Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Xeon]

That's their first game tho using the engine and new IP with barely any time to develop it. I hope they do good job in the sequel or another IP since they are getting accustomed to the engine I hope.

I kinda don't like the game so far but kinda looking forward to the patch and DLCs, not getting my hopes up tho, kinda don't want to be overly disappointed.

 

[Crooked Bee]

We're really gonna need a Sensukiland subforum if this keeps up.

 

[Lhynn]

I think we can assume Codex has some sort of poe-OCD.
That makes me happy.

It really was that shitty.

We're really gonna need a Sensukiland subforum if this keeps up.

Well, PoE was the last thing avellone was working on for obsidian, isnt he already done with the novels btw? any update on that or is obs just gonna ignore it?

 

[Irenaeus II]

PoE was great. Disregard Lhynn

 

[Roguey]

any update on that or is obs just gonna ignore it?

It's holiday time, we're not going to hear anything from Obsidian for weeks.

 

[Azarkon]

PoE bitching on here has more to do with many on the board reacting to the game like their wife cheated on them than anything to do specifically with the game.

It's a butthurt sense of betrayal that Obsidian of all developers made such a bland game and they're constantly chewing the scenery over their beloved ones dropping the ball when they were meant deliver the perfect RPG that would save the genre (and possibly gaming as a whole).

It's the worst kind of hype-backlash and fanboyism that prevents this forgettable game from being forgotten.

It doesn't change the valid points the likes of Sensuki make about the game, it's just that they keep doing it like that ex-husband ranting to everyone over how much of a bitch his wife was to him and how he can see everything wrong about her looking back on the relationship.

Many of the most vocal critics were not only Obsidian fans, but had put their money on the line for them during Kickstarter. That plus the amount of effort many Obsidian fans spent to help the game succeed, whether by being in the Beta, vouching for it on forums, etc., resulted in the backlash. This is, I suppose, one of the risks with being crowd funded - hell hath no fury as a fanboy scorned.

As to why Sawyer is targeted, and not Fenstermaker, Avellone, etc., it's because he kept a high profile and was responsible for most of the design decisions that people knew about. Fensternmaker actually does deserve a larger share of the blame/praise than he's given, but people don't know him well enough to say what he actually did, and he isn't a very public person with hundreds of quotes across different forums, interviews, etc.

Besides which, even though a lot of the talk now is about Pillars of Eternity's failures in plot, setting, and characters, during Beta and around the time of release, the bulk of the talk was about systems & mechanics, which was Sawyer's work. As an example, just look at early negative Codex reviews such as:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9867 from DarthRoxor
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...illars-of-eternity-very-minor-spoilers.98295/ from felipepepe

You'll see that all but a few paragraphs of it were dedicated to criticizing the class & combat systems.

Sure, we've had long threads about the writing in the game since then, but it's not been on the same level as the amount of attention people initially gave to the systems side of the game. Sensuki, DarthRoxor, felipepepe, and others all concentrated on the systems, and that's Sawyer, and so Sawyer has become synonymous with all that was wrong in Pillars of Eternity, even though a lot of the problems with the game's story & setting weren't due to him.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Few people on RPG Codex really know who is Fenstermaker or cares about him. Avellone wrote two companions who were altered for the final version of the game. Sawyer is the public face of PoE.

Discussion about PoE writing is going strong in Obsidian subforum with hundreds of good effort posts by yours truly and others, sometimes even arising from splitting discussion from this very thread.

That this bitching continues in this thread (Chris Avellone Appreciation Station) is shameful and should be pointed again and again how those who do it are out of control egotists.

 

[Infinitron]

It's holiday time, we're not going to hear anything from Obsidian for weeks.

Protip: If anybody ever says something about how they (or any other "big" RPG developer) would have worked through the holidays if they were hungry indies with SOUL, point them at this post: http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10029

 

[Azarkon]

Few people on RPG Codex really know who is Fenstermaker or cares about him. Avellone wrote two companions who were altered for the final version of the game. Sawyer is the public face of PoE.

Discussion about PoE writing is going strong in Obsidian subforum with hundreds of good effort posts by yours truly and others, sometimes even arising from splitting discussion from this very thread.

That this bitching continues in this thread (Chris Avellone Appreciation Station) is shameful and should be pointed again and again how those who do it are out of control egotists.

Sawyer and Pillars of Eternity come up in Chris Avellone's threads because a lot of people see Sawyer as the anti-Chris. In a few cases, this is due to the impression - liable to be false, but not certain - that Sawyer was responsible for Chris leaving Obsidian. But just as important is the belief that Sawyer & Chris stand for two opposite ends of RPG design: dry & historical vs. weird & fantastical, technical balance vs. creative imbalance, conservative & polished vs. ambitious & flawed, etc. This is also liable to be false as Chris has said many of the same words towards game design that Sawyer has. But as Chris's own games rarely matched what he said, people tend to just ignore those words.

 

[Fairfax]

This anti-Chris thing is something people do just for fun, I believe. It's my case, at least. I do believe there was a falling out and they don't necessarily like or talk to each other, but it's very unlikely that having a problem with Sawyer alone would've been enough for him to leave Obsidian.
His departure doesn't have to be related to some conflict between the two, although it's a fact that nothing good has ever come out from Sawyer and MCA working together. Closest thing was Cass, and in that case all Sawyer did was give him an arc and not cut the caracter.
As Duraframe put it:

That Avellone and Sawyer are two completly different people and designers is clear as day. Shame that they never seem to have been able to combine their strenghts for personal reasons or otherwise.

As for their design philosophies, I don't think they're nearly as similar as Sawyer fans would like to believe, and not as different as his detractors see it, but then again, who knows for sure? Sawyer has backpedalled and disowned so many things over the years I doubt even Roguey can properly define what he stands for.
Also, at the end of the day, actions speak louder, and the differences between "their" games speak louder than forum replies, interviews and tweets.

 

[Fairfax]

Very interesting reply, though Swen & co being nice to work with is hardly surprising.

 

[Hugh Vagoth]

MCA left because he realized he didn't have to limit himself to Obsidian anymore. The last three years of him being a toy boy for various Kickstarters supports that.

 

[Jaesun]

I want to see MCA as a Creative Lead on a new project, but I don't see that coming any time soon (or even if he want's to).

MCA as a Creative Lead on one of Larians games would be.......... Interesting.

 

[Anthedon]

 

[Viata]

MCA is happy now, so he can have fun doing things like before. I'm glad things are working for him, hope he can do something big working for Larian.

 

[Beastro]

That this bitching continues in this thread (Chris Avellone Appreciation Station) is shameful and should be pointed again and again how those who do it are out of control egotists.

The more you keep bitching about this bitching the more I hope it continues.

 

[Roguey]

His departure doesn't have to be related to some conflict between the two, although it's a fact that nothing good has ever come out from Sawyer and MCA working together.

That sounds like an opinion.

Sawyer has backpedalled and disowned so many things over the years I doubt even Roguey can properly define what he stands for.

I don't recall this.

Also, at the end of the day, actions speak louder, and the differences between "their" games speak louder than forum replies, interviews and tweets.

From the Feargus Urquhart perspective:

Knight of the Old Republic 2: Gave Obsidian an inescapable reputation for buggy, unifinished games, and wasn't as successful as the first.

Alpha Protocol: Bombed critically and commercially.

New Vegas: Obsidian's best selling game to date, outsold its predecessor, unlike kotor2.

Pillars of Eternity: Critically and commercially successful.

I agree, the differences are quite clear.

 

[Eirikur]

That SJW hipster who doesn't even have his own appreciation station, and who will never measure up to MCA, will be interviewed. You can submit questions about why he hates all things that are good here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/3xs3k0/interview_with_je_sawyer_coming_up_for_our_gaming/

 

[pippin]

Well if it isn't inxile, then Larian is the best company MCA could work for right now.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm still hoping that he'll help the other writers in this, or at least edit the bullshit out of their writing.

 

[karfhud]

Well if it isn't inxile, then Larian is the best company MCA could work for right now.

I'd say he's better off in a freelance-like position, that'd enable him to be more picky when it comes to projects. Rhianna Pratchett has been doing that for a while and seems it's working out for her.

 

[boobio]

MCA actually talks about the codex in this interview; saying that the codex helped him get a job at Larian, etc.

 

[Fairfax]

His departure doesn't have to be related to some conflict between the two, although it's a fact that nothing good has ever come out from Sawyer and MCA working together.

That sounds like an opinion.

Sawyer has backpedalled and disowned so many things over the years I doubt even Roguey can properly define what he stands for.

I don't recall this.

Also, at the end of the day, actions speak louder, and the differences between "their" games speak louder than forum replies, interviews and tweets.

From the Feargus Urquhart perspective:

Knight of the Old Republic 2: Gave Obsidian an inescapable reputation for buggy, unifinished games, and wasn't as successful as the first.

Alpha Protocol: Bombed critically and commercially.

New Vegas: Obsidian's best selling game to date, outsold its predecessor, unlike kotor2.

Pillars of Eternity: Critically and commercially successful.

I agree, the differences are quite clear.

That's some selective memory right there.

KotOR2 didn't give them the Bugsidian reputation. It was one buggy release, and then NWN2 and FNV solidified it.
New Vegas was by far their buggiest game ever, with 27,000 bugs fixed by fan patches after release. And who was the director on that game? Sure, Bethesda should be blamed for poor QA, just like LucasArts should be blamed for rushing KotOR2, but FNV was much worse. The game was so buggy it cost them a bonus that made a huge difference for the company's financial health.
AP: MCA joined halfway through to fix some of the mess Chris Parker had made. He wasn't director.

Sawyer also had:
NWN2: Mild success, lower scores and more negative reviews than the first, ultimately forgotten by players if not for fan mods and MotB.
XBLA RPG: cancelled.
Aliens RPG: cancelled in favor of Colonial Marines. Interestingly, according to the game looked fantastic when MCA was working on it as lead writer. Then next time he saw the game MCA had left to work on AP and he said the game didn't look very good anymore. I wonder why?

Last but not least:

Icewind Dale x Planescape: Torment

 

[pippin]

All Obsidian games have been sleeper hits though. Excluding DS3, I believe. People actively reccomend playing games like KOTOR2, NV and AP just because they don't have asinine writing like many other AA or AAA games. If we're going to consider only the reception the games had on release day, then we're falling in the metacritic fanboy category, if you know what I mean.

 

[Hugh Vagoth]

Lol @ people trying construct some weirdo soap opera drama out of MCA's and Sawyers working relationship. You need to get your head out of your asses.