Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Community Expansion Pack for Neverwinter Nights Announced

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Lucy Liu is not hot. She's not ugly (I was exaggerating earlier), but she's not hot. No, I wouldn't consider her hot.

On the other hand, just take a look at this Japanese girl, Reiko Azechi. Why couldn't Bioware make the character look like her?
Some Asian chick Exitium has the hots for by is way too damned wide for the forum



Instead we have this:
jade_05_large.jpg


What the fuck?!
 

Sammael

Liturgist
Joined
May 16, 2003
Messages
312
Location
Hell on Earth
And I don't find that Reiko Azechi Exitium posted attractive in the least. I guess Asian beauty criteria is just different... But there is no denying that she is anorexic.
 

Otaku_Hanzo

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
3,463
Location
The state of insanity.
Lucy Liu can show her age at times, but all together I think she's an attractive woman. If you really want to see her in her prime, watch Police Story with Jackie Chan. She plays a cop from another district who ends up helping Jackie on the case he's doing. Wow. She definitely got my heart thumping. What a doll!
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Lucy Liu != Michelle Yeoh

As for Reiko, she's not anorexic, just small. Asian girls tend to be small, though 5'7" tall ones with 'normal' measurements do exist.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Well, Reiko is cute, but she looks like a 12 year old. Lucy, on the other hand, is uber hot. She was great in Kill Bill, loved her during "now if any of you sonsabitches got anything else to say, now's the fuckin time!" speech. :)
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Yeah, that crazy assassin chick was pretty cute. But the one I really liked was the hot translator chick who gets her arm cut off. She was the hottest actress there.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,985
Off topic or what.

Anyways, romances have never been the reason why I started playing c(rpgs); so i'm not worried about them either way other than how they add to the role-playing which they do. How you interaction with the various "love interest" does (usually) aid in determining the conclusion of said romance, or if there is even a romance to begin with.
 

Ausir

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
2,388
Location
Poland
As for romances in games, they haven't been done very well by Toika in ToEE either (although I think the Tolub one was the first gay romance quest I've seen in a game).
 

Otaku_Hanzo

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
3,463
Location
The state of insanity.
Exitium said:
Lucy Liu != Michelle Yeoh

D'oh! Got me on that one. :? I know she was in a Jackie Chan movie though. I'd almost bet anyone on here's life on it. :P Damn, I wish I hadn't of lost all my video tapes. :( She was in a Jackie Chan flick, right?
 

Jed

Cipher
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
3,287
Location
Tech Bro Hell
I'm less disturbed that Rex finds Lucy Liu unattractive as I am that he thinks Bastilla is pretty. I thought she was one of the ugliest female game leads EVAR! She looks like a librarian crossed with a muppet. The Twilek NPC, or hell--even the tiger lady--were much more "attractive" (we are talking about games, after all) than Bast(ard)illa.
 

Dgaider

Liturgist
Developer
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
316
Saint_Proverbius said:
If you want to do things like that, I'd say the best way to set them up is to have them based on location and what quests are active. Things like that are best left to bars and taverns or safe resting spots like inns when there isn't a major quest active. If there is an active quest, the characters should be focused on that quest, not on their feelings about their past or something like that.

Part of that problem is with the resting system inherent in NWN... or in any game where resting is voluntary, really. You're going to have a hard time pacing any kind of story when you can't be sure when or how often the player will rest. Some players rest in NWN after every battle, some don't, and inns aren't even a requirement in most cases. Ideally I'd like a game with lots of pauses for "downtime" like romance... but I have to work a story inside of the framework I'm given, right?

I thought we'd done better in KotOR and HotU by switching up the romance between conversations they initiate and conversations that require the player's initiation... but I suppose that's a matter of viewpoint.

I completely agree with NPC-initiated dialogues being based more on events and location, however. If you just encountered a monster or visited a location it would be great if you could ask the NPC about those things and their stories/plot flow out of THAT rather than them coming up with subjects off the top of their head (which is the more convenient path, mind you, as they can happen anywhere and the player never runs the risk of missing out through mere ignorance).

This is where I'd like to move the romance plots in the future to, requiring the player to move things forward actively and making conversations more context-based, but it won't be easy. Someone brought up something here where many players want their Charisma of 3 yet also want to experience everything the game offers, including romances, the first (and possibly only) time through... and unfortunately that's a consideration that's inescapable no matter how much we'd like to think it should be otherwise (flame me for it if you wish).

-------------------

Incidentally, insofar as the female character in Jade Empire is concerned... that may not be a final image, they tend to do a fair bit of tweaking on models as time goes by. You should have seen some of the older models of Carth Onasi. He used to look like Burt Reynolds, yeeeeesh. There's also likely to be other possibilities for female avatars besides just the one... though the chance of having some wee 12-year old sex kitten as one of those options is pretty unlikely. :)
 

Anonymous

Guest
Maybe for the folks who dont wanna stick to the rules, maybe do the opposite in a 'Ironman' or 'Hardcore' difficulty.

I.E. Normally, to cater to the main fans, stat rolls dont come in as much (or at all), but in Hardcore mode they do abid by the numbers and stuff.

Personally, I think i'd make BioWare's games more fun to include a 'Hardcore'-like setting, because I usually find their games (especially NWN) waaaay too easy, even on Hard.
 

Diogo Ribeiro

Erudite
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
5,706
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Dgaider said:
Part of that problem is with the resting system inherent in NWN... or in any game where resting is voluntary, really. You're going to have a hard time pacing any kind of story when you can't be sure when or how often the player will rest. Some players rest in NWN after every battle, some don't, and inns aren't even a requirement in most cases. Ideally I'd like a game with lots of pauses for "downtime" like romance... but I have to work a story inside of the framework I'm given, right?

Admitedly that can cause a problem. NWN seems to cause the larger problem, though. There are players who rest after every battle, others don't even use inns. But then again, the NPC could comment that he/she would want a quieter place to talk to the PC; and the player would realize that the romance could be moved forward only when using inns. A timing counter could be tacked on to determine that the next NPC romance advancement would only occur in a given time (like say, 5 days within game time), but only on an inn. If there are several towns, this is easily doable. If there is only a major hub-like city, then it would cause problems having to travel back and forth.

I thought we'd done better in KotOR and HotU by switching up the romance between conversations they initiate and conversations that require the player's initiation... but I suppose that's a matter of viewpoint.

I completely agree with NPC-initiated dialogues being based more on events and location, however. If you just encountered a monster or visited a location it would be great if you could ask the NPC about those things and their stories/plot flow out of THAT rather than them coming up with subjects off the top of their head (which is the more convenient path, mind you, as they can happen anywhere and the player never runs the risk of missing out through mere ignorance).

I believe it depends also on what you'd think constitutes a better simulation of a romance: the PC having the dominant role, or the NPCs. I think that both ways could converge and form a better sense of individuality in the relationship.

Someone brought up something here where many players want their Charisma of 3 yet also want to experience everything the game offers, including romances, the first (and possibly only) time through... and unfortunately that's a consideration that's inescapable no matter how much we'd like to think it should be otherwise (flame me for it if you wish).

::whips up flamethrower:: :twisted:

I think its the gamer mentality that needs to change, not games that have to adapt. Its simple really: if a character doesn't have enough Int, he can't talk well, and can't learn enough spells. If a character doesn't have enough Str, he can't carry as much items as he would be able to with a higher value. If a character doesn't have enough Con, he doesn't get more bonus HP per level. If a character doesn't have a high Cha, he can't alwwys convince people, and he doesn't get the booty! If players have gotten used to a gameplay concept where you need the right stat to do certain things, then it shouldn't be a problem to them. If my character with very low stats can do the same things a character can do with higher stats, then the game is being made for lazy people with no real wish to play.

There's also likely to be other possibilities for female avatars besides just the one... though the chance of having some wee 12-year old sex kitten as one of those options is pretty unlikely. :)

They don't have to know her age :twisted:
 

Human Shield

Augur
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
You know when you move from town to town and that thing comes up saying "10 day travel". You think there would be a few campfires there?
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
14,040
Location
Behind you.
Role-Player said:
Admitedly that can cause a problem. NWN seems to cause the larger problem, though. There are players who rest after every battle, others don't even use inns. But then again, the NPC could comment that he/she would want a quieter place to talk to the PC; and the player would realize that the romance could be moved forward only when using inns. A timing counter could be tacked on to determine that the next NPC romance advancement would only occur in a given time (like say, 5 days within game time), but only on an inn. If there are several towns, this is easily doable. If there is only a major hub-like city, then it would cause problems having to travel back and forth.

Another thing they could do is encourage a player to go to the inn for reasons other than resting. Fallout is probably the first RPG where I actually went to locations like that due to the gambling skill. When I needed money and had a character with that skill, I'd just gamble for it. You can also do things like having some kind of friendly combat dealie like the boxing in Fallout 2 or KotOR's nondeathmatch thing where you can gain experience through sparring in that locale. You can also do something like ToEE's drinking game situation where an unsavory character might drink some people under the table in order to loot their belongings. You could have the tavern keep as a source of information if the tavern caters to a more unseemly crowd, rough him up for some info or bribe him.

Whatever you do, if you do have reasons for players to take more of an interest in taverns, then you can also make the initiation of the romancy stuff fit the activity at the tavern the player is interested in. Making it situational based on the activity the player is engaging in at the time would also make it seem more, for lack of a better word, realistic.

Take the gambling example. You could have a good aligned follower express concern about the gambling, somewhat nagging them, with a basic, "I didn't know you cared." reply from the player as a simplified case. Meanwhile, a less scrupulous follower might be interested when the player might spend some of that money on him/her as a lead in. Basically, the love me for my money theme.

I think its the gamer mentality that needs to change, not games that have to adapt. Its simple really: if a character doesn't have enough Int, he can't talk well, and can't learn enough spells. If a character doesn't have enough Str, he can't carry as much items as he would be able to with a higher value. If a character doesn't have enough Con, he doesn't get more bonus HP per level. If a character doesn't have a high Cha, he can't alwwys convince people, and he doesn't get the booty! If players have gotten used to a gameplay concept where you need the right stat to do certain things, then it shouldn't be a problem to them. If my character with very low stats can do the same things a character can do with higher stats, then the game is being made for lazy people with no real wish to play.

I tend to agree with this. In fact, if the low charisma character did want the romance, you can play on that as well by having the low charisma character do something to force the follower in to a romance by some third party means. You know, by magic spell or potion, a curse, or some other thing that the player can either cast or brew themselves or pay to have it done. The game just has to show them there's consequences for that. There should be a consequence for the nappy dwarf having put his points in to something other than Charisma, and that consequence is no true love. But they can get around that if they're willing to pay a price and do something that's basically wrong, subjugating the follower. There should also be a price for subjugation, like other followers really not being happy about this situation or the subjugate becoming so compelled by the love magic that they become overly obsessive to the point of being scary.

Basically, they should know that being charming is more likely to get them the lovin's, and if they bipass that, there's a lofty price but they can still do it. If they're evil, there wouldn't be much of a price they would care much about. If they're good aligned, then they damned well should learn a lessen out of it.
 

Human Shield

Augur
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
I don't know if the world is ready for magical dwarven rapists.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom