CKII is released.

[Country_Gravy]

and to think EU4 is next with this

 

[Kane]

I think the reason for this DLC is balance concerns. The threat from the east are mongols, the threat from the south are arabs. France and stuff in the west can dwell and get fat uncontested.

 

[Malakal]

I think the reason for this DLC is balance concerns. The threat from the east are mongols, the threat from the south are arabs. France and stuff in the west can dwell and get fat uncontested.

Then why not reintroduce Vikings, at least that would make more sense.

Dont be ridiculous, this dlc makes no sense at all.

 

[Kane]

I think the reason for this DLC is balance concerns. The threat from the east are mongols, the threat from the south are arabs. France and stuff in the west can dwell and get fat uncontested.

Then why not reintroduce Vikings, at least that would make more sense.

Dont be ridiculous, this dlc makes no sense at all.

Because vikings are already done for? Also, where are they supposed to come from? At least the aztecs have a proper empire. And in the end it doesn't matter whether aztecs or vikings but we need something to spoil the fun on the west coast.

 

[oscar]

Create an alt-history where the Viking Age didn't end and was more successful. It serves the same purpose (a major threat for England and France), creates events for Indo-European pagans and is less outright retarded.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Fuck vikings, they don't have historical prerogative for having an expansion made for them.

 

[oscar]

Hell even having Admiral Zheng He's expedition turn up would make more sense.

 

[Malakal]

Yes, Aztecs didnt even have any ships or ship building capacity. Sending a man over the coast was beyond their ability, beyond the ocean? Please.

 

[IDtenT]

Yes, Aztecs didnt even have any ships or ship building capacity. Sending a man over the coast was beyond their ability, beyond the ocean? Please.

Hence alternate history. Lololololol.

 

[Kane]

Yes, Aztecs didnt even have any ships or ship building capacity. Sending a man over the coast was beyond their ability, beyond the ocean? Please.

That's kinda the assumption that is being made here: "What if the aztecs could build ships?"

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Maybe they stole Zheng He's ships for double alt-history?

 

[oscar]

It's akin to saying "What if the Confederacy had the capacity to manufacture B-52 bombers?"

 

[IDtenT]

It's akin to saying "What if the Confederacy had the capacity to manufacture B-52 bombers?"

Nope. It is not.

Europe of the time had no idea what was going on in the Americas. Why couldn't the Americas have had technological advances earlier than Europe? Hell, the Americas could be a massive cluster of small islands to motivate having hundreds of ships.

 

[oscar]

Because if they had advanced enough technology to cross the Atlantic (something only West Europeans could do at the very end of the game) then they wouldn't resemble the Aztecs we know anymore.

We're presuming that Aztecs somehow jump from stone age to renaissance technology. They would likely resemble the Aztecs we know as much as renaissance Europeans resembled stone age Europeans.

 

[hakuroshi]

So, they've made it for lulz and some quick cash. Trying to find an excuse for them is pointless.

 

[mondblut]

All this "alt histury" crap aside, is there one man in the world who actually likes those stupod "invasions"? Mongols, Timurids, whatever. Wow, a 100k doomstack has spawned on the edge of the map outta nowhere, how exciting!

In my game, Ilkhanate quickly devoured Seljuk and Cuman lands, then stopped there. Then GH arrived on Ilkhanate lands and got annihilated by Ilkhanate without ever gaining any land. The point being...?

 

[Malakal]

I liked invasions, they spiced up the game and provided a challenge for bigger empires. If only they had more AI and goals tho, hate seeing hordes appearing and doing whole load of nothing.

 

[XenomorphII]

It's akin to saying "What if the Confederacy had the capacity to manufacture B-52 bombers?"

Nope. It is not.

Europe of the time had no idea what was going on in the Americas. Why couldn't the Americas have had technological advances earlier than Europe? Hell, the Americas could be a massive cluster of small islands to motivate having hundreds of ships.

Actually it really is just that. Bear in mind that you are talking about setting up and pulling off a successful amphibious invasion of Europe that is based out of Mexico. The nearest similarities for size and scope don't happen until WW2. There is no way anybody had the means to do this or could have had the means to pull it off at that time. Hell even today that sort of undertaking would be a nightmare (loading up several hundred thousand troops, sailing half way around the world, and plopping them down into hostile territory on hostile beaches, with the nearest support base being back home). This is just silliness. Especially in this time period.

Also it is important to bear in mind that the trip to the New World for Europeans for a very long time could take months. Now imagine trying to supply 200 thousand troops for a month at sea, and needing at least some supplies for when you arrive (after all you don't have any idea what is over there or what to expect). Your fleet would have to be absolutely massive to carry the necessary supplies to maintain your troops because going back and forth is not practical. Yes you can live off the land to a degree, but there again, you don't know what is there and sending hundreds of thousands over all at once is an issue. All that is just dealing with actually supplying the army and doesn't even touch on disease, which would be terrible on the boat ride over and on arrival.

It is funny and all, but it isn't to bring a "balance" for the west (basically Pdox is trolling the EU4 folks who have been moaning over how natives need to be not shit in EU4, and Pdox making some easy money on the side.)

TLDR: It is utterly retarded and trying to pass it off as "alt-history" is lame. Sure it might be good for a laugh, but it makes my brain hurt if I try to actually think it out. Will pass on, unless I have extra bluecoins about (because it is would be pretty R00Fles!! lulzy to watch the Aztecs and Mongols conquer Europe).

 

[IDtenT]

It's akin to saying "What if the Confederacy had the capacity to manufacture B-52 bombers?"

Nope. It is not.

Europe of the time had no idea what was going on in the Americas. Why couldn't the Americas have had technological advances earlier than Europe? Hell, the Americas could be a massive cluster of small islands to motivate having hundreds of ships.

Actually it really is just that. Bear in mind that you are talking about setting up and pulling off a successful amphibious invasion of Europe that is based out of Mexico [1]. The nearest similarities for size and scope don't happen until WW2. There is no way anybody had the means to do this or could have had the means to pull it off at that time [2]. Hell even today that sort of undertaking would be a nightmare (loading up several hundred thousand troops, sailing half way around the world, and plopping them down into hostile territory on hostile beaches, with the nearest support base being back home) [1]. This is just silliness. Especially in this time period [2].

Also it is important to bear in mind that the trip to the New World for Europeans for a very long time could take months. Now imagine trying to supply 200 thousand troops for a month at sea, and needing at least some supplies for when you arrive (after all you don't have any idea what is over there or what to expect). Your fleet would have to be absolutely massive to carry the necessary supplies to maintain your troops because going back and forth is not practical [3]. Yes you can live off the land to a degree, but there again, you don't know what is there and sending hundreds of thousands over all at once is an issue [4]. All that is just dealing with actually supplying the army and doesn't even touch on disease, which would be terrible on the boat ride over and on arrival [5].

It is funny and all, but it isn't to bring a "balance" for the west (basically Pdox is trolling the EU4 folks who have been moaning over how natives need to be not shit in EU4, and Pdox making some easy money on the side.)

TLDR: It is utterly retarded and trying to pass it off as "alt-history" is lame. Sure it might be good for a laugh, but it makes my brain hurt if I try to actually think it out. Will pass on, unless I have extra bluecoins about (because it is would be pretty R00Fles!! lulzy to watch the Aztecs and Mongols conquer Europe).

[1] So there is no way they could have colonized Northern America and hopped over Greenland?
[2] At the time is a strictly historical term, not alternative history.
[3] The Americas are big. They could have a massive population, ready to travel over. Logistics is a non-issue.
[4] The one screen-shot makes it explicitly clear that they discover Europe first.
[5] Same issue faced with any voyage. Even then they could have discovered antibiotics already.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'd say the main problem with the Mongorians was that either they never got enough momentum (this was the case in CK1, where Mongorians show up and are promptly roflstomped), or they would have nigh-undefeatable doomstack armies for the rest of the game (how things were in CK2 the last time I played a campaign up to Mongorians arriving).

 

[XenomorphII]

[1] So there is no way they could have colonized Northern America and hopped over Greenland?
[2] At the time is a strictly historical term, not alternative history.
[3] The Americas are big. They could have a massive population, ready to travel over. Logistics is a non-issue.
[4] The one screen-shot makes it explicitly clear that they discover Europe first.
[5] Same issue faced with any voyage. Even then they could have discovered antibiotics already.

1. Based on their equipment unlikely. Running around in naught but light eagle feathers (as per the screenshot) would indicate to me at least that they have not been in particularly cold climates.
2. Fair enough. It still leaves the realm of alt history though once you start assigning too much to someone, when the reality is that they would not have achieved those things due to the way they were (the Aztecs do at least make some sense here because they were quite aggressive).
3. Yes the Americas are big. Logistics are ALWAYS an issue though. It would be an ungodly nightmare to try and ready such a massive invasion force even if they had all the Americas and Greenland as a hoping off point. Also since these are the Aztecs they are probably going to have to be not the Aztecs for any of this to be plausible (ie they cannot be the colossal dicks that they were to everybody around them, which makes them not the Aztecs anymore. Hope that makes sense).
4. Yes, but that still doesn't mean that you know everything about the area and suddenly know that you can eat this and that and were the good areas are (bearing in mind you don't even recognize some of the foods). There will still be problems that arise from entering into what is largely unknown territory for you when it is heavily populated (yes I know they get the super disease to help them but that is pretty dumb too) and hostile.
5. Same issues yes, but as you scale upward it gets much more difficult to deal with. They could have already discovered the steam engine too! Hell they could have a nuclear navy! The possibilities are endless!

Like I said, I don't mind this DLC. I will probably pass on it. But it is utterly ridiculous to claim any sort of seriousness in this. Also I cannot emphasize this enough: You are grossly underestimating the role of logistics here and the absolute cluster-fuck nightmarish horror that executing something like this would entail.

 

[Cassidy]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...6-Crusader-Kings-II-Sunset-Invasion-Announced

Oh ffs.

The idea behind this one reminds me of...

Mothership Zeta.

 

[IDtenT]

They could have already discovered the steam engine too! Hell they could have a nuclear navy! The possibilities are endless!

I'd just like to point out that there is evidence of tribal societies having discovered antibiotics.

 

[XenomorphII]

They could have already discovered the steam engine too! Hell they could have a nuclear navy! The possibilities are endless!

I'd just like to point out that there is evidence of tribal societies having discovered antibiotics.

Did not know that, but I was mostly just being a dick there anyway. Antibiotics would help the situation, but it isn't going to make disease a non-issue (see today).

 

[newcomer]

So tl;dr, I'm not buying this shit DLC. No matter how much I tried to fit this as an alt. history, my retarded brain still thinks that this is retarded.