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Children of a Dead Earth

Discussion in 'Space Games' started by vean, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. VladimirK Learned

    VladimirK
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  2. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Bump.

    Got it recently.
    Quite fun (at least for some massively geeky interpretations of fun) and I haven't even unlocked the engineering part yet (you can override this lock if you want to).
    Could use more informative HUD, especially for orbital manoeuvrers.

    Has anyone got silver or gold in that Mercury L point mission?
     
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  3. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    Most accurate simulation of a kind of warfare that doesn't exist yet...

    :hmmm:

    I know, I know, we have a rough idea of what's most effective, but when you get people fighting in a new environment they very very quickly develop and adapt to it in ways that no one could've anticipated beforehand.

    Look at submarines in their early years, how their weapons were drilling holes in a ships hull or using a spar torpedo which was nothing but a bomb on the end of a long stick hopefully long enough that the sub was far enough away from the explosion to not get damaged enough to survive.

    What was Jules Verne's take on sub warfare? A serrated blade on the front top of Nautilus to rip open the underside of a ship, something IIRC, never tried with real subs because when it was feasible subs were too small and too underpowered to do anything to a hull that way and metal hulls were increasingly becoming the standard.

    Instead subs went from a hybrid with self-propelled torpedoes and a deck gun, that in practice during the World Wars made them more a surface ship that could submerge and have limited fighting capability while underwater, to what we'd expect of a submarine with the advent of nuclear power (and snorkeling) and self-guided torpedoes fully capable of fighting submerged to the point that being surfaced was nothing but a weakness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  4. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    You don't seem to get the whole point of the excercise that is COADE. It was to start out without assumptions, but just feed a whole lot of physics and solved or at least well researched engineering into the game to then use it to figure out what works and what does not - with the considerable help of infinite monkeys players.
    And, some minor wonks aside, it seems to do just that, just fine.

    Besides, it's pretty much the only contender here, because aside from COADE the number of space warfare simulations pretending to any sort of accuracy, or indeed simulation is nil.
     
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  5. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Beastro:
    As clear a statement of purpose as one can make:
    https://childrenofadeadearth.wordpress.com/2016/04/15/how-realistic-is-it-actually/
    Or in other words:
    :obviously:
     
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  6. Burning Bridges Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk

    Burning Bridges
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    Yeah let's rip all our clothes off, smear our naked bodies with feces, run outside and yell "we shall have no vision in mind"
     
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  7. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    U just jelly, bro.
     
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  8. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    I have managed to build myself a fairly versatile ship for the Main Belt Extraction mission where you need to knock out a gunship (a tough mofo) without killing its crew (still just stock modules at this point so no nuke shooting autocannons, ludicrous velocity electric guns spamming tens of thousands rounds per second, ravening beams of death or even stupidly powerful NTRs). It can beat it with minimal damage without resorting to long range missile spam EZ-mode.

    It started as modification of stock laser frigate that got massive array of redundant 60MW 1mm coilguns (to accont for overheating and attrition) on its nose along with some titanium nitride coating (high melting point and purdy colour - I'm still clueless at armour design), and assorted modifications that drove its price to relatively unreasonable levels (basically filling entire mission budget - credits and mass - with this single ship).
    That turned out to be pretty effective and reliable approach as those guns are both tiny (making them difficult to hit) and hideously rapid firing making them excellent at sandblasting radiators and assorted equipment off enemy ships even though they fail to do much against armour, but it still ended up with my ship being noticeably worse for the wear.

    So I sat down and started to tweak stuff - stripped ship's rear of armor for lest cost, weight and targetable cross-section, reduced the number of spammy sandblasters and spread them out across the (now much pointier) nose, leaving only 3 pointing forwards (and instantly ready to fire with rest being able to take their time turning - those guns suck at tracking speed, BTW), tweaked the armaments a bit (replaced some stuff with two massive coilguns - secondary sluggers for piercing armor when necessary and knocking enemy ships off-balance, replaced flak blast launchers with nuke blast launchers - mostly used as decoys in this mission as I managed to KO enemy ship before they even made one third their way to the target once, but generally meant to vaporize Wipple shields to offset sandcaster's shit penetration) and adding much more thrusters - both main NTRs and methane-LOX RCS, readding violet laser and making the whole thing purdier by being bilaterally instead of radially symmetrical (fuck you, I evolved on solid ground, I am not some fucking starfish).

    The result ended up being both heavier hitting and much more agile. This thing DANCES around enemy bullet streams while maintaining nose forward orientation and spamming its own OUCH. No subsystem damage is quite realistic even if not exactly the expected outcome (you may get a clipped radiator here, a notched RCS nozzle there or even a missing turret) and even though expecting no damage at all would be stretching it, I did manage to do it once with just single hit against my vessel (admittedly, while using nukes as hard to ignore decoys to give enemy lasers something to do - can't dodge those).
    :love:
     
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  9. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    I noticed in the video above the missiles would burn all their fuel immediately and not worry about terminal guidance - is this just the way missiles work in CoaDE, or is it simply more effective this way with relatively short ranges and limited acceleration available to the ships?
     
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  10. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    This is, sadly, the missile AI being derp - although if I understand correctly you can customize the AI controller after you unlock module design.
    Game's AI and some other aspects aren't very strong (for example combat and pre-combat manoeuvring are kind of disjoint which sometimes produces stupid artifacts) and GUI feedback is rather lacking. It's main strength is incredibly detailed physics and engineering simulation - you can build your own ship and later your own modules and pit that against premade or custom craft in all sorts of scenarios.

    Still, this is a game where you can design your own craft complete with your custom reactors, lasers, railguns, rocket engines and spaced armour, etc. manoeuvre it around using detailed orbital physics (and the techs available are not nearly powerful enough to allow you to simply ignore orbits around anything more massive than mid-size asteroid) and blow shit up in an avalanche of nukes and railgun fire which is immensely awesome if you crave for diamond hard SF experience.
     
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  11. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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  12. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    Tried this out, it's pretty simple but fun to play so far. I'm sure it will get more interesting with ship/module design.
     
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  13. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Well, the main beef of the game are sandbox aspects - design, then using simulation to test ships, components and tactics in various scenarios, campaign is pretty much an afterthought.
     
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  14. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Oh, and BTW:
    Polygonal armour is of course less efficient in terms of mass and cost. It's main use so far seems to be making your craft look badass, but there also seem to be somewhat niche ways to also make it genuinely useful:
    • for dedicated, half-armoured broadsider (like vanilla Sentinel, which got an upgrade to polygonal) you can use it to maximize slope (for symmetrical broadsider it only offers nice flat surfaces to pierce in some orientations, so only use it if your craft has well defined "towards enemy" side).
    • For head-on combat ships it might be useful to help force weapon layout irregularities which may be helpful for head-on rolling to make targetting our individual weapons harder and to stack multiple limited angle weapons with the same facing - it seems to be marginal but I haven't explored that fully.
    • If you use RCS for attitude control, you can use polygonal layout to massively improve your craft's rolling performance.
    Form-fitting armour may be useful or detrimental depending on your ship's layout. It seems like a good idea if you would like to make partially armoured craft but fear nukes, as it allows you to make full armour (with partial layers) without broad and heavy skirt on the rear end.

    Even tinkering with just layouts is fucking addictive.
     
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  15. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Ok, Vesta Overkill was a pretty
    :shredder:
    experience.

    Good thing I picked up the zombieship trick which allowed me to keep use of my new experimental frig after loss of all hands on board due to getting in the way of swarm of BRRRRAP from swarm of drones, and getting gutted (and my stupidly overcomplicated frig pretty much saved the day as it was the only ship that could, even gutted and with fraction of power generation, be referred to as "operational" at the end - I've lost one due to stupid decision, one I don't even know when, and one remained alive but without delta-v nor any armaments that would count).

    Could probably have been easier if I didn't lose my small drone carrier (stock) early - drones make better counter than missiles against both missile swarms and other drones and they are downright scary against capships because they can bring tons of heavy, low-velocity conventional bullets close enough to be practical, when your typical spaceship relies on lightweight spaced armour that only really does well against hypervelocity impacts by relatively small rounds that can be reasonably accelerated to high velocities in sufficient numbers to hit.

    I also decided to replay Main Belt Extraction which has turned into my quickie ship test scenario using default stock fleet instead of my own attempts at enjineeraning and shit was epic, with my badly messed up (after fire exchange) ships hurtling past that little moonlet Remus and then also scarred enemy ship deciding to navigate around and give chase resulting frenetic fire exchange between barely functional and badly scarred ships against the receding backdrop of the asteroid (all in all noticeably less cratered than any of the combatants).
     
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  16. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Went through Vesta once more, this time with my newly reworked 12kt destroyer (bigger crew, internal spall shields, some neat shooting toys like nuke autocannon and flak missile autocannon and some improvements over vanilla stuff - mostly accuracy and turret survivability) and, to fill up my mass budget, tiny 1kt light attack craft I made (partially armoured, and using the same design philosophy as all my ships to date - dedicated methane-LOX RCS and booster to enhance combat manoeuvrability, but retaining gimbals as backup and to not waste LOX out of combat, angular armour for better rolling, and relying on armour sloping rather than thickness).

    Ended up cutting everything to ribbons - mostly hands off too - I mainly just decided when to fire the nuke gun (to soften drone swarms and the like) and enabled/disabled RCS thrusters to conserve LOX, while taking only minor damage (mostly because I fucked up handling one drone intercept) - tinyship suffered from clipped radiator and destroyed auxiliary booster (which generally dangled free outside of armour), while destroyer lost all laser turrets, some radiators, a gun or two, an RCS thruster and suffered one actual armour penetration (that did fuck all - flew a short way inside then thunked into spall shield) - mind you, that's after getting BRRAPPED all over by leftover drones (due to aforementioned fuck up).
    :lol:

    Ok, I was lying - that was on my second attempt, on my first one with this set up I decided to fire everything when finally intercepted by enemy capital fleet which first dropped the FPS to (low) fractions, then after a while crashed the game because there was just too much shit flying around.
    :lol:

    Still, it went remarkably well without resorting to drone spam and laborous counter intercepts of enemy drone and missile fleets, or some ludicrous feats of engineering allowing you to wipe everything megameters before they get you in their weapon range - just a massive ship with good maneuvrability, sloped armour and lots and lots of gun.
    :incline:

    I also dropped the zombieship trick as it's pretty much a 'sploit.

    BROTIP:
    Hitting enemy ships in any launchers (or big, conventional guns) they have is remarkably effective as 'splody munitions hurt a lot.
     
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  17. Runciter Savant

    Runciter
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    Screenshots or it didn't happen
     
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  18. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Which ones do you want? I have some from the original run, with enemy fleet being cut to ribbons, and a bunch from 2 reruns yesterday, featuring this + post completion shots.
     
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  19. Runciter Savant

    Runciter
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    Show us everything you've got! But seriously, interested in the realistic designs that turn out to be the efficient space fighters they are. I spent some time reading the CoaDE blog posts on realistic space combat and it's fascinating.
     
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  20. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    At 12kt, length around 200m and somewhere around 100 personnel on board I would hardly call it a fighter and I can't really vouch for its efficiency other than that it massacres stock designs for less mass and much less cost and does a pretty good job not getting shot up much and not dying if it does.
    It started prior to last patch as modification of stock laser frigate utilizing redundant array of inexpensive coilguns (stock 60MW 1mm) to sandblast the enemy, then I fiddled around with it trying to get it to suck less - generally aiming for better agility, armament and configuration allowing it to survive frontal assault without taking much damage, while also doing my best to make it look badass and be a pleasure to fly (because if I didn't want a cool ship I would have probably gone with giant flashlight or a tincan full of missiles, both of which seem to be effective, although I'm reserving my judgement until a patch allowing multi-intercepts, because those should wreck MPD propelled flashlights hard).
    It's a continuous work in progress, because I'm tweaking things all the time - for example I have recently added methane MPDs for long distance cruising, made some new railguns, backup RTGs for crew modules (that should allow for things like shutting down whole main power generation), creative gun fired payloads involving nukes and blast fired submunitions (would make it a missile, but missile with launchers on it thinks it is a drone), and experimented with somewhat nuke resistant propulsion scheme.
    It would be interesting what a seasoned optimizer could do with my ship even staying away from abuse of nonphysical corner cases and insane engineering practices (let's make our crew modules of potassium - it's light and cheap!).

    Anyway, here goes (gah, I hate uploading tons of screenies):
    The ship itself (open)

    [​IMG]

    [OLD] Early versions (previous patch) during Main Belt Extraction (open)

    Basically what happened after "well, modified frigate wins this battle but gets badly shot up, moves like a brick, and also got too big to be called a frigate, also it would be nice to just lose less coilguns instead of having to haul an buttload of spares":
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    Later Evolution and testing during Main Belt Extraction scenario (which became my go-to quick test scenario) (open)

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Vesta Overkill (open)

    Take 1, with more or less the ship mentioned and 1kt helper craft:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Take 2, similar config with tweaks, this time with completion screens and showcasing battle damage (I launched some staged strikers towards the end but failed to get an intercept due to multi intercept bug - anyway, stock missiles suck ;_; - flak missiles were cannon launched and fared better, but didn't make it to the enemy in time, so they were left floating in space - alone and forgotten):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    Take 3, because I like to tweak things and see how they turn out (also, I wanted to take some cinematic screenies):
    [​IMG]
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    more Main Belt Extraction (open)

    Sandblasters:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Sheer BRÜTALITY:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    Some smaller vessels (frigates and corvettes):
    [​IMG]
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    Done with vanilla ships, for lulz:
    [​IMG]
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    early attempts at something unorthodox which may also be somewhat non-consensual towards in-game ship editor (open)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  21. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Runciter
    Uploaded some more stuff in my previous post.
     
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  22. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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    This non-combat mission after Ceres is really hard (first mission you can make your own ships) :(
     
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  23. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    You can beat it with one of stock tankers or a similar construction.
    You need tons of delta-v but without negligible acceleration of most MPDs, so NTRs attached to huge blob of propellant tanks and a hab tucked somewhere.
     
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  24. RhodokMasterRaceOfficial Savant

    RhodokMasterRaceOfficial
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    You can beat that with the stock methane tanker. Large one I think.

    Might be worth shaving some of its unnecessary mass off to squeeze an extra km/s or two of Dv out of it, but it's probably not necessary. That's mostly just to get used to the practice of optimising your crafts.
     
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  25. Destroid Arcane

    Destroid
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