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Classic or Oddity

Which XP system do you preffer?


  • Total voters
    108

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,087
The question is simple: Which XP system do you preffer to use when playing Underrail?

https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Oddity_XP_System#Oddity_items

The main purpose of this system is to allow players to level at a similar rate regardless of what their build and play-style is. Going through the world stealthily, guns blazing (or in some cases diplomatically) or anything in between should now earn you similar amount of experience.

These items are scattered throughout Underrail, mostly at points of interest. Some of them are gained by killing critters and other specific types of enemies, but since each oddity item can be studied a limited number of times, you can only farm XP from a single creature type to a certain point.

Also, there are generally more instances of an oddity item type placed than you need, so you don't have to have 100% exploration score to get them all. Though, some of them will be unique and only awarded for discovering special areas or defeating bosses.

They can also be found when playing with Classic XP System, but do not have as big of a role in leveling process there. Compared to Oddity XP System, they award 75 times more experience in Classic XP System, where other experience gains are also much larger.
 
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Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,043
Oddity could use some tweaks (Do you really need to look through every pile if trash?) but is overall superior to Classic
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
I prefer the slower pace of oddity leveling (but not the slower gameplay), and I do think it could be a better system, but I don't understand why so many people like it. Every one here is voting for oddity but no one is saying why.

I've played through the Junkyard a few dozen times, I really don't need to kill all the mutant hounds yet again. But in oddity mode, with leveling already slowed down, it is too slow to not clear most of Depot A. If you do all the Junkyard and SGS quests up through finding the drill parts, you get 20 oddity experience from quests, which gets you a bit into level 3. The player will be woefully under leveled for Core City if they aren't actively seeking out oddities found as loot.

Now, giving the player yet another reason to explore isn't a bad thing, but how many oddities actually involve fun gameplay to acquire? On the other hand, how many are obtained by simply looting a random container or killing the same enemy over and over until it drops the oddity you want? The majority of oddities are acquired in unmemorable ways.

For me, the bottom line is that oddity mode requires me to spend even more of my time on the game, but not in any meaningful way. At this point, when I start a new playthough, it's for something specific in mind and not to farm pigs or cave hoppers. That said, I will admit that stealthy playthroughs can feel more rewarding in oddity mode, since there are various oddities which can only be acquired through theft or by trespassing into a guarded area.

I would prefer the oddity system if there were far fewer oddities, but they were more sensibly located (i.e. not in random barrels), more challenging to reach, and gave more experience to make up for the reduced number (the general pace of leveling can stay the same, though).
 
Last edited:

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,817
Im surprised with the amount of people preferring Classic, expected Oddity to dominate the poll.
 
Joined
May 7, 2021
Messages
206
Im surprised with the amount of people preferring Classic, expected Oddity to dominate the poll.
rpgcodex is permanently stuck in cryosleep circa 2003 hunched over an e-machine with an IBM monitor eating tendies, so naturally, it's to be expected that they wanna get exp from sick gamer kills they grinded forever
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Messages
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Every one here is voting for oddity but no one is saying why.
There are a lot of reasons, but "It's the XP system that Styg intended" is certainly a major justification. At some point, Styg claimed that Classic was only meant as a placeholder until he got around to implementing Oddity, which was supposedly the system he'd always intended.

He also stated that he'd always intended to nerf psi, but I don't believe that, either. Years after the fact, he nerfed the overall psi system in order to make room for his new pet psi school that remains hilariously overpowered to this day. A small fraction of TM powers and feats form the cornerstone of an entire genre of min-maxed builds, and they're shoehorned into said builds even if the character is clearly not otherwise psi-oriented.

I don't know why he insists on retconning. "Fuck you, I do what I want" is more than sufficient. In my view, an idea he enjoys pops into his head, and like George Lucas before him he wants to wave a wand and magic that idea into his IP as though it always was.

Anyway, I prefer Classic. I've completed several Oddity playthroughs (all pre-Expedition), and it encourages:

  • planning your entire route through the game with maximization of Oddity XP in mind
  • investing in certain skills (usually to an exact min-maxed value) for the purpose of gaining additional Oddities
  • turning over every rock and checking every pocket
  • literally farming certain enemies until they drop their Oddity

All of these are metagaming. Oddity enthusiasts for some reason think that Oddity is more prestigious than Classic, but it isn't. When playing Classic, you don't have to think about XP at all, don't have to metagame or deliberately engage in certain activities solely for the purpose of leveling up faster.

Thanks for attending my TED Talk, and remember: The Underrail megathread is mine, Oddity lovers. I essentially own all of your posts in that thread.
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
oddity would benefit from randomization but it would make meta-fags(who make up a majority of the people that still play the boomer game) seethe with rage because they can't spend hours thinking about how they'll optimally play the game just to never play it
 

cretin

Arcane
Douchebag!
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
1,369
In theory I prefer oddity just because classic xp systems punish players for not engaging in all the trash combat. I haven't played it enough to have a strong opinion, but on paper at least I prefer the way oddity sounds, so I can do stuff like sneak past trash mob enemies without worrying that I'm missing out on XP.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Oddity only. I do agree with the criticism that too much of them is in trash containers. I would have preferred more involved methods via exploration or killing difficult targets. Even some randomization would be welcome. Also make them drop 100% from critters or at least make it a high percentage. There is nothing more grating than going through the game and having found almost none despite having murderized several dozen. You cannot tell me that after killing 30 Rathounds that only 1 had an actual ear.

Every one here is voting for oddity but no one is saying why.
There are a lot of reasons, but "It's the XP system that Styg intended" is certainly a major justification. At some point, Styg claimed that Classic was only meant as a placeholder until he got around to implementing Oddity, which was supposedly the system he'd always intended.

He also stated that he'd always intended to nerf psi, but I don't believe that, either. Years after the fact, he nerfed the overall psi system in order to make room for his new pet psi school that remains hilariously overpowered to this day. A small fraction of TM powers and feats form the cornerstone of an entire genre of min-maxed builds, and they're are shoehorned into said builds even if the character is clearly not otherwise psi-oriented.

I don't know why he insists on retconning. "Fuck you, I do what I want" is more than sufficient. In my view, an idea he enjoys pops into his head, and like George Lucas before him he wants to wave a wand and magic that idea into his IP as though it always was.

Anyway, I prefer Classic. I've completed several Oddity playthroughs (all pre-Expedition), and it encourages:

  • planning your entire route through the game with maximization of Oddity XP in mind
  • investing in certain skills (usually to an exact min-maxed value) for the purpose of gaining additional Oddities
  • turning over every rock and checking every pocket
  • literally farming certain enemies until they drop their Oddity

All of these are metagaming. Classic enthusiasts for some reason think that Oddity is more prestigious than Classic, but it isn't. When playing Classic, you don't have to think about XP at all, don't have to metagame or deliberately engage in certain activities solely for the purpose of leveling up faster.

Thanks for attending my TED Talk, and remember: The Underrail megathread is mine, Oddity lovers. I essentially own all of your posts in that thread.
Classic is brainless. You literally have to put in no thought just kill whatever moves no problem. Classic also punishes stealth playthroughs where you avoid the majority of the encounters or at least as many as you can. Furthermore you are leveling a lot faster, Classic can reach level 12+ when you are done with Depot A. Oddity might at best be 10, and that is if you were lucky with drops from critters.
As to metagaming, ever taken a good look at Deathstalkers? Everybody and their grandmother metagames the shit out of them. Ever tried to just be surprised by them especially with a low level character with absolutely no prep whatsoever? And you complain about "metagaming" when it comes to Oddity? What a joke.
 
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Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
In theory I prefer oddity just because classic xp systems punish players for not engaging in all the trash combat. I haven't played it enough to have a strong opinion, but on paper at least I prefer the way oddity sounds, so I can do stuff like sneak past trash mob enemies without worrying that I'm missing out on XP.

It would seem that way, except quest experience is much higher in classic mode. Quest EXP up through finding the drill parts gets you to level 6 in classic mode and level 3 in oddity mode. Ignoring trash mobs is more punished in oddity mode, since you're already working with an experience deficit, and there's a bunch of oddities that are only obtained by killing enemies. If oddity mode actually saved the player time or opened up more styles of play, I would prefer it too, but it just doesn't do that in my experience.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
588
I used to be aggressively anti classic but I've chilled out over time and don't really care any more. Except I still think oddity is better.
One thing that's dumb is that higher difficulties spawn more+harder enemies so you get way more experience on classic and level faster. That's dumb. Oddity also has some problems there (burrower warriors spawn way earlier for an obvious example) but it's not as bad.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,087
In theory I prefer oddity just because classic xp systems punish players for not engaging in all the trash combat. I haven't played it enough to have a strong opinion, but on paper at least I prefer the way oddity sounds, so I can do stuff like sneak past trash mob enemies without worrying that I'm missing out on XP.
It would seem that way, except quest experience is much higher in classic mode. Quest EXP up through finding the drill parts gets you to level 6 in classic mode and level 3 in oddity mode.

Players don't like to leave XP on the table but doing trash encounters is not fun.

Ignoring trash mobs is more punished in oddity mode, since you're already working with an experience deficit, and there's a bunch of oddities that are only obtained by killing enemies.

Not true. Ignoring trash mobs is a blessing.

If oddity mode actually saved the player time or opened up more styles of play, I would prefer it too, but it just doesn't do that in my experience.

Classic encourages mostly combat orientated builds and mindless grinding while in addition Oddity encourages exploration and alternative builds (stealth, hacking, pickpocketing, lockpicking) while being less exploitable and less grindy.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,087
Anyway, I prefer Classic. I've completed several Oddity playthroughs (all pre-Expedition), and it encourages:

  • planning your entire route through the game with maximization of Oddity XP in mind
  • investing in certain skills (usually to an exact min-maxed value) for the purpose of gaining additional Oddities
  • turning over every rock and checking every pocket
  • literally farming certain enemies until they drop their Oddity

Compared to Classic which encourages:
[*]planning your entire route through the game with maximization of XP in mind
[*]investing in certain skills (usually to an exact min-maxed value) for the purpose of gaining XP from skills usage
[*]kill everything that moves
[*]literally farming enemies

You are correct. Classic is so much better. /sarcasm
 

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