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Incline Colony Ship Combat Beta Thread

Discussion in 'Iron Tower Studio' started by conan_edw, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Which fight and which partner? Or any fight as long as you have any partner? If you have a save before this fight, please email it to us or upload somewhere.

    info@irontowerstudio.com
     
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  2. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    I haven't read the whole 32 pages but it seems entirely possible to end up stuck because the vendors don't restock grenades. I'm stuck on the 9th fight with a single companion and since there are only smoke grenades left and they do not hinder the enemy sufficiently, I'm dead no matter what I do. If I could stun the 4 enemies for the first round, I might be able to get a good string of RNG and beat them but as it is, no dice. I have the best armour and best pistol/shotgun combination possible and it makes no difference what I do. It's a bummer - pretty much every other game gives you plenty of items so you end up hoarding them for no reason. In Colony Ship, you better be 100% sure if you want to use any item.

    I assume this is intentional because I seem to recall that Age of Decadence also had a limited amount of consumables available.
     
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  3. AdolfSatan Erudite

    AdolfSatan
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    Sounds like it's time to try a different build; after you get the hang of it you won't even use that many grenades.
     
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  4. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Well, it's the classic poor performance vicious circle that makes everything worse. If you can't keep the henchmen alive, you have to rely on grenades. Eventually run out of both.

    I did do a second build, this time with just rifle skill, and increased charisma and save-scumming to do perfectly in each fight. Having 3 groupies definitely makes a huge difference though it's still all down to RNG since crits are so powerful.
     
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  5. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    It is intentional (we don't want you to spam grenades in every fight) and all resources should be treated as limited. If you upload your save somewhere (or email it to us, whichever's easier), I'll take a look and see if you're really stuck.

    No. Grenades make fights easier but you can go through the demo without them. Some players did and asked for a 'no grenades' feat to get some trade-off.
     
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  6. Fenix Prophet Vatnik

    Fenix
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    Huh, sounds cool.
     
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  7. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    While we're on the topic, what would be an appropriate bonus for a fighter too honorable (for the lack of a better word) to use chemical aid of any kind (grenades *and* stims)? +2 stat points? Something else?
     
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  8. Trash Player Scholar

    Trash Player
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    Non-combat benefits means it will be taken for non-combat builds. Either limit to combat benefits only or attach clauses that discourage so.
     
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  9. No bonuses. Players are fighting with fewer resources on purpose to show off. If they have an advantage because of that it would defeat the purpose. It should be an achievement.
     
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  10. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    VD is asking about a potential feat which trades chem use for something else, not a house rule. Just like the existing Berserker (sic?) feat where you give up aimed attacks for a different attack boost.

    I would love the 'go clean' feat to get some reactivity in dialogue e.g. Church people, but perhaps that's too much work at this point.

    Not sure what would work here - it could involve some kind of LP gain or implants capacity boost to represent the combatant not distracted or compromised by chemical influences? But seems tricky to balance relative to existing feats.
     
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  11. Technomancer Learned

    Technomancer
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    Meh, I don't like this idea at all. Chems and gadgets are major parts of gameplay balance, the reliance on them also adds to the grim, realistic feel of the setting. If you don't want to use them ok, you can brag. But this should not be rewarded or encouraged in the actual game. How that could be explained to not be ridiculous anyway? You are some kind of monk on a space ship living in the slums, devoted to perfect your combat ability without using any boosters? Or what, fake drug poisoned you once and got you scarred for life?

    Its too bad Overclocked feat got cut for good, that is more interesting and harder to balance idea by far.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  12. Nortar Savant Patron

    Nortar
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I think that it could be best related to charisma.
    Maybe "purity of body" gives them a sense of moral superiority (and healthier skin!) over druggies and chem-addicts who pollute themselves.
    Besides, if a character does not boost up his own performance, he probably has to relay more on companions to do the job done.
    And if the whole group is restricted from using chems/stims and the main character has the "cult leader" trait, it could be a thematically appropriate challenge for a neo-vegan-like sect deserving something like a couple of unique dialog lines.
     
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  13. Fenix Prophet Vatnik

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    Maybe thay just don't want to ruin The Ship more then it already is.
    Ship Caretaker - gives some additional knowledge about ship?
    Maybe + to some science skills? Biotech? Maybe knowledge of ship - the map, layout?
     
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  14. Binky Arbiter

    Binky
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    Such a fighter is strong enough to not need them. Or it keeps him on his toes.

    Possible feat names:
    Alert/Vigilant/Quick Thinker/Think Fast/Survival Instinct
    Possible bonuses:
    I'd go for reaction, evasion, initiative. Though one could also argue for just about anything (action points, learning points, stats, resistances,...).

    How would this feat actually work, though? Kinda like Lone Wolf? Just instead you lose bonuses if you do... what? Use a grenade? Sounds pretty silly.

    I'm against having such a feat myself. Grenades, stims, gadgets, implants will be vital for hybrids. If you can't beat a fight with a combat build without relying on crutches all the time, how will you beat it with a hybrid? Or when you run out of grenades? Or when your precious toy (the distortion field) gets disabled?
     
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  15. GarfunkeL Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    I'm sure you can if you're willing to keep trying each fight until you succeed. I finally passed the 9nth fight with my second character. Even with all 3 henchmen all kitted out, it took about a dozen tries.

    In that vein, could you allow saving in combat? It's really annoying to have a really good fight and then have to reload on turn 4 because a lucky crit from a sniper rifle took out the protagonist in 1 hit. Yes, I had the combat helmet on. The RNG is extremely punishing as it is since it's a "real" RNG and not seeded.

    Except, and since obviously I don't have a statistically viable sample at hand this could just be confirmation bias, have you implemented some sort of revenge modifier to the RNG? Because it seems to me that if I do really well in a turn, the next time enemies act they score really lucky criticals as well. Whereas if I do poor-average, they also seem to do poor-average.

    Also, there seems to be a small bug with looting corpses. Quite often but not every time, my character stops 1 tile away from the corpse and I get the message "cannot reach". Then when I click the corpse a 2nd time, my character moves that last tile and loots successfully. Not a major issue, just a little annoying.
     
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  16. Trash Player Scholar

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    Most of the time, crits done by non-reaction shots aren't really outlier. Attacks like headshot or doubleshot have ~15% crit rate. Skills and items can add up 10 more on enemy fighters. Your specialized ones can add another 15.
    Only way at the meantime is not getting hit or get Tough Bastard feat, which limits to 5% max.
     
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  17. jackofshadows Scholar

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    This. While I LOVE the idea of the implants downside (because it makes sense), rewarding for not using chems and/or grenades is dangerously crawling into anime territory. Also such a trait/perk would be counterintuitive for a new players.
     
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  18. And I argued it was a bad idea and explained why it should be an achievement instead.
     
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  19. Darth Canoli Magister

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    The reward is already there, you don't have to buy them so you're saving cash for something else and you can sell the ones you loot, anything else would defeat the purpose, besides, most grenades aren't that useful to begin with.

    Or maybe a feat to increase resistance to grenade effects (+25% to both resistances) and making all the in-game grenades disappear (no more looting grenades nor buying them)
     
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  20. True. And even then players would have to spend a feat point on this choice. It seems like a bad trade-off.
     
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  21. Black Angel Arcane

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    ^I'd put my vote on this. No feat, but benefit non-combat situation, or even like what Tigranes mentioned could be something related to reputation with certain faction/NPCs.

    Or maybe give such players an opportunity in form of exclusive quest(s)? Let me borrow a certain scenario from Underrail: Expedition, for example.
    Show Spoiler
    At one point you need to gain access to a security HQ, but the security system is much more tight and still working. If you're 'clean', you can get in with no problem. But if you're not, which happened if you didn't perform a procedure on a severed limb to harvest an implant and put it into your own already established system, you're forced to get rid *all* your items and had to find go around to retrieve them.

    Maybe something along those lines? Like, the questgiver is aware of your 'clean' reputation and either agree with your ideal or is using you for their own gain. And because your system is 'clean' of stims, the place you're sent to would let you in with little to no hassle, whereas even slightest hint of chems would deny you access into such place.
     
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  22. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    Wondering what makes chems so special. There are many feats in many games that lock you out of something to grant bonuses on the other leg you have to lean on. CSG already has Berserker, as I said, which rules out aimed attacks. Doing shit for bragging rights is stuff players can do outside of the game rules.

    That said, yes, I do think any no-chem play is better suited to providing non-combat bonuses / reactivity rather than CLEAN MAN POWERS.

    A bit of a separate point, but I've actually been surprised by the number of players that say they rely on chems or that chems are indispensable to get through tough fights. They are meant to be an emergency crutch for when you fucked up or when your build is weak - but that means it can encourage players to rely on them until they run out and get stuck. I wonder how to mitigate that design-wise.
     
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  23. Fenix Prophet Vatnik

    Fenix
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    Tell players straight to the face - these ones are rare like virgins, don't inject, don't rub into the gums, don't sniff unless you really have to.
     
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  24. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    We got quite a few of such complaints from players who use chems and grenades in every fight, then run out and think the design is bad/broken because they can't buy more. I sense a lot of negative reviews upon release.
     
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  25. Fenix Prophet Vatnik

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    Just state it very clearly and straight for such dumbasses - consumables are gold.
    No, bullets is a gold, and drugs/chems are diamonds.

    Tell it to them verbally, and also indirectly - lets say there will be conflict, where one er... prospector killed another to get his hands on some drug, like single stimulant or something.
     
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