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Children of a Dead Earth

Discussion in 'Space Games' started by vean, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. Yaar Podshipnik Arcane Patron

    Yaar Podshipnik
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If he does, then he does so secretly, in his secret base under a volcano, while stroking his cat, in secret, and secretly thinking about putting some missiles on Starship (in the secret compartment).
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Don't ask if Elon Musk approves of this game, ask if this game approves of Elon Musk.
     
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  3. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    CoaDE is now on sale and costs a potato.

    Excuses no longer exists.
    Anyone who hasn't played it and tries to opine on any Sci-Fi/space related subject (game or otherwise) shall be laughed out of the respective thread.

    Are you a man enough to build giant phallic rocketships and kill other rocketships with them in the ultimate clash of space dongs?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  4. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Fuck that, buying it full price or not at all.
     
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  5. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    You're an evil evil person. I've acquired dem dongs. I just hope it won't make a homo.
     
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  6. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    You will certainly eat a lot of nuke tipped space dongs in it before you git gud.
    :martini:
    Appropriately named "Orbital Fallout" mission has enemy sling salvoes of 50x 2kt yield nukes at your still work in progress ship that is unfueled and immobile, stocked with only fraction of ammo and has completely unprotected station to defend.
    :troll:
    On an upside you get to commit warcrimes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  7. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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  8. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Nu screenies:
     
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  9. I'm Big Into Anal Arcane

    I'm Big Into Anal
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    you sweet talker you


    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Yaar Podshipnik Arcane Patron

    Yaar Podshipnik
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    How effective are those micromissiles? Not much boom from what I see but surprisingly lot of dV.
     
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  11. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Boom is pretty much inconsequential, just a way to spread damage around if they happen to end up inside enemy hull, they are meant as pure KKVs anyway. Maybe I'll convert them to bipropellant where both propellants are explosive monoprops so that any unspent propellant contributes.

    Anyway, they can be quite effective when launched in swarms. Some caveats:
    • Swarms are very taxing for CPU
    • They still have very limited delta-v so they need some high velocity delivery method.
    • They are fragile, you can't really armour something this tiny.
    • You pay severe small missile mass tax - guidance hardware masses about as much as propellant.
     
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  12. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    One thing pretty much every (other) game or show gets hilariously wrong about spaceships, and especially space warships:
    Waste heat and heat radiators.
    :obviously:
     
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  13. Yaar Podshipnik Arcane Patron

    Yaar Podshipnik
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    BTW, not COADE, but on topic of heat - Nertea is working on a more sensibile heat system for KSP. Should make thermal management in that game more sensible.
     
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  14. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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  15. Yaar Podshipnik Arcane Patron

    Yaar Podshipnik
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    a very [​IMG] codexian thing to say

    That's a pearl of gaming wisdom that should be true about way more games.
     
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  16. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Anyone willing to test campaign AI preset replacer we've been working on with another person?
    Aims are lag reduction and improvement of AI effectiveness with stock ships in campaign missions.

    Edit:
    Ok, AI upgrade seems pretty BRÜTAL so far.
    Not really n00b friendly, that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  17. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    AI preset replacer:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233547551
    Makes the campaign noticeably harder due to AI no longer being completely clueless with stock ships AND reduces the lag by limiting weapon spam.

    Might be frustrating for consoletards, children, developmentally impaired, n00bs and those who can't git gud.
    If you are one of the above, but still don't want spam (*cue Vikings singing*), use the link below instead for a
    :happytrollboy:,
    full
    :popamole:
    alternative.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2301816113
     
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  18. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    I've finally tried it.
    Thanks to some kerbal experience, I blew through everything straight up to Ceres and got my ass handed back to me. Twice. Now I'm thinking about
    Show Spoiler
    doing some missile spam and making a head-on rush to minimize the time that I spend being a sitting duck. I tend to hoard missiles for some reason (limited ammo!).

    I'm really salty about no savegame button. And about ship/part designer hidden behind some git gud wall (I've launched the game for them FFS, why are you forcing me to work for my cake? WTFITS some kind of old total war clone, where I have to destroy a nation to play it?).

    OTOH the game is fun.
    Shame there's no strategic layer, though. I'm sure fleet composition would've significantly changed if we had to play as a full faction all over the solar system not simply in the current tacticool sandbox.
     
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  19. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Ceres makes for a pretty neat exam of your understanding of different defense layers and weapon-countermeasure-velocity rock-paper-scissors - specifically you need to understand it well enough to be able to peel defense onion.
    All that after avoiding horrible death by enemy drones, that is.

    Git gud walls can be overriden, but it really helps to gitgud first. I'd even recommend not using custom modules at all during your first run because it quickly becomes ez mode shooting gallery with grossly outteched enemy (technically even making your ships out of stock modules can become ez mode, but not using that would be just inflicting massive blue balls on yourself).
     
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  20. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    Well, I run Ceres like 5 times already and lack of savescumming is seriously enraging.
    Show Spoiler
    I boost myself to the enemy fleet, 2-3 hours till fleet-to-fleet combat. They send missiles/drones, I send countermissiles. Then I spend like 10 minutes making miniscule course corrections because those faggots evade my interceptors. Then intercept finally happens, head on. Then half the time my missiles miss completely and half the other time they don't manage to disable the whole swarm. And then I send another stack only to spend another 10 minutes doing further miniscule course corrections.
    I'm pretty sure there's some combination of missile aiming settings that would allow me to shoot the bastards from the first try, it's just that I didn't find it yet.

    All of this's very tedious and really not entertaining. A real contrast to the first missions that literally flew by.
     
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  21. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Meh, you've just hit a difficulty spike.
    Namely - Ceres is the first mission that doesn't boil down to application of a single trick.
    Your options are to git gud or die trying.

    Lack of savescumming only ensures you actually need to know what you're doing rather than blunder your way through.
    It's not like a mission takes long (real time, that is) if you know how to beat it.

    You don't really need to missile enemy drones either. A slightly cheesy option is using beamdrones against them. The "canonical" one is dancing them out of dV while exploiting Oberth's effect.
     
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  22. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    Nah, it makes testing take a lot longer than it should've.
    I've suffered through Ceres for several hours before resorting to a sandbox (orbital fallout, missile schooner + support carrier VS escort carrier) to test some drone behaviour. And the more I test, the more enraging it becomes.
    Show Spoiler

    Here's a first test. Drones are coming at me, I've launched some missiles to intercept them. I press "T" and quickly plot the course.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    Then I want to make some couse corrections and press "T" again and maneuver node gets discarded because fuck usability, dear player, do everything again.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    2 minutes of my life are wasted for nothing.
    Whatever, I redo a trajectory and about 30 ingame minutes later my missile stack (white circle) moves to intercept (red diamond) enemy drones (red triangle) to protect my fleet (green diamond).
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    Then I end the minimal one-minute turn and what do I see?
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    Intercept, bitch!
    In case it's not clear, those drones bypass my missiles and jump straight to my ships. Kinda like this.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    (I had several such events. During one of those, an especially infuriating one, my first stack of missiles did intercept an enemy fleet and did nothing. While the battle went by, another stack of missiles flew by the enemy fleet on a strategic map without colliding even though it should've initiated and intercept. Because fuck that skinny usability in the ass with a demon boil, no superlube necessary.)

    Ok, let's try it another time. Now I launch the missiles properly in advance.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    They intercept. See, I have 40 missiles vs 15 drones, about 2.5 to 1, moving head on, on default script ("distribute homing"), so they should try to to hit different targets.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    It might be not really clear from the image, but I watched what had happened like a hawk.
    What happened is that about 2/3 of my cloud tried to aim at 2-3 outlying drones and others do some random shit, accelerating in random directions.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    And only a single missile hits.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    No craft destroyed.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    Only minimal damage is done.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    So I went to check WTF has happened. It seems that missiles have 2 and 1 km/s dV versus 3.5 km/s of drones so they don't seem to be able to catch up to them at all.
    Then my rage subsided a bit because it's a pretty "realistic" thing to have. Missiles are probably designed to hit large slowly accelerating vessels not those drone midgets.
    But then the rage roze again because
    a) Nobody told me that simple fact.
    Ceres is a first mission that doesn't explain me a necessary weapon functionality. I got a page-long tutorial about some fantasy sandnigger politics instead. "Realistic", yes. Fuck this kind of realism.
    b) Missiles have no cloud-based behaviour (I'm pretty sure 2-3 missiles could've boxed a single target into a non-evadable trajectory by doing a radial acceleration and then converging on the target). And they don't even seem to be able to properly distribute their targets.
    b2) I've tried distributing them manually ("move to a spherical segment" and later "home to a target"). Missiles override my orders and still try to aim at 1-2 targets within a cloud. You can see it pretty clearly here.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    c) Fucking GUI lacks basic functions that would override retarded default behaviour. I can't even point and click missiles to specific targets, FFS.

    d) Oh and when I restart missions in a sandbox, orbits of the fleets change. And I can't seem to make the setup permanent without modding. So I can't even run clean repeatable tests in a fucking sandbox whose sole purpose is to do controllable testing.
    e) I don't even mention that the game lacks combat sandbox, without any stellar-body map whatsoever.


    So my problem is not about gitting gud. It's about having to fight for information through a half-assed interface that replaces a basic usability with some strange fiddly bits.

    I've opened all editor functions. I had so much hope for this game that I'm not prepared to give up just yet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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  23. Demo.Graph Learned

    Demo.Graph
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    I spent about 4 hours more in ship and part designers and I must say, I'm not overhyped anymore. I keep stumbling upon a functionality that I grew accustomed to in KSP and that is absent here (like part rotation or subassemblies). There's also this.
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    This's a shadow of the craft in the ship editor. It's inverted for some reason. The craft is supposed to "float in space".
    There're many small irritations like these. Lighting in the editor can't be adjusted. Dragging parts over the craft is unintuitive and jumpy. There're invisible hull dividers (like structural beams in KSP) that kinda depend on a craft having a barrel of armor around it and don't make much sense otherwise. These and other things make a process of ship design uncomfortable for me.
    I also can't find any coherent reason to design and optimize spacecraft as there's no strategic layer to use them in and sandbox missions' masturbation can only entertain for so long.

    All in all I have an impression that in it's current state it's maybe a beta version (at best) or a technical alpha (more likely) of a very nice game. It's definitely not a completed product. Abundant typos only enforce this impression.

    Shame, really, because it seems that the dev had abandoned it. So it would likely fade in history together with EOFS, Civ:CTP, Morrowind and other games that were great in concept but were shipped in a state of unfinished buggy mess.

    At least I'm glad that I paid less than a dollar for it. A half-assed price for a half-assed product looks like a bargain.
     
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  24. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Intercept radius (think of it as "bubble") is based on weapon effective ranges. In this case enemy drones' 33mm cannon (slow projectiles) against your missiles (very small targets) VS the same 33mm cannons against your much larger capships and your ships' railguns (reasonably fast and not too inaccurate) against drones (small, but not nearly as small as your missiles).

    Sadly the game only accounts for 1v1 intercepts - it's a pretty painful limitation.

    Probably 1-3 drones started burning their engines, trolling your missiles.

    That's actually pretty good - you've turned this drone into a pretty shitty KKV. It's now only a threat if it impacts directly.

    True. Making missile that can reliably hit drones (or missiles) is pretty damn hard. Your best bet is using nukes for that as they need neither direct hit (KKV), nor almost direct hit (flak).
    A Stinger drone that is actively burning increases heat signature by about 3 orders of magnitude. IIRC stock control modules have cutoff around 80% so anything below 80% of the biggest signature doesn't even register as potential target as far as stock missiles are concerned.
    And yeah, missile guidance is pretty primitive.

     
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  25. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Those are mostly for shaping armour. For example creating pointy nose to have good slope when orienting nose forward. Or creating a "slot" to let large turrets sink-in without creating a massive bulge.

    Arguably designing and testing ships and modules is THE core gameplay in CoaDE - it was built as a tool for exploring space combatc concepts first and foremost - but you can build and use custom stuff in later parts of the campaign.
    You can also exchange designs with other players - there were even tournaments where people designed ships and ran AI vs AI with them.
     
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