RTS Command & Conquer Remastered Collection from Petroglyph

[cvv]

I want 1999 game developers

haha vegan blue-hair gen Z go brrrrr

 

[Alienman]

I don't know if stuff like that is actual genius design due to smart developers or accidental genius design due to engine limitations.

Engine/hardware limitations is my go-to nowadays.

 

[Storyfag]

In my 'sperging about TS' level design being so damn good, I forgot to mention one particular impressive game design achievement nobody copied, mission design with slight "branching" (seperate from the "connected optional mission done" boolean flag) and having mission objectives evolve depending on how you perform (if you are fast/sneaky enough etc.).

Take the "retrieve the tacitus" mission with the train in the Nod campaign that has a soft timer allowing you to grab it before Vega or having to steal it from his base if you are too slow. Or the mission with the disruptor crystals in the GDI campaign has the same thing. Or the "failstates" in the mission where you need to capture Jake McNeil, or that one where you free Slavik and zoom around with the subterrenean APC.

Nobody even tried to do the same ever again AFAIK. I want 1999 game developers, as they were back then not that into which they aged, back.

I'm bretty sure some TibWars missions work like that.

 

[Hellraiser]

I don't know if stuff like that is actual genius design due to smart developers or accidental genius design due to engine limitations.

Definitely deliberate, it's all scripted rather than emergent from the engines features/limitations as such.

Apart from akhem two of those missions (rescue Slavik and capture McNeil) being unwinnable if certain timers run out/objectives run away and you not getting a "mission failed" state telling you that. But that's probably just a bug. I mean they scripted the timers and related events like an orca transport arriving and lifting off with McNeil, just no "you have failed" trigger when the orca fucks off outside the map boundary.

Still the learning curve of the tech and the size of the industry etc. filtered out shit devs much more easily, and most developers being in the start-up rather than heartless big business "how do our quarterly figures shape up, what they're shit? close down random small studios !111!!11" mode also helped a lot.

tl;dr gatekeeping is good, big money is bad, fuck modern AAA.

 

[anvi]

I think Tiberian Sun was their peak. Westwood still at their full creative strength. Generals was good too, once Zero Hour came along to pad it out, but I'd give the edge to Tiberian Sun. It had terrain deformation! Subterranean attacks, stealth, the awesome Firestorm Defense, emp tower was better than the emp strike, 2nd resource which powered a chemical weapon, and much better use of maps and line of sight etc. And probably more.

Most of that was never seen again. Generals adds some good new stuff too though, the healing towers, I loved the money generation from hackers/airdrops, the black lotus that can steal buildings, hack units, sniper that can shoot the drivers of vehicles etc. The tunnel network was great, much better variety with the factions. China brute force, USA high tech, GLA like underground terrorists. It's really cool... I love those games.

But I think they all aged pretty poorly. After playing Supreme Commander where you can whizz the mouse wheel and scroll all the way out into space, it's really hard to go back to old school RTSs. I still used to for the fun super weapons and stuff, but there's a game now called Beyond All Reason which pretty much gives me the best both worlds.

 

[ArchAngel]

I think Tiberian Sun was their peak. Westwood still at their full creative strength. Generals was good too, once Zero Hour came along to pad it out, but I'd give the edge to Tiberian Sun. It had terrain deformation! Subterranean attacks, stealth, the awesome Firestorm Defense, emp tower was better than the emp strike, 2nd resource which powered a chemical weapon, and much better use of maps and line of sight etc. And probably more.

Most of that was never seen again. Generals adds some good new stuff too though, the healing towers, I loved the money generation from hackers/airdrops, the black lotus that can steal buildings, hack units, sniper that can shoot the drivers of vehicles etc. The tunnel network was great, much better variety with the factions. China brute force, USA high tech, GLA like underground terrorists. It's really cool... I love those games.

But I think they all aged pretty poorly. After playing Supreme Commander where you can whizz the mouse wheel and scroll all the way out into space, it's really hard to go back to old school RTSs. I still used to for the fun super weapons and stuff, but there's a game now called Beyond All Reason which pretty much gives me the best both worlds.

Nah, Generals still beats BAR and all such games. In games like BAR it all becomes spamming units and sending them towards enemy without even trying to any micro. It ends up as game of building buildings and managing resources and not really a RTS. You might as well play some grand strategy instead.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

RA3 is only good for the soundtrack, Tim Curry, Gemma Atkinson and Carano.
The actual gameplay is some gaudy shit with too much emphasis on flashy unit abilities, because every bloody corporation wanted to cash in on the moba craze.

I don’t think a game that came out a year before League of Legends was trying to cash in on the MOBA craze League of Legends created. I know there were MOBAs before League of Legends, but League of Legends is why there was money in MOBAs.

 

[anvi]

I think Tiberian Sun was their peak. Westwood still at their full creative strength. Generals was good too, once Zero Hour came along to pad it out, but I'd give the edge to Tiberian Sun. It had terrain deformation! Subterranean attacks, stealth, the awesome Firestorm Defense, emp tower was better than the emp strike, 2nd resource which powered a chemical weapon, and much better use of maps and line of sight etc. And probably more.

Most of that was never seen again. Generals adds some good new stuff too though, the healing towers, I loved the money generation from hackers/airdrops, the black lotus that can steal buildings, hack units, sniper that can shoot the drivers of vehicles etc. The tunnel network was great, much better variety with the factions. China brute force, USA high tech, GLA like underground terrorists. It's really cool... I love those games.

But I think they all aged pretty poorly. After playing Supreme Commander where you can whizz the mouse wheel and scroll all the way out into space, it's really hard to go back to old school RTSs. I still used to for the fun super weapons and stuff, but there's a game now called Beyond All Reason which pretty much gives me the best both worlds.

Nah, Generals still beats BAR and all such games. In games like BAR it all becomes spamming units and sending them towards enemy without even trying to any micro. It ends up as game of building buildings and managing resources and not really a RTS. You might as well play some grand strategy instead.

Generals with BAR camera would be amazing. But we can't have nice things.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

RA3 is only good for the soundtrack, Tim Curry, Gemma Atkinson and Carano.
The actual gameplay is some gaudy shit with too much emphasis on flashy unit abilities, because every bloody corporation wanted to cash in on the moba craze.

I don’t think a game that came out a year before League of Legends was trying to cash in on the MOBA craze League of Legends created. I know there were MOBAs before League of Legends, but League of Legends is why there was money in MOBAs.

LoL didn't create the MOBA craze though, that was Dota. LoL just made a successful commercial product derived from it and coined the term.
Prior to lol there were other attempts to copy Dota and draw in its fanbase. LoL was just the most successful attempt.
I will concede though that CnC4 was the more blatant MOBA wannabe though that took what Red Alert 3 did and made it worse.

 

[ghardy]

After playing Supreme Commander where you can whizz the mouse wheel and scroll all the way out into space, it's really hard to go back to old school RTSs.

For RTS, I'm familiar with the *Craft lineage, the Age of series and Command & Conquer. I haven't played Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander.

How do they differ? Where do they fall on the micro-intensity scale?

 

[anvi]

After playing Supreme Commander where you can whizz the mouse wheel and scroll all the way out into space, it's really hard to go back to old school RTSs.

For RTS, I'm familiar with the *Craft lineage, the Age of series and Command & Conquer. I haven't played Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander.

How do they differ? Where do they fall on the micro-intensity scale?

It's micro intense like Starcraft or whatever, but it takes skill and strategy too. C&C is more about one base and grabbing resources from nearby. TA/SupCom requires you to take as much of the map as you can, for metal nodes. I actually find it to be a pain in the ass and I prefer C&C, but there are things about TA/Supcom that are better too. The graphics engine especially. With most RTS you look down on the units from 100 feet or so and scroll the camera around to see other areas. You can do that in TA/Supcom too, but the best way is to scroll the mouse wheel and it smoothly zooms out higher and higher. Once you scroll out so high that you can't see the units or buildings anymore, it turns them into icons. When you scroll back in, it zooms in to wherever you hold your cursor. So you learn to quickly zoom out to see the whole map, and then zoom into the area you want to focus on. It's really hard to go back from that.

Also you can make huge force fields domes to protect your stuff, I find them really satisfying. Overall I prefer C&C gameplay, but the Beyond All Reason mod / game is great too. It's TA updated by the community into a mostly new game, it's very good.

 

[ghardy]

This is Beyond All Reason, right: https://www.beyondallreason.info/ ?

I see that Supreme Commander and Forged Alliance are on sale too on Steam. If I have some budget left over, I'll see if I can get them.

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Age of series: Empires, Mythology, etc. ?

 

[cvv]

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Age of series: Empires, Mythology, etc. ?

You'd have a hard time finding anyone who didn't like those. Especially AoE 2 used to be one of the most popular games for PvP back in the day. Plus the remake is a masterpiece.

AoM is my shit, played ungodly hours of that thing, it's crazy fun. And soon there's a remake coming, can't wait.

 

[ArchAngel]

This is Beyond All Reason, right: https://www.beyondallreason.info/ ?

I see that Supreme Commander and Forged Alliance are on sale too on Steam. If I have some budget left over, I'll see if I can get them.

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Age of series: Empires, Mythology, etc. ?

BAR has an active MP scene so if you like MP that is the best choice. These type of games do not have much purpose outside of MP anyways.
It is either that or skirmish.

 

[ghardy]

Oh. I thought there would be some single player component apart from the multiplayer focus.

I'll have to let BAR pass, even though it looked quite good.

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh. I thought there would be some single player component apart from the multiplayer focus.

I'll have to let BAR pass, even though it looked quite good.

None of the Total Anihilation type games have any real story or missions.
It is why they never reached the same level of popularity.
Combat also becomes boring fast when optimal way to play is to Zoom out and play with icons that automatically apear from your 10+ factories, move to enemy lines and disaapear as they get destroyed.
You spend your time managing your economy and rebuilding buildings and at best changing waypoints of your production buildings to where there might be a breach in lines.
It is like playing DotA but with no heroes and you play the tree and manage creeps that spawn and go fight and die.
Well technically your starting Commander is a hero but you do not want to lose it.
Also near end of game you can make your ultimate units and a bit of micro can be done with them but they are also mostly smart enough to do well on their own.

 

[anvi]

BAR has some single player missions that are fun, but only about 20. (TA and SupCom have fun single player campaigns). Bar has about 20 and a few of them are impossibly hard. But I loved playing the rest. I mostly play it in multiplayer though but I only play coop against various AIs.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

People are ripping into Tiberium Sun?

The cheesy yet surprisingly well-done cutscenes and story, the setting, the art direction, sound design, level design... It excels in all categories.

 

[Darth Roxor]

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Age of series: Empires, Mythology, etc. ?

You'd have a hard time finding anyone who didn't like those.

Reporting for duty. I've never liked Age of Empires.

 

[ghardy]

Any specific game? Or is the dislike for the gameplay of the series as such?

 

[ghardy]

I bought the Remastered Collection. The "Installation" sequence is so well done. I had a smile the whole time.

The behind-the-scenes footage is excellent.

And the music!

All in all, a great package. How a remaster ought to be.

(Warcraft 3: Reforged quietly slinks into darkness.)

 

[Lincolnberry]

Been playing this on and off for months. Cleared the RA campaigns and GDI, working thru Nod, all on hard.

An absolute joy to play. My memories of the 95 version were very fond, and amazingly you can switch to the 95 graphics and back with a tap of the space bar to see what you were really doing.

Remixed music is incredible, especially on the Tiberium Dawn side. The FMVs and particularly the acting have no right to be this good - Kane lives!. The level design is fantastic, even if a lot of the missions require brute force trial and error especially at the beginnings.

If you like these kinds of games at all you owe it to yourselves to give it a try.

 

[Storyfag]

The level design is fantastic, even if a lot of the missions require brute force trial and error especially at the beginnings.

And sandbags

 

[ghardy]

Do we know if the Remastered Collection was successful enough to make it worthwhile to produce remasters of the newer games?

 

[Ryzer]

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Age of series: Empires, Mythology, etc. ?

You'd have a hard time finding anyone who didn't like those.

Reporting for duty. I've never liked Age of Empires.

Why?