Community Codex GOTY 2015 - Results

[LeStryfe79]

I signed up immediately after having six threads I had created get closed on Enworld. I'm pretty sure I gave those people over $500 too but they have no sense of humor. Keep in mind that most of those threads involved my being critical of 4ed DnD.

 

[hell bovine]

AoD fans really start to approach Biowhores level of fanatical dedication. As if it's hard to understand that a game with more orthodox gameplay will be at an advantage over an experimental stuff when it comes to counting averages. I liked AoD, but I understand why someone simply not enjoy it, not because he is a retard with ADHD, but because he doesn't like slow single-character combat and visual novels.

Yeah, it's starting to resemble a circle jerk of grumpy old men, with all this moaning about how it should have won. The results between AoD and UR are pretty close anyway, compared to the third place.

 

[Desur]

That's not what is changing the results. As I said from the start, the "n" of the Bayesian formula is the number of votes that the half most voted game has.

In the overall ranking you have 108 games, the #54 most voted game has 31 votes, so that's the "n" I use. In the Tacticool category we only have 20 games and the 10th most voted has 59 votes, so that's the "n" when calculating that category.

I really appreciate your effort and by no means do I claim the results are rigged or anything like that, I just wanted to point out that the 'Overall Results' tab is somewhat misleading (in the end it matters little, I guess, seeing how the most important games stayed where they were).

 

[felipepepe]

Is not misleading - it has all game competing freely, so you know that Invisible Inc was #1 in its category and #5 when ranked with all other games.

 

[toro]

That's not what is changing the results. As I said from the start, the "n" of the Bayesian formula is the number of votes that the half most voted game has.

In the overall ranking you have 108 games, the #54 most voted game has 31 votes, so that's the "n" I use. In the Tacticool category we only have 20 games and the 10th most voted has 59 votes, so that's the "n" when calculating that category.

I really appreciate your effort and by no means do I claim the results are rigged or anything like that, I just wanted to point out that the 'Overall Results' tab is somewhat misleading (in the end it matters little, I guess, seeing how the most important games stayed where they were).

The result were not rigged but there are two things:

1) You have to understand that the bayesian average is producing an estimation. There is no way to get one final result.

2) If you really want to find out which is better between AoD and Underrail then you have to run the algorithm with m = (votes for AoD + votes for Underrail) / 2

This basically will produce the best estimation for these two games.

So now all the AoD faggots have a quest. Run the algorithm for m = 446 votes and pray that AoD has a better score.

 

[Mortmal]

DarkUnderlord , remember the day you spawned in shoutbox and forced me to sign a faustian and unfair pact with my own blood ? Betting all of my brofists , over the fact either Underrail or AOD would win the poll.So i bet and i was right, thus according your own terms i should have ten times more of them on my account !

 

[toro]

That's not what is changing the results. As I said from the start, the "n" of the Bayesian formula is the number of votes that the half most voted game has.

In the overall ranking you have 108 games, the #54 most voted game has 31 votes, so that's the "n" I use. In the Tacticool category we only have 20 games and the 10th most voted has 59 votes, so that's the "n" when calculating that category.

I'm not sure if you used my input or not but THANK GOD!!! for the changes.

Maybe next time you will not kill my neurons and waste my time ... just maybe.

Anyway, good job. Solid results. See you next year.

 

[Desur]

Is not misleading - it has all game competing freely, so you know that Invisible Inc was #1 in its category and #5 when ranked with all other games.

It is misleading because the poll was divided into three categories and so comparing all of the games with each other changes the results, compare 'The Fall of Dungeon Guardians'(16th in GOTY, 29th overall) and 'Fairytales: Three Heroes' (17th in GOTY, 26th overall, a game with 100% 1s awarded btw.) for instance.

You have to understand that the bayesian average is producing an estimation. There is no way to get one final result.

I get that, but I still think trying to compare all of the games is pointless as they were divided into separate categories - say you give one of the tacticool games a 5 because it was (in your opinion) the best tactical game of 2015 yet would rate it lower than most of the games in the GOTY category if they were bundled together. Especially since, strictly speaking, one should only award one '5' per category (it clearly said GOTY) which would put some games at a disadvantage. I'm sure you understand my point so let us stop arguing over it and just enjoy the results.

 

[Irenaeus III]

No one should compare games from different categories unless they are retards. For instance, I gave Chaos Chronicles a 4 because it was competing with other tactical games. If I knew people would compare it to RPGs, I'd give it a 1, since it's not a RPG.

Is this really hard? Fucking idiots.

 

[Excidium II]

Chaos Chronicles?

 

[Irenaeus III]

Chaos Chronicles?

Fuck. I meant this:

Chaos Reborn.

Fucking Chaos

 

[Turjan]

Someone should give Underrail a big banner and a crown and place it on the front page. Compared to the D:OS vs. WL2 wars, the butthurt in this thread is decidedly lame.

Regarding PoE, even the protests are lukewarm, so all's well.

 

[laclongquan]

I gotta say, particularly compared to lasts years award, there seems to be much less love put into this years GOTYs. No cool banner, no cool award banners, no write ups, no golden turd, no most anticipated, no editor's choice (no sticky). Makes them feel way less prestigious. A bit dissappointing to be honest.

It's the newness of the thing. Now is when we have experienced at least three major polls full of drama and argument. The fire has gone a bit.

Also I blame the poll inflation of 2016. 10 kind of polls in the span of a month?

 

[an Administrator]

Am i the only one here who thinks PoE is a bit... underrated by the Codex?

 

[hivemind]

No.
There is an equally white poster here who has the same opinion as you Irenaeus III

 

[Ulminati]

Am i the only one here who thinks PoE is a bit... underrated by the Codex?

It was massively overrated until late beta/release. Then people who got burned by blind trust in Obsidian lashed out at it in frustration. In reality it is a decidedly mediocre game deserving of a lukewarm reaction. The sole mark of distinction it has is how bland and soulless both the world and the writing feels. Bad and repetitive combat is the only thing that gives it away as an Obsidian product.

 

[Irenaeus III]

It's a great game. I voted 5 because that's what it deserves.

 

[ArchAngel]

Am i the only one here who thinks PoE is a bit... underrated by the Codex?

It was massively overrated until late beta/release. Then people who got burned by blind trust in Obsidian lashed out at it in frustration. In reality it is a decidedly mediocre game deserving of a lukewarm reaction. The sole mark of distinction it has is how bland and soulless both the world and the writing feels. Bad and repetitive combat is the only thing that gives it away as an Obsidian product.

And soon it might be forgotten when an expansions for a 18 year old game PoE was inspired by beats it in most relevant categories. It will hurt even more because that game is done by bunch of nobodies and modders (well nobodies compared to "prestigious" Obsidian).

 

[Reapa]

DS2:SOTF is voted as shit, obviously because people here don't like controllers and action games (which is their loss). But then they vote Twitcher as goty? Potato propaganda, nothing more. As far as action games go, it sucked huge ass. As far as RPGs, meh. People just vote for game from their country and it skewed the results heavily. It's like fucking Eurovision over here.

this +100! the game is a fucking mess. the witcher cannot wield swords that are too... heavy? sharp until he grows up enough to know he's not supposed to cut himself with them?
what the fuck is the point of level requirements on equipment you find? balance in a fucking single player story aRPG??? this is one of the diseases DA:I is suffering from. not to mention that the game is a fucking aRPG and aRPGs are not RPGs.

Codex is 14 years old, so if you registered in 2009 you've been here for half the show. Seems reasonable to me.

But here's the 2007 cut year for ya (103 in total):

1. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt 4,22
2. Underrail 4,22
3. Age of Decadence 4,08
4. Invisible, Inc. 3,92
5. Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Editon 3,91
6. Chaos Reborn 3,81
7. Fallen: A2P Protocol 3,74
8. Shadowrun: Hong Kong 3,72
9. Telepath Tactics 3,66
10. Serpent in the Staglands 3,61

Gotta love that potato... and Fallen A2P, really? What, you guys thought the box art was Fallout-like?

it seems the old fags went senile. pretty flowers *-* GOTY!!!!

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

EVERYTHING is super slow in Underrail. Only after recent big patch you have the option to increase combat speed without using the cheatengine but you're still walking at a turtle pace - AoD doesn't waste your time like that. It also doesn't waste your time by forcing you to fight trashmobs (which often respawn at that). And fighting rats takes a lot of time at first and later even though you can one shot them the sheer number of them makes it a tedious task (hence cheatengine and sneaking are essential to enjoy this game). Eyestabber has shown AoD's superiority by making this video and doing something superb (i.e. did a full ironman playthrough with ALL optional, hardest fights when many players can't even get through the easiest ones):

Blah, this is bullshit. Dealing with trashmobs takes 30 seconds or something (start combat, throw fireball, end combat). Speed slider is optional in that's why it wasn't in. On the other hand it was necessary in AoD because even fighting a single assassin at the beginning of the game takes forever, even if you know what you're doing. The only real problem is having to walk a lot. And yeah one guy liking AoD combat a lot has clearly shown that it's not polarizing and doesn't put people away. The only controversial thing about UR is lack of map and slow walking speed, something most people can stomach. In AoD there's polarizing slow combat and poralizing visulal novel part. Which makes the game fare worse than in would than in a straight-up choose one favorite game and fuck off content.

That's because AoD is objectively better than UR, i.e. Fallout 1 in sewers with MMO elements. There is a reason why AoD is first in every poll:

[links]

In polls like these UR fanboys were downvoting AoD to skew the results and they've succeeded. If all the 1s were changed to 2s for both UR and AoD, AoD would have won (none of these games deserve a 1 unless you're not into RPGs but then why would you be here?).

I'm sorry but that garbage you are writing is extreme and utter bullshit. Yeah some people didn't like AoD, probably because if you like combat to go somewhat fast and dislike VNs there is literally nothing in the game to enjoy for you. UR at least have standard RPG exploration, interesting crafting and character advancement with more than putting skills into persuation/streetwise/lore/crafting or your favourite weapon/your favourite blocking technique. I've just checked results and if we did what you suggested but only for people who rated one game one and another five UR still comes out on top, by 4,23 vs 4,22. AoD didn't loose because of legions of insane UR fanboys that exist only in your imagination, but because it's an experimental game which automatically means that some people will simply hate it.
You trying to find conspiracies to explain why the game came-in second is the best proof that AoD fanboys are more fanatical than UR fanboys. Your game lost one GOTY, get over it for fucks sake.

 

[Bubbles]

UR at least have standard RPG exploration

AoD also has a healthy amount of exploration.

 

[hell bovine]

UR at least have standard RPG exploration

AoD also has a healthy amount of exploration.

How much of that exploration is locked behind skill checks, though? There was a point where the entire "load an earlier save, re-distribute skill points" shtick got old, and I simply wasn't interested in exploring new areas anymore.

 

[felipepepe]

Since the results were so interesting, I've wrote a small article on the poll: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/FelipePe...mbers_and_message_behind_a_good_GOTY_poll.php

Spoiler

GOTY lists are a perfect blend of click-baity "Top X" list with actual informative content that help a lot of people decide what they will play next, while also rewarding devs for their noteworthy efforts.

These usually come in two varieties - Editor's / Jury's Choice and popular vote. But, unfortunately, most popular vote polls are very poorly done, for a few reasons:

1 - They present limited choices, so often you can't even vote for your actual GOTY.
2- To tie-in with holiday sales, they run on late November / early December, when there are still games coming out (Just Cause 3, Rainbow Six: Siege, etc) and people haven't played them all.
3 - They are simplistic popularity polls, that don't tell you much besides which game most people liked - sometimes without even giving you a % results or a full ranking.
4 - Usually only the Top 3 games are shown, the rest of the data is entirely discarded.

Instead of just complaining, I've decided to do better.

So for two years now I've been handling the RPG Codex's GOTY polls, with a specific methodology: we list almost every RPG released, ask voters to rank them 1 (shit) to 5 (great), and then calculate the ranking using a Bayesian average - so that excellent games that few people played can compete against the popular AAAs.

And we publish the full results & poll data. Because everyone knows and likely played the Top 3 games, so deciding that one is 2% better than the other is pointless fanboyism / marketing - the real, useful question underneath it is "what else should I play? what have I missed?"

So here's the results of our 2015 GOTY voting, which listed 107 RPGs and was voted by 742 users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nzVGja37jNVhItqkpFShcGPfPJ8q4jI5WXAOTtndCBg/edit?usp=sharing

It's an extensive, fully sortable google docs sheet, divided into three categories - Best RPG, Best "Tacticool" game and Best Remaster/Port/Translation - plus an overall listing.

I'd like to provide an example of how interesting this data can be.

Take Hard West - a tactical XCOM-like game set in a fantasy version of the Old West. From a quick look, it's at #10 in the "Tacticool" category, so one would say it didn't do very well...

However, it was the second most voted game, only 6 votes bellow Invisible Inc., meaning that a lot of people took interest in it. And 49% of voters thought it was a good game, rating it 4/5 or 5/5!
So what happened? Let's look at the graph:

A lot of people thought the game was good, but very few thought it was great, that's what happened.

For comparison, here's some very different graphs from other games in the same "Tacticool" category -Invisible Inc. was #1, Satellite Reign was #12, Blackguards 2 was # 17 and HOMM VII was #19:

Invisible Inc. won in its category, but it still had more people thinking it was good, not great - a sharp contrast with Underrail, Age of Decadence and Witcher 3, where 5/5 was the most popular vote.
Satellite Reign, on the other hand, was clearly considered mediocre-to-good by most.

Moving on to the lower portion of the poll, Blackguards 2 was mediocre-to-bad, with almost no one enjoying it. Quite sad, since Blackguards did well in our 2014 GOTY. Clearly people were disappointed. HOMM VII, however, was undoubtedly HATED. It's not a patch or good expansion that will save it...

That was just a quick look at the data, focused on a single category. There are many other variables one could cross here - number of votes, raw average, standard deviation, positive vs negative votes, etc...that's why the results sheet is fully sortable and included the full raw data from the voting.

While most people will dismiss this as a niche poll with little representation of the mainstream audience (fair enough, we did vote Fallout 4 the second worst RPG), I think it still offers a valuable insight into what +700 fans think of over 100 RPGs release (or re-released) in 2015.

I hope this proves useful, that in the future more websites improve their polling and that it motivates developers like the team behind Hard West. They got very close, all it needs is an extra push to convert the "good" votes into "great".

 

[MrMarbles]

Underrail is better than AoD, and this poll proves it.

Poll proves jackshit, because butthurted UR fanboys downvoted AoD intentionally.

Wanna know which GOTY the Codex as a whole liked more? Sort by the "% enjoyed tab".

1. Age of Decadence - 51%
2. Underrail - 48%
3. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - 38%
4. Pillars of Eternity - 35%
5. Shadowrun: Hong Kong - 23%

Troll voting excluded AoD would have taken the win, congratulations to VD.

 

[Bubbles]

I gotta say, particularly compared to lasts years award, there seems to be much less love put into this years GOTYs. No cool banner, no cool award banners, no write ups, no golden turd, no most anticipated, no editor's choice (no sticky). Makes them feel way less prestigious. A bit dissappointing to be honest.

People want the hard data without any meaningless filler. This year's Gamescom report is going to consist of two simple lists ("Good Games" and "Bad Games") without any further commentary.