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CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
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The writing of the main story is also very inconsistent. For example, you have the option to hand over control of your body at certain points in the story. When this happens for the first time, you’ll only see a super cut of what happened until you regain control. However, later in the story you keep control in this situation and can even make story decisions in them which make absolutely no sense.
I might be missing something since I still haven't bothered finishing the game, but I believe that's on purpose, a representation of your condition's progress with the implication that the construct is well along the way into supplanting the protagonist. When you relinquish control, Johnny takes over, so the first time you're watching him do his shit as an NPC, outside of the player's control. But as you do it more and more, Johnny's subsuming V and slowly being elevated to the status of PC, thus moving him into the player's sphere of control.

This is also reflected in your journal, which is presented in the second person as the voice V might be "hearing" inside of their head. When you start out, that voice is Jackie's, but as you progress, the Spanish terms of endearment peter out and by the third chapter it's all Johnny.

I thought this aspect was well handled, actually.

I give :3/5:, but it is a huge missed opportunity and really nothing special.
Pretty much sums it up, yeah.
 

ADL

Prophet
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Nantucket
I've been revisiting the game with Tyler McVicker's 100+ mod spreadsheet and this one in particular really sticks out. Has anyone tried it?
Immersive Roleplay provide a new game experience.
- Gang Wars
- Multiplayer feature
- Scripting System
- Flying AV
- Editor in Game
- Custom Quest
- Taxi mission and service
- Team building
- Custom house, housing and interaction
- A framework to design your own world in Night city !
https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/1339?tab=description


Need to test it later. Seems to be quite advanced and it is more like whole API than just a mod.
I've been playing around with it for a couple days now and it certainly gives life to the open world. Haven't created anything but based on the downloadable modules available it appears to be extremely robust. The multiplayer is extremely primitive at the moment but there's potential to do something like Watch Dogs 2's multiplayer where others can phase into your world and interact with you through gang wars, player hack events and co-op heist missions created with the API.

 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
2,117
I might be missing something since I still haven't bothered finishing the game, but I believe that's on purpose, a representation of your condition's progress with the implication that the construct is well along the way into supplanting the protagonist. When you relinquish control, Johnny takes over, so the first time you're watching him do his shit as an NPC, outside of the player's control. But as you do it more and more, Johnny's subsuming V and slowly being elevated to the status of PC, thus moving him into the player's sphere of control.
This stuff flew over the head of 95% of people who played it. That and the unrealiable narratorness of Johny.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I might be missing something since I still haven't bothered finishing the game, but I believe that's on purpose, a representation of your condition's progress with the implication that the construct is well along the way into supplanting the protagonist. When you relinquish control, Johnny takes over, so the first time you're watching him do his shit as an NPC, outside of the player's control. But as you do it more and more, Johnny's subsuming V and slowly being elevated to the status of PC, thus moving him into the player's sphere of control.
This stuff flew over the head of 95% of people who played it. That and the unrealiable narratorness of Johny.
I'm sure it did, it also went over the writer's heads.
Glad to see the cope is still going months later.
 

Tavar

Cipher
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Germany
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
The writing of the main story is also very inconsistent. For example, you have the option to hand over control of your body at certain points in the story. When this happens for the first time, you’ll only see a super cut of what happened until you regain control. However, later in the story you keep control in this situation and can even make story decisions in them which make absolutely no sense.
I might be missing something since I still haven't bothered finishing the game, but I believe that's on purpose, a representation of your condition's progress with the implication that the construct is well along the way into supplanting the protagonist. When you relinquish control, Johnny takes over, so the first time you're watching him do his shit as an NPC, outside of the player's control. But as you do it more and more, Johnny's subsuming V and slowly being elevated to the status of PC, thus moving him into the player's sphere of control.

This is also reflected in your journal, which is presented in the second person as the voice V might be "hearing" inside of their head. When you start out, that voice is Jackie's, but as you progress, the Spanish terms of endearment peter out and by the third chapter it's all Johnny.

I thought this aspect was well handled, actually.

If this was their intention then they did a poor job of presenting it. You first hand over control during the "Chippin' In" side quest where you'll see the super cut. This leads to the next side quest "Blistering Love" where you already have direct control over Johnny and this happens within two ingame days. There is no gradual build up, no comment from V that he now sees more when Johnny is in charge, nothing. Also, if V is your character, should you even be able to play Johnny at all? Him taking over control should lead to less control instead of more. Given the state of the game it is hard to be sure.
 

Sykar

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Gargaune

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This stuff flew over the head of 95% of people who played it. That and the unrealiable narratorness of Johny.
Yeah, I liked how they handled Johnny as a character. Alt explicitly points out the construct's deranged, self-deluding nature, and his flashbacks really drive home just how much of a narcissistic, violent psychopath he really is. It was amusing picking his most egotistical, megalomaniacal responses because they fit.

If this was their intention then they did a poor job of presenting it. You first hand over control during the "Chippin' In" side quest where you'll see the super cut. This leads to the next side quest "Blistering Love" where you already have direct control over Johnny and this happens within two ingame days. There is no gradual build up, no comment from V that he now sees more when Johnny is in charge, nothing. Also, if V is your character, should you even be able to play Johnny at all? Him taking over control should lead to less control instead of more. Given the state of the game it is hard to be sure.
That's the point, Johnny's an NPC when you start out, which is why the first sequence is non-interactive, but as he overwrites more and more of V, he's gradually becoming the PC right under the player's nose, so the player gets agency over his choices. You're outright warned that this would happen by one of the other NPCs, I forget which, that the Silverhand construct acts as a virus and will eventually ask you to voluntarily surrender more of yourself to it under various pretenses, and if you choose to do that, the player's growing degree of agency over Johnny is meant to mirror's V's diminished state.

This is the narrative designer folding the cyberpunk literary motif of identity into the videogame design concept of Player-Player Character identity. In a general sense, what you see happening to Peralez from an external perspective you also see happening to V, but first hand, internally and underlined by the resulting gameplay implications. It's a smart move and one of the stronger points of Cyberpunk's design because it renders a constituting literary theme at the interactive level. The pacing isn't optimal, yes, but that criticism's true of the entire game.

You could do things the other way around, like you suggest, with the player exercising less control over the protagonist the more Johnny takes over, but it would be a weaker representation of the subject matter - the Silverhand construct isn't a rival to the player, but to the player character, to V. And, as V, the idea isn't that you're losing control of yourself, but that you're losing yourself altogether, becoming someone else. Thus, the end point of the engram takeover succeeding is that the player is still in control of the protagonist, but that protagonist has changed, and the way CDPR have chosen to portray that is subtle but effective.

You start out holding a can of orange soda. The more you drink from it, the taste changes. You're still holding it, it's still your can of orange soda, but by the end it tastes like lemon-lime.


P.S. There's a flipside to this in a different department, though I've yet to finish the game and confirm. If I got it right, engaging with the side content is also contextualised in the scope of Silverhand's influence? If so, it's a bad call from both a writing perspective, a mismatch with Silverhand's character, and a design one, seeing as it retroactively deprecates player agency à la Bioshock. "Would you kindly" is a great twist for a book or movie, but a massive misstep for a videogame.
 
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Tyrr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,630
All that discussion over Johnny, or deeper meanings of other stuff happening in CP2077 reminds me of this:

ZOUK30P.jpg
 

Can't handle the bacon

Guest
No dude, the same devs who designed every character to look like this:
honkhonk.png
honkhonk.png
honkhonk.png
also intentionally invested the plot with ultra-subtle nuisances that only 1% of their target audience would even notice.
 

Saravan

Savant
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
926
This game was hyped for years with so much promised shit that never even made it into the game. Superficial FPS with a skeleton crew for RPG mechanics. Can't believe it's even remotely defended here.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Messages
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Asp Hole
90% of this thread will be absolutely ready to suck CDPR's dick the moment they announce Twitcher 4

If it'll be an MMO then I don't know...Got to draw the line somewhere. Their plans for CDPR's future direction implied that they won't be focusing on standalone games like Witcher 1-3 anymore.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
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Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,604
Okay, I finished it at last. I've left a fair bit of content on the table, some of it I'll come back to, some of it I just didn't feel like doing, but I wanted to wrap up the main plot. Gotta say, I'd have liked a happy ending for V, but choosing to turn down Arasaka's CTRL+V deal and to return to Earth was less depressing than I thought it would be... It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?

There's one detail that I'm not following about the Mikoshi option in the Arasaka ending, though. The early build, Soulkiller, destroyed Johnny in the process of copying him, but obviously that wasn't the case with the later software Saburo used before visiting Yorinobu, and presumably it's not the case with the commercial release for all those wealthy "actors and politicians" unless it's an end-of-life procedure. Yet this is not the offer before V, Takemura tells you that "you will leave your body", implying it's the same process that Silverhand went through. Why, is it do with the damage already done by the prototype Relic? What did I miss?
 

mediocrepoet

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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Okay, I finished it at last. I've left a fair bit of content on the table, some of it I'll come back to, some of it I just didn't feel like doing, but I wanted to wrap up the main plot. Gotta say, I'd have liked a happy ending for V, but choosing to turn down Arasaka's CTRL+V deal and to return to Earth was less depressing than I thought it would be... It's too bad she won't live. But then again, who does?

There's one detail that I'm not following about the Mikoshi option in the Arasaka ending, though. The early build, Soulkiller, destroyed Johnny in the process of copying him, but obviously that wasn't the case with the later software Saburo used before visiting Yorinobu, and presumably it's not the case with the commercial release for all those wealthy "actors and politicians" unless it's an end-of-life procedure. Yet this is not the offer before V, Takemura tells you that "you will leave your body", implying it's the same process that Silverhand went through. Why, is it do with the damage already done by the prototype Relic? What did I miss?

I got the impression that V basically has brain damage from whatever the engram is doing to him/her and the process is irreversible and cannot be stopped, so all they can do is upload whatever's left for preservation.
 

WhiskeyWolf

RPG Codex Polish Car Thief
Staff Member
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Messages
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Why, is it do with the damage already done by the prototype Relic? What did I miss?
There are two points that relate to this:
1. Since the prototype is housing Silverhand it may be the older version.
2. V is a special case since once he/she got a bullet to the brain the chip considered them a dead body and began the overwriting process, which is causing damage on something that is still alive and shouldn't be. "It is not you who has cheated death, it is death that has cheated you" - I understood this as V thinking he survived by a miracle, but the truth being that he/she was already a dead man walking.
 

Gargaune

Arcane
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,604
I got the impression that V basically has brain damage from whatever the engram is doing to him/her and the process is irreversible and cannot be stopped, so all they can do is upload whatever's left for preservation.
There are two points that relate to this:
1. Since the prototype is housing Silverhand it may be the older version.
2. V is a special case since once he/she got a bullet to the brain the chip considered them a dead body and began overrating them which is causing damage on something that is still alive. "It is not you who has cheated death, it is death that has cheated you" - I understood this as V thinking he survived by a miracle, but the truth being that he/she was already a dead man walking.
Yes, but V still has "around six months" to live and can choose to pass on the upload and go back to Night City. The thing is that whatever version of the procedure Saburo used obviously didn't destroy him in the process, it had to be done before you saw him visit Yorinobu, but the procedure Takemura offers clearly involves destroying V like it did Johnny, they can't both store their engram and return to NC to live out what's left of their time. When V asks why Arasaka can't provide a new body right away, like they did for Saburo, Takemura explains that the changes the Relic did made it impossible for current technology, but the game makes no mention why the copying process can't work the same way it did for Saburo. This is what I'm wondering about, whether I missed a detail there.

P.S. Or did they do the engram copy on Saburo after he died, like before the brain deteriorated too badly? Presumably Arasaka had access to it right away.

P.P.S. And one more thing - the space station being named Mikoshi, the orbital facility probably just shares the name of the data cloud but it did raise an eyebrow.
 
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Justicar

Dead game
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The process has obviously been perfected since the Johnny chip was made because the whole dispute between father and son is over selling the technology so rich Americans can upload their consciousness. And you get the Lizzy Wizzy side story about it too, and she's clearly alive after it.
Y the whole engram process has progressed in Johnnys day engram creation meant death of the person that went through the procedure. In 2077 they can just copy your brain contents and create your construct without you dying that's what they wanted to do with Lizzy Wizzy create a backup version of her.
 
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No dude, the same devs who designed every character to look like this:
honkhonk.png
honkhonk.png
honkhonk.png
also intentionally invested the plot with ultra-subtle nuisances that only 1% of their target audience would even notice.
Exaggeration. V being taken over by Ted is the main quest's plot and the journal writing style changing as the game progresses isn't something that requires elder scrolls levels of loremongering to detect.
 

Mefi

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waiting for a train at Perdido Street Station
Y the whole engram process has progressed in Johnnys day engram creation meant death of the person that went through the procedure. In 2077 they can just copy your brain contents and create your construct without you dying that's what they wanted to do with Lizzy Wizzy create a backup version of her.

Sorry, I deleted cos I realised I'd misunderstood the question. I think that question is explained by the Alt endings, isn't it? You need an AI to disentangle the two. So V becoming an engram is in fact the V/Johnny mix (and more Johnny than V at that point) becoming an engram.
 

Justicar

Dead game
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Sorry, I deleted cos I realised I'd misunderstood the question. I think that question is explained by the Alt endings, isn't it? You need an AI to disentangle the two. So V becoming an engram is in fact the V/Johnny mix (and more Johnny than V at that point) becoming an engram.
Yes she says that V construct was affected by Johnny construct even after she separetes V and Johnny so V is not he same person he was at the start of the game.
 

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