Game News CD Projekt RED News: Cyberpunk 2077 Announced, The Witcher 2 Going Mac, REDkit Intro Video

[Major_Blackhart]

This could be a possibly good game.

 

[Dexter]

Btw. this was their presentation with some more Info:

 

[Phineas]

I honestly don't know what to think of Cyberpunk 2077, but I'm hoping that it won't be another twitch game.

Popamole confirmed.

 

[sea]

Those mod tools look fun to use, and real-time in-game previewing will save a lot of time. I wonder how powerful the flow chart stuff will be, or to what degree scripting will allow modification of specific parts of the game (i.e. custom abilities, spells, effects, animations, monsters, interactions).

Indulge me. Why is TW more sandboxy than Bloodlines?

Probably larger environments and generally less linear gameplay (at least in terms of side quests). The Witcher also has systems like crafting that you can indulge in at your own pace, more exploration and secrets to find, etc. It's hardly "sandboxy" though.

 

[villain of the story]

Indulge me. Why is TW more sandboxy than Bloodlines?

Probably larger environments and generally less linear gameplay (at least in terms of side quests). The Witcher also has systems like crafting that you can indulge in at your own pace, more exploration and secrets to find, etc. It's hardly "sandboxy" though.

What is sandbox, how do you define it?

The two game are very similar. Both progress in acts with satellite side-quests but TW maintains a better illusion of freedom with more options in resolving quests plus the independent game systems. It's relatively more sandboxy in comparison.

 

[sea]

What is sandbox, how do you define it?

The two game are very similar. Both progress in acts with satellite side-quests but TW maintains a better illusion of freedom with more options in resolving quests plus the independent game systems. It's relatively more sandboxy in comparison.

The illusion of freedom is what I was referring to. Bloodlines feels much more quest -> quest -> quest whereas The Witcher, due to larger environments, feels like you are stumbling upon and finding things yourself more often. As I said though, The Witcher is not a sandbox game at all, it's just closer in spirit to one than Bloodlines.

For the record, I define sandbox games as those where gameplay is primarily the result of the interactions of different gameplay systems in order to create some degree of emergent, free-form play. Morrowind is a sandbox game not because it is huge, but because of the universal rules governing its game world and the way they are open to manipulation... Skyrim, less so, because of how those rules have been simplified and compromised.

 

[villain of the story]

What is sandbox, how do you define it?

The two game are very similar. Both progress in acts with satellite side-quests but TW maintains a better illusion of freedom with more options in resolving quests plus the independent game systems. It's relatively more sandboxy in comparison.

The illusion of freedom is what I was referring to. Bloodlines feels much more quest -> quest -> quest whereas The Witcher, due to larger environments, feels like you are stumbling upon and finding things yourself more often.

You are stumbling upon and finding things yourself more often.

As I said though, The Witcher is not a sandbox game at all, it's just closer in spirit to one than Bloodlines.

And that's why I said "sandboxy".

For the record, I define sandbox games as those where gameplay is primarily the result of the interactions of different gameplay systems in order to create some degree of emergent, free-form play. Morrowind is a sandbox game not because it is huge, but because of the universal rules governing its game world and the way they are open to manipulation... Skyrim, less so, because of how those rules have been simplified and compromised.

WUT

Skyrim is a far more and better sandbox than MW in my opinion. I don't see how you claim the opposite. Morrowind is terminally static to begin with. There are more open systems in Skyrim to manipulate.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

We're really talking about the merits of Bethesda games now?
Really?

 

[Gerrard]

Skyrim is a far more and better sandbox than MW in my opinion. I don't see how you claim the opposite. Morrowind is terminally static to begin with. There are more open systems in Skyrim to manipulate.

Updated my vots.txt.

 

[OSK]

We're really talking about the merits of Bethesda games now?
Really?

This is a CD Projekt topic. It's fair.

 

[villain of the story]

Skyrim is a far more and better sandbox than MW in my opinion. I don't see how you claim the opposite. Morrowind is terminally static to begin with. There are more open systems in Skyrim to manipulate.

Updated my vots.txt.

We're really talking about the merits of Bethesda games now?
Really?

Only if you equate "sandbox qualities" to "merits". I don't. Morrowind is a much better game but Skyrim is a much better sandbox.

 

[markec]

Only if you equate "sandbox qualities" to "merits". I don't. Morrowind is a much better game but Skyrim is a much better sandbox.

I disagree, what makes Morrowind a far better sandbox game is the fact that there is no level scaling in MW which means you can find the best equipment and most dangerous enemies as level 1. Also all dungeons in Skyrim are, conceptually, pretty much the same, the whole point of them is to find loot and all of them have pretty much same design with several levels and last one culminating with a "boss" and a big treasure chest/dragon shout. In Morrowind there are many dungeons that have no enemies at all but have pieces of lore, Bethesda said the story of the world with the world itself. The point is that Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

 

[villain of the story]

I disagree, what makes Morrowind a far better sandbox game is the fact that there is no level scaling in MW

Nigga please... Don't say this bullshit around MW modders or you will be excommunicated. And not only that but there is only a very weak connection between sandbox qualities and level scaling.

By the way, does level scaling do anything in outdoors in Skyrim at all, other than the dragons and bandits? I remember reaching level 40 something and not seeing anything new or wildly different the entire game when I was outside.

which means you can find the best equipment and most dangerous enemies as level 1.

You are on a roll. Next time you play MW, try levelling up several levels in one place before going out into the wilds again. You will see that half the wildlife population has changed and so has half the loot.

Also all dungeons in Skyrim are, conceptually, pretty much the same, the whole point of them is to find loot and all of them have pretty much same design with several levels and last one culminating with a "boss" and a big treasure chest/dragon shout.

That means absolutely nothing with regard to sandbox.

In Morrowind there are many dungeons that have no enemies at all but have pieces of lore, Bethesda said the story of the world with the world itself.

Neither does this.

The point is that Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

I think you are very very confused about what sandbox means.

 

[markec]

There is only a very weak connection between sandbox qualities and level scaling.

Well maybe for you, but for me in games like Gothic or Morrowind one of the best thing was not knowing what you will encounter in a cave you just come by. Maybe it will be a goblin and maybe Ogre who will one hit kill you, to me sandbox mean not only nice vistas but also unpredictability of the world. If you know whats behind the corner whats the joy of exploring it?

By the way, does level scaling do anything in outdoors in Skyrim at all, other than the dragons and bandits? I remember reaching level 40 something and not seeing anything new or wildly different the entire game when I was outside.

You will meet several variation of bandits and dragons, while level scaling is not as bad as in Oblivion I find it still pretty intrusing.

You are on a roll. Next time you play MW, try levelling up several levels in one place before going out into the wilds again. You will see that half the wildlife population has changed and so has half the loot.

Well true there is a bit of level scaling in Morrowind, especially in the expansions, but in original game it was not as nearly painful as it was in the next two games. As I said you could still encounter Daedras as level one and find the best artifacts.

Also all dungeons in Skyrim are, conceptually, pretty much the same, the whole point of them is to find loot and all of them have pretty much same design with several levels and last one culminating with a "boss" and a big treasure chest/dragon shout.

That means absolutely nothing with regard to sandbox.

It does when we talk about quality of the world design. The point of the game is to go in dungeons and explore them, if all of them are the same where is the fun of exploring them?

In Morrowind there are many dungeons that have no enemies at all but have pieces of lore, Bethesda said the story of the world with the world itself.

Neither does this.

Again, having multiple types of dungeons adds to the sense of exploration, and building the lore of the world makes the player appreciate the world more.

The point is that Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

I think you are very very confused about what sandbox means.

I am talking about what makes a GOOD sandbox world.

Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

But once you know where everything is in Morrowind you cannot help to powergame your way to the glassa rmors in ghostgate, and break the game.
To me Skyrim is thte ultimate sandbox since that lack of static items and gamebreaking items (at least till you have a high enough level) help make the game fresh and challenging every time; even if you know all quests and whatever the mere fact that some of the most rewarding are level restricted makes the game new every time.
If you use a mod like Morrowloot, which fixes the autoeveling ites to a more balanced and challenging gameplay, you are set

I think its just a matter of preference.

 

[villain of the story]

et tu skuphundaku , brofisting a half-enlightened and ill-informed post?

There is only a very weak connection between sandbox qualities and level scaling.

Well maybe for you, but for me in games like Gothic or Morrowind one of the best thing was not knowing what you will encounter in a cave you just come by. Maybe it will be a goblin and maybe Ogre who will one hit kill you, to me sandbox mean not only nice vistas but also unpredictability of the world. If you know whats behind the corner whats the joy of exploring it?

Cool and I agree but that has got nothing to do with sandbox. Terminology doesn't change based on what they mean to you. That's why terminology exists. And this is not about sandbox.

You are on a roll. Next time you play MW, try levelling up several levels in one place before going out into the wilds again. You will see that half the wildlife population has changed and so has half the loot.

Well true there is a bit of level scaling in Morrowind, especially in the expansions, but in original game it was not as nearly painful as it was in the next two games. As I said you could still encounter Daedras as level one and find the best artifacts.

My first ever playthrough of Morrowind: Arrived at Balmore at level 2. Trained up to level 8 and went out. I take a few steps outside Balmora and it's Golden Shower Saints and shit everywhere, like I was playing a completely different game.

Oh yeah, yeah, it was pretty fucking painful.

Also all dungeons in Skyrim are, conceptually, pretty much the same, the whole point of them is to find loot and all of them have pretty much same design with several levels and last one culminating with a "boss" and a big treasure chest/dragon shout.

That means absolutely nothing with regard to sandbox.

It does when we talk about quality of the world design. The point of the game is to go in dungeons and explore them, if all of them are the same where is the fun of exploring them?

You are talking about some subjective quality of the world design which I agree is well designed but likely for different reasons. Anyway, still not about sandbox, though.

In Morrowind there are many dungeons that have no enemies at all but have pieces of lore, Bethesda said the story of the world with the world itself.

Neither does this.

Again, having multiple types of dungeons adds to the sense of exploration, and building the lore of the world makes the player appreciate the world more.

"Sense of exploration" is "sense of exploration" and an aspect of world design / narrative. Nope, nothing to do with sandbox.

The point is that Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

I think you are very very confused about what sandbox means.

I am talking about what makes a GOOD sandbox world.

You are talking about what makes a good GAME. Not sandbox.

Anyway, I'm done with this ill-informed discussion. Back to Cyberpunk: on the video, the jumpy white guy doing most of the talking said this:

"We decided to go for sandbox environment so that's something very new for us we haven't seen it in our games before". An upfront admission so that we can say it won't be like TW series. But they also said that the entire game will take place in one city, implying it will be very open-ended and do what you want when you want. I'm thinking of an Assassin's Creed RPG taking place in one city. I hope they pull it.

Also, the game will probably have stunning visuals and be very hardware friendly because the entire game will take place in night which means baked (static) world lighting.

 

[toro]

The perfect shitstorm. The idea was that neither Bloodlines or The Witcher are sandbox games.
Hint: You don't have access to the entire game world from the start and you have to follow the story in a linear way. There are sidequests and shit, but both of them suffer from a tunnel syndrome: you can never go outside of the tunnel designed for you.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Don't say Arcanum.

 

[markec]

snip

Please enlighten me what sandbox means and what does in your opinion makes Skyrim a better sandbox world.

 

[markec]

Sure thing bro
Sandbox RPGs
Sandbox RPGs allow the player a huge amount of freedom and usually contain a somewhat realistic free-roaming (meaning the player is not confined to a single path restricted by rocks or fences etc.) world. Sandbox RPGs are almost always western rather than Japanese and contain similarities to other sandbox games such as the Grand Theft Auto series with a large number of interactable NPCs, large amount of content and typically some of the largest worlds to explore and longest playtimes of all RPGs due to an impressive amount of secondary content not critical to the game's main storyline. Sandbox RPGs often attempt to emulate an entire region of their setting. Good examples of this small subgenre are Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 by Bethesda and the Gothic series by Piranha Bytes.

Thank you for the response, but I wanted to know what does sandbox mean to VOTS and how is Skyrim a better then Morrowind in that regard.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Oooh, cyberpunk would be sweet, indeed!

 

[Metro]

Sorry but the on-rails approach of TW kills any illusion of 'sandbox' to me. And really, comparing it to Bloodlines doesn't make much sense. The reason Bloodlines is praised here is because of its multiple character development/playthrough styles and C&C (two things the Witcher lacks in any meaningful quantity). Everyone recognizes Bloodlines has pretty terrible combat and mediocre level design.

 

[sea]

I disagree, what makes Morrowind a far better sandbox game is the fact that there is no level scaling in MW which means you can find the best equipment and most dangerous enemies as level 1. Also all dungeons in Skyrim are, conceptually, pretty much the same, the whole point of them is to find loot and all of them have pretty much same design with several levels and last one culminating with a "boss" and a big treasure chest/dragon shout. In Morrowind there are many dungeons that have no enemies at all but have pieces of lore, Bethesda said the story of the world with the world itself. The point is that Morrowind is totally unpredictable place and thats the reason why its far better sandbox world and a game.

This, plus let's not forget the fact that you have to figure out where to go and what to do for quests on your own (lol can't find caius cosades), as well as the reputation system which is a global mechanic that handles a lot of different things in the game world, from shop prices, to quests available, to the information NPCs will offer you. Skyrim might be a better sandbox in that it is (very arguably) less directed in that the main quest stuff is pushed to the background, but Morrowind uses its sandbox elements to form a much more coherent RPG-style experience which is enriched by them not diminished.

 

[Metro]

... but definelty not "go here, do that"

That's exactly what I would consider it. It's basically a chain of MMO quests. But at least in an MMO like WoW I can jump over shit to get to the locations faster.

 

[Brayko]

Metro has an obsession with WoW seeing as how he compares every game to it.

 

[skuphundaku]

et tu skuphundaku , brofisting a half-enlightened and ill-informed post?

Bro, nobody's perfect. I was agreeing mostly with the fact that level scaling is, generally speaking, shit, a disease that needs to be eradicated, and that it's an even greater travesty implementing level scaling in a fully-sandbox game than in a semi-on-rails game like BG2 or TW2.

See, we need a multiple ratings system to make it clearer.