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Civilization VI - Now available, so you can sink all your free time into it

Snorkack

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beyond the usual fanboy crap.
dismissing those arguments as fanboy crap doesn't make them any less valid.
I have played all 'real' Civs (No call to power, no BE etc, just the ones with a number) so I do think I have some authority on forming an opinion. Civ 4 + its expansions introduced a shitload of new mechanics over its predecessors. And while there are indeed some that are utter shit and/or unbalanced a.f. (Spies, vassal states, corporations), you can safely ignore them in most cases. But for each borked mechanic you also find three other new ones that tie very well into the game and opens up many new unpreceded options and situations. Think about the cultural borders, the huge number of tile improvements that actually matter, the great persons, unit promotions,... Even small things like forest chops or pop whipping are tools that provide more depth and possibilities.
Only thing you're referencing is the diplomacy of Civ 3. But what you're describing is not complexity, but obscurity.
 

Starwars

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Seems the best way to win Civ6 is to chop down all forests around your cities and to build units and then sell them for lots of cash. So if you settle your city in area with not a lot of forests around, you are screwed.

There are a few extremely broken exploits in the game right now, hehe.

The game is definitely in need of fixing but it's still quite fun to me. Civ IV appears to stay my favorite Civ but sometimes it's kinda fun to have alternatives you know? I've played that game so much that it's nice to try something slightly different. Whether it be Endless Legend, Civ VI or whatever.
 

ArchAngel

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Seems the best way to win Civ6 is to chop down all forests around your cities and to build units and then sell them for lots of cash. So if you settle your city in area with not a lot of forests around, you are screwed.

There are a few extremely broken exploits in the game right now, hehe.

The game is definitely in need of fixing but it's still quite fun to me. Civ IV appears to stay my favorite Civ but sometimes it's kinda fun to have alternatives you know? I've played that game so much that it's nice to try something slightly different. Whether it be Endless Legend, Civ VI or whatever.
Endless Legend remains my favorite Civ :)
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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dismissing those arguments as fanboy crap doesn't make them any less valid.

Their validity rests on their ability to hold up in conversation. Not being willing to have the conversation suggests its fanboy crap.

I have played all 'real' Civs (No call to power, no BE etc, just the ones with a number) so I do think I have some authority on forming an opinion.

Awesome, then I bet all you're points will all hold up easily to the most basic scrutiny:

Civ 4 + its expansions introduced a shitload of new mechanics over its predecessors. And while there are indeed some that are utter shit and/or unbalanced a.f. (Spies, vassal states, corporations), you can safely ignore them in most cases. But for each borked mechanic you also find three other new ones that tie very well into the game and opens up many new unpreceded options and situations.

The hype is real! So when do we get to the actual facts... :

Think about the cultural borders

Firstly, Civ3 had Cultural borders as do later Civs, what makes Civ4's Cultural Border system 'the mos complex'/'best'?

Points to debate: Civ4's Cultural Borders reduced complexity, just as Civ 3's did, because 1) you didn't have to think about city placement so carefully and could dump a city anywhere in the right general vicinity of decent tiles. 2) Cultural flips made war options less complex as the strategy of just shrinking a neighbour down a bit has vanished from the game, you now have to either raze or take the entire Civ AI out lest your taken city simply flips back to it's previous owner. 3) Civ 2 had Civil Wars whereby capturing a rival Capital instigated a Civil War which split their empire (or yours) in two, providing a lot more options when deciding on how to effect a civilisation's borders. 4) Cultural borders are not an option involving choices, they are something that happens automatically and it's stupid if you don't invest something into its production.

the huge number of tile improvements that actually matter

When have tile improvements not mattered? Are you even going to list any that are unique to 4 and somehow represent something meaningful to your argument?

the great persons

All of them? You mean like Great Artists and Great Philosophers? I remember being really quite underwhelmed when the partially non-controlable RNG gave me a shitty leader instead of the one I wanted. However, in Civ 3 Great Leaders are always great, because you can always use them to build a Great Wonder or an Army/Small Wonder. However, it's a bit shit in Civ3 that one of their uses, Scientific progress, simply doesn't work. A bug that no-one ever bothered to fix. Also in Civ 3 they only spawned from RNG in the first place, so they were even less controllable by player skill. It's not a complexity in Civ 4, it's just a bonus that pops up every now and then which, again, you'd have to be pretty dumb to not take notice of and let it do it's thing without much human involvement. At least in Civ 3 playing to generate Great Leaders is a genuinely alternative game path that can be specialised towards with complex knowledge and skills. You don't seem to want to mention why Civ4's leaders are supposedly so much more complex than any other game's...

unit promotions

What makes Civ 4's unit promotions any better than any other Civ game? My experience was that as soon as my Warrior got quite experienced the Tech-tree had moved on to the point where I needed to replace the unit with a better unit anyway. Also, because the game uses the same SHIT RNG that Civ 3 uses then Promotions don't necessarily mean shit anyway, you could still roll a 1 no matter how good they were... and the small percentage benefit is barely worth the effort of playing towards it and delaying your attacks to always get the improved unit at the front line, fully healed. It's just another bonus that happens and you say, cool, and move on without taking much notice of it. In Civ 3 acquiring Unit promotions can be a specific alternative option to battles where wasting a few turns healing and getting the guy to the front again can provide serious long-term benefits as only Elite Units can produce Great Military Generals. If Civ 4 fully promoted Units can do something amazing that I'm not aware of, please let me know.

Even small things like forest chops or pop whipping are tools that provide more depth and possibilities.

They all have Forest Chops and Population Whipping, why are 4s so special?

Only thing you're referencing is the diplomacy of Civ 3. But what you're describing is not complexity, but obscurity.

That would be because I was replying to someone talking about Diplomacy... DIPSHIT.
 

kris

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i am sure we would. But I just pointed out that you made a long post about complexity in the cIv-series, but you didn't actually say anything about why you think so.

Now you added a line to dismiss the features in one game in the series. But what makes Civ the most complex? civ2 is basically just an improved and in most aspects more complex version of civ1.

I didn't say Civ1 was the most complex, I said I wouldn't make an argument that it wasn't because I didn't know enough about it - reading comprehension. Many have now stated Civ4 is somehow the 'best' or 'most complex' or whatever else point about Civ4 but supply zero actual content on why they believe this beyond the usual fanboy crap. What I believe is the most complex Civ game is fucking irrelevant, I haven't claimed any of them are 'the best' or 'most complex' - reading comprehension.

Reading comprehension you say? here is direct quote from the post I quoted before.

The Civ games have been becoming 'less complex' since Civ1. I've barely even played Civ1 and yet I get it when people say the decline has been constant.

You are CLEARLY saying that the games have been becoming less complex since Civ1, meaning it was the most complex. Doesn't matter that you then say you base this on other peoples opinion. You said this.

it is merely the 4th decline from Civ1's long list of sequels, it just happens to have an awful lot of My First Civ Game fans, just as, I predict, Civ6 will have one day as the Stream Generation gets their first decent quality new Civ game release (as in not-beta-like releases which have plagued the series from 3-5, to which 4 was no different than 3 or 5 in this regard).

Second quote from same post were you present the opinion that the games after Civ1 are "decline".

I get it, this is really about Civ4 and your annoyance that it is so well liked around here. Me, I am mostly just saying that civ1 was clearly not the most complex game that the others declined from. civ series is really best compared to the EU series in this aspect, as in how the second basically was just an improvement on the first and the subsequent ones tried to make things a little bit different.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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The Civ games have been becoming 'less complex' since Civ1. I've barely even played Civ1 and yet I get it when people say the decline has been constant.

You are CLEARLY saying that the games have been becoming less complex since Civ1, meaning it was the most complex. Doesn't matter that you then say you base this on other peoples opinion. You said this.

it is merely the 4th decline from Civ1's long list of sequels, it just happens to have an awful lot of My First Civ Game fans, just as, I predict, Civ6 will have one day as the Stream Generation gets their first decent quality new Civ game release (as in not-beta-like releases which have plagued the series from 3-5, to which 4 was no different than 3 or 5 in this regard).

Second quote from same post were you present the opinion that the games after Civ1 are "decline".

I get it, this is really about Civ4 and your annoyance that it is so well liked around here. Me, I am mostly just saying that civ1 was clearly not the most complex game that the others declined from. civ series is really best compared to the EU series in this aspect, as in how the second basically was just an improvement on the first and the subsequent ones tried to make things a little bit different.

Fair enough, if you want to parcel my quotes into non-contextualised nuggets that miss the wider picture of my narrative to fit your interpretation, fine, I'll swing round and follow your line. You think Civ4 is more complex than Civ1... any chance you can explain why you think that?

And you don't get it, I am not annoyed that many people here like Civ 4, I'm annoyed that many people here are using Civ 4 as some kind of Incline Yardstick, acting like they're the very IGN fanboys that we are supposedly free from on this site, making outrageous claims without any desire to back them up even the slightest bit, you know, dickheads. Yes, I'm annoyed that there appears to a dickhead contingent... wouldn't you be?
 

Snorkack

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Nah, I won't bother. I listed a number of mechanics that were either newly introduced or gained more depth compared to previous installments and you then tell me why you don't like them. Way to miss the point, boy
 

rezaf

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If so, fresh water is any lake or river tile. You get +3 housing for that.

No access to fresh water means no bonus housing, and growth takes forever.

Thanks.

Use the settler overlay: river tiles are green, coastal tiles are light blue, no fresh water is white, and too close to other city is red.

Alas, I was looking for a way to see this on my city screen. IIRC building an aqueduct provides fresh water, essentially, no?
Anyway, obviously I had the unreasonable expectation that the game should prominently display this more or less vital piece of information without me having to use the settler overlay backdoor.

Talking about the settler overlay, what's it with it sometimes displaying suitable city sites, and when you move your settler near there and toggle it again, it suddenly shows no city sites at all or maybe one halfway cross the globe? Is there a hotkey or something to see suggested locations?
 

kris

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Fair enough, if you want to parcel my quotes into non-contextualised nuggets that miss the wider picture of my narrative to fit your interpretation, fine, I'll swing round and follow your line. You think Civ4 is more complex than Civ1... any chance you can explain why you think that?

Now you are just pushing over the burden of proof to my yard.

It would be better to compare civ1 with civ2 since they are the most similar. but for me to even be able to argue this i would have to look into a lets play of civ1, since I hardly remember how everything worked in a game i played over 20 years ago. What i could say from the lets play is that civ's since the first one have indeed progressed and added more complexity in many ways. Combat for starters. in the first one units only had "attack" and "defense", no hp or abilities to work better against certain types (okay, had movement speed too). In later ones you had to take more things into consideration for combat. splash damage, counters, dedicated scouts that could traverse terrain better. In civ1 cities was also limited in several ways, as plots could at most produce 4 resources.

If i actually played the game a bit I am sure i could notice many more things. Are armies tied to resources? Luxury resources even in the game? Rush production? Slavery rush? Borders?
 

Dickie

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If so, fresh water is any lake or river tile. You get +3 housing for that.

No access to fresh water means no bonus housing, and growth takes forever.

Thanks.

Use the settler overlay: river tiles are green, coastal tiles are light blue, no fresh water is white, and too close to other city is red.

Alas, I was looking for a way to see this on my city screen. IIRC building an aqueduct provides fresh water, essentially, no?
Anyway, obviously I had the unreasonable expectation that the game should prominently display this more or less vital piece of information without me having to use the settler overlay backdoor.

Talking about the settler overlay, what's it with it sometimes displaying suitable city sites, and when you move your settler near there and toggle it again, it suddenly shows no city sites at all or maybe one halfway cross the globe? Is there a hotkey or something to see suggested locations?
Isn't it "housing from water"?

Housing_infobar.png
 

kris

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Alas, I was looking for a way to see this on my city screen. IIRC building an aqueduct provides fresh water, essentially, no?
Anyway, obviously I had the unreasonable expectation that the game should prominently display this more or less vital piece of information without me having to use the settler overlay backdoor.

Talking about the settler overlay, what's it with it sometimes displaying suitable city sites, and when you move your settler near there and toggle it again, it suddenly shows no city sites at all or maybe one halfway cross the globe? Is there a hotkey or something to see suggested locations?

you need to be at most one tile away from a source of freshwater to be able to build the aqueduct.
 

Lone Wolf

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Anyway, obviously I had the unreasonable expectation that the game should prominently display this more or less vital piece of information without me having to use the settler overlay backdoor.

Doesn't it do so when you select the settler? As in, selecting one automatically brings up the overlay.
 

Dickie

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Anyway, obviously I had the unreasonable expectation that the game should prominently display this more or less vital piece of information without me having to use the settler overlay backdoor.

Doesn't it do so when you select the settler? As in, selecting one automatically brings up the overlay.
I think he meant to check an already existing city.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Life lesson, founding your city in the middle of the desert might cause you to have population issues down the line. First day patch will resolve this problem by providing a warning pop-up if you are about to settle in the middle of a desert.
 

MilesBeyond

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I really don't know why I'm bothering with this. I mean, I do, because I'm procrastinating from work, but still.

Firstly, Civ3 had Cultural borders as do later Civs, what makes Civ4's Cultural Border system 'the mos complex'/'best'?

Points to debate: Civ4's Cultural Borders reduced complexity, just as Civ 3's did, because 1) you didn't have to think about city placement so carefully and could dump a city anywhere in the right general vicinity of decent tiles. 2) Cultural flips made war options less complex as the strategy of just shrinking a neighbour down a bit has vanished from the game, you now have to either raze or take the entire Civ AI out lest your taken city simply flips back to it's previous owner. 3) Civ 2 had Civil Wars whereby capturing a rival Capital instigated a Civil War which split their empire (or yours) in two, providing a lot more options when deciding on how to effect a civilisation's borders. 4) Cultural borders are not an option involving choices, they are something that happens automatically and it's stupid if you don't invest something into its production.

Civ 4's cultural borders are unique in the sense that they allow you to wage "cultural warfare," sniping tiles or even cities without having to fight over them. Whether it's because they're stronger than you, they've got a Defensive Pact with someone scary, you're tied up in wars on other fronts, or you just want one or two tiles but not badly enough to fight over them. With regards to 1, you still absolutely had to think about city placement, in fact possibly even moreso than in earlier installments, because your BFC wasn't immediately accessible. Until your borders popped, you could only work the eight tiles adjacent to you - and unless you're a Creative leader, it's probably going to be quite a while before those borders do pop. One of the most agonizing decisions about city placement in Civ 4 is whether it's worth moving away from a truly awesome BFC to get a pretty strong initial 8 tiles. I do actually partially agree with your second point: It can be frustrating to be forced to eliminate or almost eliminate another civ when all you wanted was one or two cities but their remaining cities exert such strong cultural influence that unless you've got a Great Artist to bomb with somewhere nearby, you won't be able to work any tiles (this is also why, perhaps somewhat counterintuitively, Creative is generally a better leader trait for warmongering than anything else). Civil Wars were done away with for a reason in Civ 3, and that's because as much as they're a cool concept, they ended up being more problematic than anything else. First, because if a player says, for example, "I want three opponents in this game," it's usually for a reason and they aren't massively enthused about having that number suddenly increase, and second because the AI simply didn't get the importance of preventing Civil war and so it became a magical "loliwin" button against them.

Your fourth point makes me question whether you've even played Civ 4. The amount of choices you have for cultural borders is pretty significant. Producing certain buildings, choosing certain leaders, running the right specialists, choosing certain civics, and debating whether to devote commerce to it are all major parts of expanding your cultural borders.

When have tile improvements not mattered? Are you even going to list any that are unique to 4 and somehow represent something meaningful to your argument?

Civ 4 was more complex in two ways: First, it implemented a food/commerce dichotomy. Now instead of roads giving commerce and being able to combine them with irrigation, you've got to choose between farms or cottages. This was a massive change, and actually resulted in one of the more interesting aspects of Civ 4: The choice between a Cottage Economy, Specialist Economy, or a Hybrid economy. The advent of Great Person Points meant that a city running a lot of Specialists was a far more viable strategy than it was in earlier Civs.

Second, it implemented more specialized tile improvements: Workshops, Watermills, Lumbermills, and Windmills. A sort of rite of passage for Civ 4 players is the moment when they begin to recognize when they should begin to replace Mines with Windmills, or how to structure a Workshop economy. Civ 4's worker game slowly reveals more of itself to you the more you become familiar with the game, and there's a degree of decision-making there that no other Civ has matched.

It also introduced major resource bonuses, which I liked.

the great persons

All of them? You mean like Great Artists and Great Philosophers? I remember being really quite underwhelmed when the partially non-controlable RNG gave me a shitty leader instead of the one I wanted. However, in Civ 3 Great Leaders are always great, because you can always use them to build a Great Wonder or an Army/Small Wonder. However, it's a bit shit in Civ3 that one of their uses, Scientific progress, simply doesn't work. A bug that no-one ever bothered to fix. Also in Civ 3 they only spawned from RNG in the first place, so they were even less controllable by player skill. It's not a complexity in Civ 4, it's just a bonus that pops up every now and then which, again, you'd have to be pretty dumb to not take notice of and let it do it's thing without much human involvement. At least in Civ 3 playing to generate Great Leaders is a genuinely alternative game path that can be specialised towards with complex knowledge and skills. You don't seem to want to mention why Civ4's leaders are supposedly so much more complex than any other game's...

There were no Great Philosophers in Civ 4. You've actually got a pretty idiosyncratic view of Civ 3 leaders - at least over at CivFanatics, leaders were generally regarded as one of the worst parts of the game, and Scientific Leaders are specifically one of the main reasons why there's a substantial part of the Civ 3 fanbase that maintains that Conquests made the game worse. Randomly generating a leader that could auto-build a Wonder was just wayyy too chaotic and frustrating. Civ 4 completely fixed the leader system. The RNG is entirely controllable, and I don't know why you'd think otherwise. The potential Great People a city can generated is determined 100% by player input - specifically, which specialists you choose to run and which wonders you choose to build. Again, this is one of the things that gave more choice to the game: "I'm running mostly scientists in this city, because I'm hoping to generate a Great Scientist, but I really need more production than what my tiles can give me. Running a Priest or two would beef that up, but then I'm at risk of polluting my Great Person Points with a Great Prophet that I don't need right now."

It is true that a weakness of Civ 4 is that not all Great People are created equal: Great Scientists are by far the best for the first half of the game, and then Great Merchants are by far the best for the second half of the game, and Great Engineers are second best for the whole game. Great Prophets are extremely powerful but you'll probably never need more than one or two, and Great Artists and Great Spies are generally mostly useful for specific styles of play. Absolutely indispensible if you need them, but Golden Age fodder otherwise.

Great People in Civ 4 are what makes running a Specialist economy viable, and being able to micro your cities and workers to get just the right amount of GPP in the right category to generate the right great person at the right time is a pretty popular style of play. The degree to which you can make Great People an alternative game path in Civ 4 is greater than the degree to which you can do so in Civ 3, and frankly, less game-breaking as well.

What makes Civ 4's unit promotions any better than any other Civ game? My experience was that as soon as my Warrior got quite experienced the Tech-tree had moved on to the point where I needed to replace the unit with a better unit anyway. Also, because the game uses the same SHIT RNG that Civ 3 uses then Promotions don't necessarily mean shit anyway, you could still roll a 1 no matter how good they were... and the small percentage benefit is barely worth the effort of playing towards it and delaying your attacks to always get the improved unit at the front line, fully healed. It's just another bonus that happens and you say, cool, and move on without taking much notice of it. In Civ 3 acquiring Unit promotions can be a specific alternative option to battles where wasting a few turns healing and getting the guy to the front again can provide serious long-term benefits as only Elite Units can produce Great Military Generals. If Civ 4 fully promoted Units can do something amazing that I'm not aware of, please let me know.

Again, this makes me wonder if you played Civ 4 for more than one or two games. The unit promotion system is dramatic and allows you to custom-tailor armies to certain situations. They weren't a "small percentage benefit," they were a drastic change that could allow units to take on different situations. Getting a unit to Medic III ASAP is, like, an essential part of any military campaign. The ability to speed up healing of everyone around you simply cannot be matched. A few City Raider promotions can make units extremely effective against cities, and of course, you can't sneeze at the massive power of siege with upgraded collateral damage. Also, a lot of the experience for promotions in Civ 4 is going to come from outside of combat - specifically, your Civic choices. If a city has a Barracks, then running Vassalage and Theocracy allows every unit built there to choose two promotions - three, if your leader is Charismatic. This lets you customize your army right out the gates. Of course, there are other powerful options for Civics in both of those fields as well, so it becomes a very difficult choice (moreso in the Religious tree - Vassalage is probably the weakest choice in the Legal tree).

High-tier promotions are also extremely powerful. You've got Blitz, which allows Mounted units (and tanks, of course) to attack multiple times in one turn without penalty; Drill IV, which gives you 3 guaranteed first strikes and 3 chances for a first strike, making it very possible for you to wipe out an enemy without taking damage; Commando, which lets you use enemy roads (something that happened by default in earlier games, sure, but in a game where you can't do it, the ability to do it becomes very powerful), and, of course, the investment-heavy Combat VI, conferring +75% strength and a bonus to healing.

The end result is that properly promoted units can often end up taking down even units from the next era (uh, depending. There can be huge gaps sometimes. Well-upgraded Pikemen taking down Cavalry is one thing, but don't expect well-upgraded Frigates to bring down Destroyers).

Civ 4's Promotions system is, effectively, an attempt to import SMAC's unit customization into a Civ environment. While it's obviously nowhere near as good as SMAC's workshop, it's still a massive step up from earlier Civs.


The long and short of it is that Civ 4 introduces a massive amount of new mechanics, most of which add a lot to the game's complexity. I haven't even touched on many of them - health, additional commerce sliders, religion, etc. Health in particular is a huge one - again, the type of thing that seems pointless or minor when you first play, but that can have a dramatic impact the more familiar you are with the game. Especially when it comes time to industrialize.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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I really don't know why I'm bothering with this. I mean, I do, because I'm procrastinating from work, but still.

Your fourth point makes me question whether you've even played Civ 4.

There were no Great Philosophers in Civ 4.

Again, this makes me wonder if you played Civ 4 for more than one or two games.

You made a great post and I'll reply to its points another day, I'm a bit tired now having metaphorically sat around talking tangential bollox for 12 hours with people who have no interest in actually debating your original assertion. What I'll do now is quickly clear up the above quoted crap bits so that when I come to reply to the good bits it's not sidetracked by nonsense:

I would assume you're bothering because it was you who made the claim that Civ4 was 'OBJECTIVELY more complex' than any other civ game. If you can't be arsed to back up that claim then I have no idea why you bring it up for debate in the first place. What a fucking retarded position to open up from. Right, that's got that out the way.

You twice ask me, either literally or rhetorically it doesn't matter, whether I've played much Civ4, but I have indicated in my initial reply to you that I tried it once for a looksey and didn't like it. So, yes, not much playtime there, but why would there be if I didn't like it? But, as I said, I later went back to give it a more proper go when I had run out of Civ alternatives at one point and there-in straight-off beat it at every win condition on Prince level and decided, again, that I simply didn't like it, it felt run-of-the-mill and lacked decision making. So, obviously, though not stated specifically, but fully implied, I have indeed only played a few games. But why would I play more, I didn't like it... it felt dumb. What can I say, I'm sorry I didn't buy into a lot of what you found magical, but I'll leave the explanation for that for the real post another day, as that relates to some things you've said, particularly regarding "well in the previous game you could do that anyway without all the faff" etc. That's got that out the way.

I apologise for saying Philosopher instead of Prophet, you got me. And that's done that bit.

I do agree with you on some points, but there are some which just make me facepalm generally. And that's the hype done, so now off to bed.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yeah, I'm going to leave this game for the moment.
All these nice features but the braindead AI breaks all the fun.
What's the point if they can't even possibly get a city from me, even with 10 to 1 numbers?
It's just a patience game until I win currently.
Let's wait for the patches..
 

Anthedon

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Played a LAN game of this yesterday, surprised that functionality still exists.

Anyway, the AI is as bad as everyone says. Japan couldn't take a single city from me despite an enormous quantitative superiority. Their units didn't even attack the city itself. They just kept shuffling around it until my ranged units killed them all. Even the AI in CivV managed to attack city tiles.
 

vonAchdorf

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Tried it but the AI is really annoying. I can't remember the AI not capturing a city / builder / settler if they could do it without retaliation in former CIV games. It really feels like the game doesn't want to hurt you too much during the first couple of rounds and lets an enemy horseman wait directly next to my builder instead of capturing it.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Played a LAN game of this yesterday, surprised that functionality still exists.

Anyway, the AI is as bad as everyone says. Japan couldn't take a single city from me despite an enormous quantitative superiority. Their units didn't even attack the city itself. They just kept shuffling around it until my ranged units killed them all. Even the AI in CivV managed to attack city tiles.
Exactly like that. In my last game France attacked me with around 20 units and I had 5. They hit the city two times in the whole battle(with some horsemen and not their 5+ siege units..) and the rest of the time they were shuffling the hurt units with the healthy ones until I killed them all.
Afterwards I attacked a city on a coastal tile, which had a catapult inside who for some inexplicable reason was going in the water and back in the city all the time, until... I killed it with my ships.

It's really a pity that the AI is so bad right now. I don't expect it to get "smart" and use "tactics", I just want to see it do the basics, like using and upgrading the units it has.
Also the city-state spam attacking is real, apparently most AIs consider their bonuses not as important as the actual cities they have and they just capture them all
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,909
It's been established that the AI is completely retarded and non-functional. I just don't understand how people can keep playing the game despite that fact, it just sucks the fun out for me. It's still fun to explore the tech trees and plan the construction of cities, I guess, but without a functional AI there doesn't seem to be much purpose to it.
 

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