. If it turns out to be great, in that case I don't mind to admit I was wrong.

When you challenge someone's competence and ability to do something, how do you expect them to react?

LOL. In every professional situation people will challenge your competence and ability - until you prove it. Why do people prepare for job interviews, exams, business meetings or scientific lectures? Why should it be easier when you apply for 200,000$ risk free venture capital?

And you should come off your high horse when you do this. Undergratutes who hold their first presentation can't talk like one of the professors. Well, some will do, but they will be made to regret it soon. To use the analogy, someone who just created a kickstarter profile should not instantly talk like he is the CEO of Google. Not if all he has done is call some friends, made photoshopped imagery and conceived a figure that would greatly please him.

I have doubts about some of the KS projects. I don't think the people involved are all worthless crooks, though. Banner Saga is the closest fit to that so far.

I am not defending Banner Saga but this is ludicrous. There is already a combat demo, which they call "beta". They are definitely not crooks or morons who squander the money. What irks me though is that they got too much money and too easily, I think it could have done with much less when it became clear that Bannu is a casual game.
 

Moribund

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Banner Saga immediately made fun of codex on other sites the second they got any criticism, and refused to come back, and used it as an excuse to ignore REAL criticism.

And why shouldn't they. If their game is casual junk and sucks people will eventually laugh about them. If it turns out to be great, in that case I don't mind to admit I was wrong.
Because it's extremely dishonest to behave the way they did. They sidestepped all the criticism and pretended that they got the treatment that these guys have gotten to an extent, name calling and mindless trolling. So what do you call someone who does that?

Ignoring all the valid criticisms then finding an excuse to ding dong bannu hey it's just like bioware PR.

When you challenge someone's competence and ability to do something, how do you expect them to react?

LOL. In every professional situation people will challenge your competence and ability - until you prove it. Why do people prepare for job interviews, exams, business meetings or scientific lectures? Why should it be easier when you apply for 200,000$ risk free venture capital?

And you should come off your high horse when you do this. Undergratutes who hold their first presentation can't talk like one of the professors. Well, some will do, but they will be made to regret it soon. To use the analogy, someone who just created a kickstarter profile should not instantly talk like he is the CEO of Google. Not if all he has done is call some friends, made photoshopped imagery and conceived a figure that would greatly please him.
If someone pulls a power trip in an interview and becomes that confrontational it's a crap place to work and I'd walk out (and have).

I guess I'm the only one to walk out of an interview, but 99% of the time I find interviews pleasant and pleasurable. I don't mind getting questions about my knowledge because I know what I'm doing and enjoy talking about my work.

Who does? But you provide whatever you can even for areas you are weak on. So you can't provide a functional game, fine. You bring up your education and show some of your work. Which is exactly what studio fawn did, but no for them it's shit.

What are they supposed to say when someone asks "why should you get a free ride?". Then you say "Well, I went to school 3 years and have been working really hard to perfect my art since then. Here's some samples. I'm really excited about this opportunity and have been planning this out for 2 years now, just look at my art. Heck you can even look up my graphical novel, which is related to the game!"

"3 years?! You can learn art in 2 months! You can learn programming in 2 months! Here's 50 examples of self taught art with NO TRAINING AT ALL!!! What kind of entitled bitch are you?"

"Well look guy I think my art is pretty good and I worked hard on it. Also I plan to give every single person who supports us now a special relationship and insider knowledge of everything we do. We will really take care of our customers out of gratitude."

A couple posts above mine someone even complains about this nice post. Sounds sincere and pretty nice to me. Not the kind of song and dance from the ipad guy or from BS, which both seem to be more than a bit dodgy/full of it.

Part of a KS is to see if it's worth spending time in this direction. Maybe you won't get the KS done but if you get some good feedback and not "eat it, pussy loser, ball-less faggot" maybe you will make a better one later but now I doubt they'll try again.

And it's not in the category of "make me a game" like some people, there is work done. It's not bad at all, certainly better than anything not made by a big studio in a KS the codex has covered so far.

All these guys that made these classic games had as little or less to show when they got their first gaming jobs. Many of them much less. So again is this a sequel enabler or a kickstarter? It seems to be the case we'll get nothing out of this but nostalgic rehashes, cash grabs and games that never materialize.



I have doubts about some of the KS projects. I don't think the people involved are all worthless crooks, though. Banner Saga is the closest fit to that so far.

I am not defending Banner Saga but this is ludicrous. There is already a combat demo, which they call "beta". They are definitely not crooks or morons who squander the money. What irks me though is that they got too much money and too easily, I think it could have done with much less when it became clear that Bannu is a casual game.

The issue is they came along saying hey guys we have turn based combat, we believe in old school RPGs and strategy games, and here's a ridiculously big list of awesome games we are inspired by. Now here you go, here's uh, some kind of game. Well, there will be romances. And an orchestra. Yeah it's nothing like any of those games we mentioned and it is mediocre even for a f2p browser game, and nothing old school turn based RPG fans would be interested in, but hey we have your money now suckers so tough luck.

How is that not sleazy?
 

commie

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
So, the list looks more like right now:

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer KIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- SubBassman [Zoltan Gonda] - Tortured Hearts
- EscapeHatchEntertainment - Starlight Inception
- Anti Danilevski - Divine Space
- Mercenary Games - FleetCOMM
- Studio Fawn - Bloom

The RPG Codex kickstarter developer WIA:
------------------------------------------------------
- Chewbot - Banner Saga

Fuck those losers...
 

Burning Bridges

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Because it's extremely dishonest to behave the way they did. They sidestepped all the criticism and pretended that they got the treatment that these guys have gotten to an extent, name calling and mindless trolling. So what do you call someone who does that?

Ignoring all the valid criticisms then finding an excuse to ding dong bannu hey it's just like bioware PR.

Yep. And you already know that these guys worked at Bioware, and most importantly, they did not just serve coffee.

Mind that I made it explicitly clear in one of the Banner Sagu threads that the Stoic guys have gotten way over their head in their own way. But on the other hand, if you come off a 150k contract in the industry it's legitimate to just pull out like chewbot did. Because lets be frank, for someone working in a professional environment the discussion was getting below his level, thanks to some people who are not willing not pull themselves together.

Of course I'd have grown much more respect for him if he had just persevered and meted out with a dose of self-mockery like e.g. Annie Mitsoda does. But at least I can understand what he did.

The truth will be known when the game is released, and I still have the same doubts about it. But Moribund, are you aware that what you're saying amounts to: we must overlook serious flaws and doubts because Banner Saga already got through with it?

If someone pulls a power trip in an interview and becomes that confrontational it's a crap place to work and I'd walk out (and have).

I guess I'm the only one to walk out of an interview, but 99% of the time I find interviews pleasant and pleasurable. I don't mind getting questions about my knowledge because I know what I'm doing and enjoy talking about my work.

Who does? But you provide whatever you can even for areas you are weak on. So you can't provide a functional game, fine. You bring up your education and show some of your work. Which is exactly what studio fawn did, but no for them it's shit.

What are they supposed to say when someone asks "why should you get a free ride?". Then you say "Well, I went to school 3 years and have been working really hard to perfect my art since then. Here's some samples. I'm really excited about this opportunity and have been planning this out for 2 years now, just look at my art. Heck you can even look up my graphical novel, which is related to the game!"

"3 years?! You can learn art in 2 months! You can learn programming in 2 months! Here's 50 examples of self taught art with NO TRAINING AT ALL!!! What kind of entitled bitch are you?"

The problems is that these kind of comment were just kind of background noise you get in every 'dex thread. And people told him about it beforehand, so he would not get detracted by it.

The majority of people were not telling him to stop what he is doing but basically just pointing out some serious flaws in his campaign.

The discussion then turned south because he decided to play the prima donna. That was his mistake and at this point it was legitimate to demonstrate him that he is too inexperienced and should get the fuck out until he learns a thing or two. Me and several posters on several occasions expressed that his art was looking outstanding, and he should get on with it, but with a more self-critical attitude. The kickstarter was already dead in the water, so it was sound advice how he could prepare a better one.

I also wrote that he should simply man up and come back - he has the talent - but should work on a mode how he can run the thing without turning people against it.

All these guys that made these classic games had as little or less to show when they got their first gaming jobs. Many of them much less. So again is this a sequel enabler or a kickstarter? It seems to be the case we'll get nothing out of this but nostalgic rehashes, cash grabs and games that never materialize.

I say again -hopefully for the last time- that kickstarters are no cash machines for people with university degrees, but real applications for venture capital. There were certainly thousands of guys in the classic times too, who did not get through with their ideas because they were flawed in some way or another.

The issue is they came along saying hey guys we have turn based combat, we believe in old school RPGs and strategy games, and here's a ridiculously big list of awesome games we are inspired by.

That's only words, and actions speak louder than words. With actions I mean of course what I said before, show that you already made a real commitment, not just "trying" a little kickstarter because it's so damn convenient. Don't belittle the people who you ask for funds, that's a lesson every kickstarter dev needs to remember.
 

Moribund

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What, do you really think that making concept sketches takes five minutes? This is some crazy delusional nonsense vots came up with. It's very time consuming to do any art of any kind, and it takes a lot of practice for it to be anything but crap. Usually it means you throw away 99 versions and keep one. Of course if you are really accusing it all of being ripped photos like someone here suggested then that's another thing, but usually that gets caught out pretty quickly due to google image search. I doubt that is the case, but I have not looked really closely.

And mentioning vots again, well this is kind of futile. You have him on ignore. Well guess what he's been particularly crazy and delusional in this thread. He also now has ME on ignore. So really this is a pretty pointless conversation where the guy I am complaining about the most has me on ignore and you have him on ignore so of course you are baffled too.

But I don't think it's typical background noise. Some people worry about nice or not nice when we should worry about whether the response people get is deserved. For BS and many others the deserved response was what they got or else way short of what they really deserved. If we wanted a bunch of lies followed by a game nothing like what was promised we can play dragon age or any other EA game. Here everyone is piling on to bitch about a tranny for what, exactly?

You should ask for qualifications in an interview but I never had a place demand "why do you think you have a right to even apply here?! I could get a homeless person to do a better job!". What kind of nonsense is that, and what kind of reaction do you expect for that.

Anyway, whatever. Like someone said they are not coming back but while I don't think it's the most likely project to actually succeed if it got the money, it's still much more legitimate than most the crap that comes along, most of which gets fapped to by half the codex for no sane reason I can see.
 

Burning Bridges

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You should ask for qualifications in an interview but I never had a place demand "why do you think you have a right to even apply here?! I could get a homeless person to do a better job!". What kind of nonsense is that, and what kind of reaction do you expect for that.

A fair point.
 

J1M

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How did I miss this thread last week? A shame, I could have posted about how I have a demo app that demonstrates the rendering technique they were planning to use. The reason I built said demo app was to prototype it for my own project.

Now my game is tainted with their failure. :(
 

felipepepe

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Humm, missed this one too... another "I worked hard on this, I deserve it" person; I blame society for selling the illusion that trying hard is enough to succeed. Making 100 beatifull concept arts is great, but just what that means if it's all you got to show for a game?

Besides, I see the blindfold of overspecialization, she is focusing only on her work (after all she had 3 years of College) and underestimating everyone's else job as just complimentary stuff to her magnum opus... I've seen this many times on shitty freelance jobs I took; "we spent 3 weeks making the scritp for this video, now you and the art guy need only to make the rest of the video in two days". And guess what, on most cases even the fucking script they spent 3 weeks working will face heavy changes due retarded ideias that are unpratical to implement, since they never had the know-how to judge that.
 

Burning Bridges

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Also, no updates on the kickstarter page since Nov. 12

Can it really be that this thread has put Studio Fawn in a deep depression?

rpgcodex killed! my inner child
 

Minttunator

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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Wrath
Could be this thread, or it could be the fact that the Kickstarter is currently sitting at only $4,625 - hell, even the Grimoire Indiegogo project is doing better! :troll:
 
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What, do you really think that making concept sketches takes five minutes? This is some crazy delusional nonsense vots came up with.

Bullshit. A sketch that takes more than five minutes...

:hmmm:

I think you are confused about what a "sketch" means, much less a "concept sketch". The entire reason for the concept of "sketch" itself is time and speed, that a "sketch" is something you do as quickly as possible. You want to paint a non-fictional urban scenery? You go to places and make sketches. Then you build on those sketches the actual artwork.

It's very time consuming to do any art of any kind

Not really. Youtube "speed painting". It is, however, very time consuming to do some kinds of art.

and it takes a lot of practice for it to be anything but crap.

A very romanticised outlook. *Literally* anyone can create something that is mediocre to good with a little bit of practice and persistence. The catch simply is that most people are willing to invest neither the time or the effort into it so obviously nothing can happen if you aren't willing in the first place.

Usually it means you throw away 99 versions and keep one.

Again, that's a very romanticised and misinformed perspective. And particularly wrong regarding concept artwork. Concept artists aren't usually given that kind of time. They are expected to produce "concepts" that communicate ideas and create inspiration, not finished masterworks, at very short notice. Ever peeked through "concept art" books? They are usually full of very sharply defined but otherwise very plain and simplistic art or elaborate but rather rough finished works, with brush marks all over the place and a few "feature works" for some of the concepts that were found to be particularly good and were asked to be fleshed out. That's because they simply don't get the time to make 100 versions of everything and even if they did, they still wouldn't throw away the other 99 versions. Concept artists aren't hired from among hobbyists or up-and-coming students who have just picked up the trade and that's why they wouldn't need to produce 100 versions to throw 99 of them in the first place. And nobody is going to wait for an entitled piece of shit to create an "artwork" for a week just so that they can visualise certain aspects of their vision. It quite simply doesn't work like that.

And mentioning vots again, well this is kind of futile. You have him on ignore. Well guess what he's been particularly crazy and delusional in this thread.He also now has ME on ignore.

Well that's because you are crazy and delusional ZOMG! See how easy it is to avoid actual arguments.

So really this is a pretty pointless conversation where the guy I am complaining about the most has me on ignore and you have him on ignore so of course you are baffled too.

I provide arguments. When they are met with "OLOLOL YOUR WRONG OLOLOL" kind of crap, I put that person on ignore. Or when someone twists my expressions into things I haven't said, I put that person on ignore. End of the discussion. For my own time and sanity, really.

Regardless, sketch or concept art or not, an experienced programmer can put together a working game prototype in significantly less time than an artist with no or little programming experience can. Reasons are simple: art can be found for free, can be generated or bought and there is literally very few other kinds of people than the countless hordes of people practicing some type of art with a sense of over-entitlement. You can't find a good programmer so easily, which is chief reason why 99 out of 100 game projects out there, original titles or mods, fail: because they were started by over-entitled morons who think art makes game and through creating art, they were actually day-dreaming about making games. These are quite simply facts, you can't even argue them unless you are complete utter moron out of touch with the world.

And some people with the talent and experience will do all of it themselves. No need to get butthurt about this as there are several examples of that. If you have to be butthurt about something, be butthurt about those crazily talented people who does several things brilliantly in the time it would take you to become average at doing a single one of them. And there is nothing fair or unfair about it. You just have to take it like a man and accept that some are simply more gifted than others.
 

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