Can a game be an rpg if it doesnt have choice and consequence ?

[KeighnMcDeath]

Holo deck suite to fuck that hardlight ai eh? "

Oh baby... you're 'light' on your feet."

"Bidi booddi biddi 1 2 3 4 F U K M E M O R bidi boodie biddi."

Ba da boom tsh

 

[deama]

At some point you could probably make a psuedo DM with chatGPT, probably 5-10 years away though, nevermind trying to stick that into a game.

Probably closer. If I were WoTC, I'd invest now (yesterday) in a chatbot that specializes as a DM (or even as stand in players).
It would give people a reason to use their Beyond service.

Yeah, that stuff is pretty close, but I was moreso on about actual games, like the chatGPT DM being able to manipulate objects in the game world as well to create random generated content and more in those lines. E.g. imagine DnD online and the DM dynamically changes the world as new scenarios unfold or you figure out solutions to things that weren't part of the normal story etc...

 

[PapaPetro]

At some point you could probably make a psuedo DM with chatGPT, probably 5-10 years away though, nevermind trying to stick that into a game.

Probably closer. If I were WoTC, I'd invest now (yesterday) in a chatbot that specializes as a DM (or even as stand in players).
It would give people a reason to use their Beyond service.

Yeah, that stuff is pretty close, but I was moreso on about actual games, like the chatGPT DM being able to manipulate objects in the game world as well to create random generated content and more in those lines. E.g. imagine DnD online and the DM dynamically changes the world as new scenarios unfold or you figure out solutions to things that weren't part of the normal story etc...

There's a plethora of adventure modules for a Transformer AI to train off of (what ChatGPT does but wider); where it has way more than enough material to synthesize new coherent & consistent content.
You could probably just ask it to make a new dungeon crawl adventure in the style of Gary Gygax and it will be closer to authentic than not.
Eventually even print out maps and stay faithful to it in-game. That's the next step is making APIs to link up these AI systems (chat, image generator, sound/voice gen, table top, etc.).

 

[PapaPetro]

Holo deck suite to fuck that hardlight ai eh? "

Oh baby... you're 'light' on your feet."

"Bidi booddi biddi 1 2 3 4 F U K M E M O R bidi boodie biddi."

Ba da boom tsh

For you

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

RPGs: the way you've built your party and your actions determine whether you get to reach Werdna alive and survive the battle with him. The lack of friendly NPCs means you're isolated and the consequence of dumb choices is certain death.

Visual Novel Scheisse that most people mistake for RPGs: you zoom through the dungeon, fuck every NPC along the way while they're pointing you towards the next stop, and then decide whether to romance Werdna or not, how you're going to romance him, and whether your romance will include dildos and lingerie.

 

[gaussgunner]

Many people these days say that even if there are no choice and consequence as long as you can create your character , you dont have to follow a linear path in doing the story ( like in skyrim , you can do the main story when you want ) , you can upgrade the skills that you have then that game is an rpg , it doesnt matter if you have no say in the events happening in the story

None of those are sufficient. If your actions in the game don't affect events in the story, it's not an RPG. If it doesn't have a story it's just a game, but if it has too much story/cutscenes you can't affect events so it's not an RPG, and if it's all story it's not a game. CYOAs aren't games.

Visual Novel Scheisse that most people mistake for RPGs: you zoom through the dungeon, fuck every NPC along the way while they're pointing you towards the next stop, and then decide whether to romance Werdna or not, how you're going to romance him, and whether your romance will include dildos and lingerie.

I know what you mean. https://itch.io/games/genre-rpg

Steam is better though.

 

[vota DC]

It depends if in the real world counterpart there are C&C. For example President RPG, low physical skills and crash with bike or fail climbing the stairs but zero consequences. Low charisma and call black people "roaches" but nobody gets angry. Low intelligence and special dialogues but everyone will react as you said something smart.

 

[Smerlus]

Video game RPGs should try their hardest to emulate the good things about PnP RPGs with the benefit and limitations of technology taken into account.



So C&C is definitely important but i think player freedom is also. Vast improvements to AI would also do wonders (game reactivity to decisions, NPC/creature AI also.)



Ive noticed developers dont seem to try to push C&C and freedom at the same time and AI is almost totally ignored. However, games like New Vegas strike a decent balance.

 

[bandersnatch]

All RPGs start with a choice and consequence. You have a choice to buy them!

The consequence comes into play if you have good taste or not. Good taste in RPGs, and you will have fun and enjoy the game and want more. Bad taste and you are in for a lifetime of disappointment, denial, and wasting your money on things that don't make you happy.
I have exquisite taste in RPGs. That's why I'm so happy all the time. That's not Prozac buddy, it's golden era satisfaction with lots of happy (RPG) endings.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

If I press "Start Game", I make a choice and as a consequence the game starts.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

If I press "Start Game", I make a choice and as a consequence the game starts.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[PapaPetro]

Is this correct?
The the RPG vs Immersive Sim thing

 

[Harthwain]

Is this correct?
The the RPG vs Immersive Sim thing

Deus Ex (2000) had character creation.

 

[NecroLord]

Does it allow me to be an evil piece of shit or the very pinnacle of virtue?
Does it allow me to solve quests in a number of different ways, either with diplomacy or steel and fire?
Does it allow me to choose an adventuring group based on their competence and what I think is best suited for the task of completing quests?
Does it allow me to create a character and choose its vital statistics and other things such as traits and backgrounds?

If all of the above questions are answered with Yes, then it's an RPG, full stop.
Any less than three and it's not.

 

[NecroLord]

Does it allow me to be an evil piece of shit or the very pinnacle of virtue?
Does it allow me to solve quests in a number of different ways, either with diplomacy or steel and fire?
Does it allow me to choose an adventuring group based on their competence and what I think is best suited for the task of completing quests?
Does it allow me to create a character and choose its vital statistics and other things such as traits and backgrounds?
Does a character advance in level and skill by acquiring more experience either by killing shit or completing quests or both?

If all of the above questions are answered with Yes, then it's an RPG, full stop.
Any less than three and it's not.

 

[Kruyurk]

The question can only be answered once you completed a game multiple times; I would say a minimum of three times. If each playthrough you can be someone different, then maybe there were some choices and consequences along the way. And if that is the case, you can start to think that what you experienced for dozen if not hundreds of hours at that point is an actual RPG. Then you must ask on the Codex for confirmation, but the real problem starts here as you cannot trust that anyone talking about alleged RPGs here went trough the same process of completing each game multiple times to know for sure. So it's best to not think about RPGs in my opinion.

 

[KateMicucci]

Is this correct?
The the RPG vs Immersive Sim thing

cut your fingernails

 

[PapaPetro]

Is this correct?
The the RPG vs Immersive Sim thing

cut your fingernails

You're not the boss of me, kiss my black ass

 

[Dave the Druid]

Is this correct?
The the RPG vs Immersive Sim thing

Nah. I've posted this elsewhere before but here's Tim Stellmach and MAHK LeBlanc explaining what the fuck the difference is between a CRPG and an immersive sim (although they're calling it 'immersive reality' here rather than Sim because this was written in 1997 when they were making Thief: The Dark Project and the term 'immersive sim' literallly didn't exist yet):

TL;DR: Systems-driven emergent gameplay allowing for player agency

Also no. That list's garbage. Ultima Underworld had dice rolls, even Deus Ex had some slight RNG when it came to its aiming mechanics. Both games also had character creation. Thief didn't have skills or stat upgrades. And Ultima Underworld, Ultima Underworld II, Terra Nova, Thief: The Dark Project, Thief II and Deadly Shadows don't have the code '0451' in it. In fact, technically System Shock doesn't even have it, it's first code is '451,' ditto System Shock 2, first code there is '45100.'

It's almost like great games don't happen by shoe-horning your design into a rigid category made up by some magazine.

 

[Norfleet]

If a nigger robs a shop but there's no police around to arrest him, is it a crime?

Depends. Is it in Commiefornia? If so, then no, it isn't.

 

[NecroLord]

If a nigger robs a shop but there's no police around to arrest him, is it a crime?

Depends. Is it in Commiefornia? If so, then no, it isn't.

He was a gud boi. He dindu nuffin.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

We need to stop treating the term RPG as it's a badge of Honor, having stats in your game aren't going to make the game good. In fact most RPGs suck, there's always too much dialogue, which makes a sore to replay it in a supposed replayable genre, and the world is surprisingly static and linear, which is in contradction with role playing. Choice and consequence in RPGs usually is between choice A and B (sometimes there's a C or even a D) in scripted story sequences that the developers made, feels like those DVD games:


So much Choice and Consequence here.

That's why i think games with simulated worlds like Mount and Blade, Kenshi, Space Rangers, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Cataclysm Dark days Ahead, Crusaders kings, Master of Magic, X-Com, strategy games in general, Football Manager, The Sims... are better at giving you the freedom to play the way you want and to see the consequences of your choices on the world.

 

[Norfleet]

If it doesn't have any choice and consequence, is it even a GAME, or are you just watching an interactive cutscene? Do I need to play this, or can I just let some Youtube dork do it for me?

 

[Conan]

Are we intentionally conflating the meaning of the term C&C for good boy points?

Because that is fooken tarded.

C&C corresponds to a specific situation in games, where a *story* choice leads to a change in the story experience from that point on or in the future. Is C&C necessary for a game to be RPG? Of course not. RPGs are about the actions and their efficacy determined by stats that the player can select and improve.

C&C can easily exist in all other types of computer games and yes, even in FPSs.

 

[gaussgunner]

C&C corresponds to a specific situation in games, where a *story* choice leads to a change in the story experience from that point on or in the future.

But if the choices can only be made in dialogue, is it really an RPG?