Colony Ship Early Access Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Savecummer]

The good:

• ITS has done away with the only real design flaw of AoD, which was the system that incentivised hoarding of learning points. I'm sure most of us did it at least in their early playthroughts.The current system works perfectly, doing away with the unnecessary metagame. Sure, you go back to locks that you couldn't open before, but that's entirely in the spirit of RPGs. Moreover, sometimes getting the stuff behind locked door early is a massive power up, which rewards specialisation.
  
• The system with tagged skills encourages building hybrid characters, because you can be reasonably confident that you're not overstretching. This is balanced by using the learning-by-doing system, which means that you cannot be good at everything. Same thing with party size, since you effectively draw exp from the same limited pool. I believe CHA builds with full party are going be the strongest based on my experience, but I assume that late game you'll really miss those extra levels. Numerous builds are viable, but they all have their liabilities.
  
• The economy works brilliantly. You really have to plan what to buy, and a single expensive consumable can make an impossible fight winnable. Different parties benefit from different gear, so you'll always have to think strategically with your investments.

y r morans like this allowed to post when literally everything said is wrong?
aods fail is not the xp hoarding, its the predetermined paths and teleporting around, robbing the player of control.
the current system is broken and encourages and rewards even more degenerate metagame beyond just running around with an xp reserve...
tagged skills by fucking definition dont encourage building hybrids, they are literally is specialization
how LBD means that you cannot be good at everything when its literally the opposite is beyond comprehension
full party size xp sharing is barely strong enough to rob you of 1 feat at level 10...
the economy is trivial, you gotta be a retard to have to plan what ot fucking buy......................... what different parties? jesus christ
---> steamtardia is that way

 

[Savecummer]

hory shit, mercy's dialogue lies to the player... from braxtons side has literally a trap 2 streetwise check that drops dispo on passing because its not logical...(logical inside the game world relationships) but the ui is of course displaying it in green cause you are very streetwise...

this shit is like combining the worst aspects from both worlds:
- aod's hardfails only on cumulative dispo check
- and bioware/fallout1 guessing games
- and now with new and improved white green lies!

 

[Jrpgfan]

Do you get an equivalent to Braxton's semi-auto rifle if you side with him? I'm on my second run. I always do sniper first runs and on the second I usually try to improve on the first one. I'm tempted to go Braxton this time but I want Braxton's rifle.

 

[Pink Eye]

Nope. You do get a cool pistol from killing Jonas and his gang. The Ranger - it's a revolver.

 

[Jrpgfan]

I guess I'll leave it for my third run then.

 

[Vault Dweller]

y r morans like this allowed to post when literally everything said is wrong?
aods fail is not the xp hoarding, its the predetermined paths and teleporting around, robbing the player of control.
the current system is broken and encourages and rewards even more degenerate metagame beyond just running around with an xp reserve...
tagged skills by fucking definition dont encourage building hybrids, they are literally is specialization
how LBD means that you cannot be good at everything when its literally the opposite is beyond comprehension
full party size xp sharing is barely strong enough to rob you of 1 feat at level 10...
the economy is trivial, you gotta be a retard to have to plan what ot fucking buy......................... what different parties? jesus christ
---> steamtardia is that way

You seem to be very upset about a vidya game.

 

[razvedchiki]

well some folk actually like "metagaming", having to calculate my moves for maximum skillpointσ in teron was fun.

 

[Vault Dweller]

well some folk actually like "metagaming", having to calculate my moves for maximum skillpoint in teron was fun.

You can still metagame all you want, trying to gain max learning points.

 

[Binky]

Osiginon Good job on the music.

 

[MRY]

That's one area where we're definitely seeking feedback on the right balance between party members driving you nuts with their banter and being zombies. ...
Planning to add by the end of the month:

- conversations on the first arrival to a new location
- discussion about the machine when you first see it

I think the problem with these proposed new dialogues is that I'm not sure what these characters would have to say on such topics that would be interesting. The characters currently present as reasonably realistic inhabitants of a reasonable realistic place -- they aren't zealots or archetypes. Typically in an RPG, companions are given extremely exaggerated backgrounds and values to ensure that they have a distinctive perspective on topics. This makes them less realistic, but can make the kinds of dialogues you're discussing more interesting because they can be short but still evocative.

Having beaten Chapter 1, the most I can say about the characters is that Evans seems kind of conservative and timid, Faythe seems kind of idealistic and despondent, and Jed seems bad at paying his debts. But I don't really have a view on what Jed vs. Evans would think about Hydroponics or the Machine, and I'm not particularly interested in hearing their views (despite liking your writing a lot and generally enjoying the story-side of RPGs). In that sense, the followers are very Fallout-ish -- a little bit of personality expressed when you sign them up, and then you just think of them in terms of their utility.

I think if you are going to have Black Isle/Bioware/Obsidian style reaction dialogues be a bigger part of the game, you probably going to need to push the distinctions between the characters more.

 

[MRY]

Sorry, one added point: I took the "more than FO" aspect you were going for here to be that the characters would have some personal quests. That is, these characters might react to scenario X in a different way not because Jed has a clever take on religion, but because Jed once had a run in with these particular enemies or whatever. While I may not care what Jed thinks about the wisdom of genetic engineering, having him say, "Careful, last time I pushed through a bush like that, I found myself face-to-face with six frogs," or whatever is functional and, "We hid our loot under that loss plank" is even more functional.

 

[Goral]

(...) Typically in an RPG, companions are given extremely exaggerated backgrounds and values to ensure that they have a distinctive perspective on topics. This makes them less realistic (...)

I disagree, every person has an opinion so if for example I would see such humongous piece of machinery I would definitely comment on it. Whether it would be interesting is another matter but IMO it would beat them being mindless followers. IMO a good compromise would be if they would stay quiet unless we would ask them what they think about it so that people who don't care wouldn't be bothered by it and people who would prefer some reactivity from their companions would get their fix. Maybe some short, floating text above their heads with a comment could indicate that they have something more to say on the matter.

 

[Jaedar]

• Hydroponics is a very annoying area to navigate through due to constant fade-to-black faux loading screens. AoD did this too, but I assumed it had something to do with the outdated Torque engine. What's the deal here, why is this necessary?

I assume it's to hide the fact that there are no animations for climbing or squeezing etc. But yeah, the fade to black is annoying, especially when it's multiple fade to blacks with nothing interactible in between (or just one interactible and then you have to fade back).

 

[MRY]

(...) Typically in an RPG, companions are given extremely exaggerated backgrounds and values to ensure that they have a distinctive perspective on topics. This makes them less realistic (...)

I disagree, every person has an opinion so if for example I would see such humongous piece of machinery I would definitely comment on it.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What "makes them less realistic" is the "exaggerated backgrounds and values." But those exaggerations are what make the characters' comments on something like the Machine interesting. For sure any normal person entering Hydroponics would have a ton to say, constantly, it's just that such chatter would not be interesting for me to read in a game like CSG. I do tend to enjoy reading short monologues by a religious zealot or a Lysenkoist or whatever and then getting to make a "How do you want to react?"-style choice at the end. The problem is that the CSG characters are not the sort to have that kind of reaction, so whatever they say about Hydroponics or the Machine seem more like background noise.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Finally got around to play this, having lots of fun.

Some comments:
Fantastic work on optimization, I'm running this on a shit rig and it works just fine, loading times are 0. Love the atmosphere and all that, amazing work.

Combat animation slider would be nice. I died after an unlucky crit when I was near done killing Jonas' and I closed the game because the idea of going again through the slog of a fight so long is daunting. On that subject, pretty much every combat I've done so far has been super cool, I loved killing Mercy and her goons, but Jonas' is a particularly boring one.

Thought I had some bugs iwth camera movement and mouse but I just realized you added the options in the menu to fix that, so, great!

I do have this bug when facing Braxton, happens every time as soon as combat begins:

Nick

 

[Savecummer]

You seem to be very upset about a vidya game.

За дурною головою і ногам нема покою!

 

[Savecummer]

I'm not particularly interested in hearing their views

Ooooh, lets shit on CSG writing! Its bad too!

We all know how AOD has no plot, right? ITS learned nothing from it.
CSG has even less plot! At least in AOD you discover aliens down the line.
But what could possibly be the interesting revelation to the Mutiny? Or if the ship is on course? Or if the Machine in the armory is a good thing or not?
I dont care. Target planet is inhabited - who gives a fuck?
Again, there are no antagonists besides the the factions that dont get the Machine.
So you get to the Flight Control and its empty/controlled by robots/controlled by someone.
So the Machine is ruining ship power.
So what?

Theme
The same boring, absolutely uninteresting shit as in AOD - decayed society, power struggle,
mexican standoff between factions for a throne. Natural state of everyone vs everyone.
Coating it with Wild West in SPEEEHSSS does nothing but cause the reader to feel: "thats weird, i dont like it"
All decent books/narratives have an over-arcing theme that is grounded in some part of the human condition, the 'feelings' part.
Its gently emotionally covering all the events in the happenings.
You see, you cant do anything that would make the reader feel something with chaotic grimdark in space, you would have to dial it up to 11
to make grizzly "The Road" from McCarthy for an impact, make a point.
CSG has no theme. "Trapped in a crate in space for life" doesnt work because it is seemingly not a crate! Cause they have water/food/entertainment even.
You can got to the Hydroponics and chill out there... Makes no sense.
What kinda theme could there be?
See in Metro2033 the theme is community. The plot is to escape/rise from the ashes/establish a foothold outside - there is hope.
"Hopelessness" doesnt work for CSG either. Its like Plato's cave of practicalities. Once people know for sure that they are on a ship
and they cant land, they will adapt their horizon and goals to what they can possibly grasp and live life to those goals - hopeful to reach them.
That they are living in a hull doesnt change that teens want to fuck.
CSG has no human theme. Like AOD.

Characters
Narratives are about characters, they are not about plots. No reason to care for a plot if you dont evaluate the character motivations
and compare them to your belief system - do the emotional transfer - pick enemies and friends.
I read the dev update on the Pit factions and how the brax/jonas/mercy is supposed to look like from the "ideas" perspective.
And absolutely NOTHING of it emotionally translated into the game. To me, they were grunt1 grunt2 joker.
It was honestly worse than Fallouts Gizmo/Killian - with the same sad cliches. At least in Fallout I knew whom I wanted to win.
Player char
Btw, where is his mother/his parents? Who raised him?
Also, single char RPGs need an antagonist...
Multi char RPGs need full fledged chars with motivations and reasons to move - they cant be mules and stat bags.
Companions
This was slightly better than the NPCs. Evans and Faythe seem to have conflicting world views. Jed is a trader/merc.
Having avenged the death of parent, whats Faythe motivation to dive? Money?
Having survived Abe's shop, whats Evans motivation to fight very dangerous fights? Money?
Having payed back his debts, whats Jeds motivation to fight very dangerous fights? Money?
Top of the line character writing - even Obshitian is better.
This gayme is not Jagged Alliance.

Setup is all wrong!
The Armory has to be presented and been visited by you beforehand, you the player, having lived 30 years in the Pit, should have seen it, been there - where you find the bunker door but cant dang open! Or anyone else for that matter.
And now the opportunity of a lifetime presents self through Tanner (which itself should be set up! With a quest like
him sending you to take out 2 thugs or something, to prove that you capable and ready to go to the extremes)
Tanner himself should be presented as a friend of sorts, he has no familiarity with the player in the dialogue. Its fairly hostile tone - typical of banal shit boring ITS writing.
Why the hell is he giving you the fucking key? He knows its the right key too! And he sends a single guy into the hostile dungeon wtih the unique key? WTF

Everything is shit! lol

 

[PEACH]

so this is the power of autism

be sure to update everyone when you've played for 1337 hours

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Everything is shit! lol

The critics

 

[Savecummer]

be sure to update everyone when you've played for 1337 hours

the colloquial term is 'over 7 times', newfag shitconsooomer

 

[lukaszek]

for example I would see such humongous piece of machinery I would definitely comment on it

 

[MRY]

I'm not particularly interested in hearing their views

Ooooh, lets shit on CSG writing! Its bad too!

De gustibus, of course, but I want to make clear that's not what I was saying. I think there are things CSG does well in terms of its writing, but setting up followers for philosophical color commentary is not, right now, one one those things.

Some of your specific criticisms I agree with, most I don't. I thought AOD's "narrative"* was very strong, and while I am thus far somewhat less taken by CSG's, I certainly don't think it's bad; I think it is quite good, as I said in my review.

(* I use "narrative" instead of writing because IMO the actual writing in an RPG isn't that important compared to the scenario, the roleplaying opportunities, etc. As I mentioned in the DS:SL thread, that game may not have virtuoso writing, but I love the narrative.)

 

[lukaszek]

Why are they called heroic feats and not traits?
Why traits offer no downside? Don't you feel that they are too strong right now? Especially gifted(that also got no requirements) and mastermind.
Perhaps give gifted requirement like 'at least 6 in each stat' - it would fit it and will no longer be free. Lower skill learning rate or xp bonus.
Make mastermind work for non combat skills only?

Never a fan of no brainer feats and those 2 are.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why are they called heroic feats and not traits?
Why traits offer no downside? Don't you feel that they are too strong right now? Especially gifted(that also got no requirements) and mastermind.
Perhaps give gifted requirement like 'at least 6 in each stat' - it would fit it and will no longer be free. Lower skill learning rate or xp bonus.
Make mastermind work for non combat skills only?

Never a fan of no brainer feats and those 2 are.

Except many other people are convinced that different heroic feats are the no-brainer ones and the ones you picked are garbage. Welcome to the internet.

 

[lukaszek]

Why are they called heroic feats and not traits?
Why traits offer no downside? Don't you feel that they are too strong right now? Especially gifted(that also got no requirements) and mastermind.
Perhaps give gifted requirement like 'at least 6 in each stat' - it would fit it and will no longer be free. Lower skill learning rate or xp bonus.
Make mastermind work for non combat skills only?

Never a fan of no brainer feats and those 2 are.

Except many other people are convinced that different heroic feats are the no-brainer ones and the ones you picked are garbage. Welcome to the internet.

those people are wrong and probably pass time by throwing dice