Development Info Coreplay Issues Statement in Response to bitComposer Interview

[LundB]

Look I'm no fan of BitComposer, but when I read this little bit of cattiness:

But of course, everyone can form their own opinion about how strong bitComposer’s aim is to publish quality games and how fair and cooperative they are.

I can't do anything but roll my eyes.

Yeah BC's publishing track record is shit, but so is Coreplay's development track record. One could just as easily say "Everyone can form their own opinion about how strong Coreplay's aim is to develop quality games and how fair and cooperative they are." In fact, given the fact that BC has actually managed to publish one or two decent games, while Coreplay has developed none (whether that's their fault or not), it might actually make MORE sense.

 

[Capitalism]

Agreed. But that's how they do things. Coreplay asked them some cash for the game that will be released in February/March 2013, bitComposer gave it to them.

Well, we could also torrent all games and say that that's how we do things. Releasing an unfinished game without informing customers that it's unfinished is a fraud.

Do you believe that evilPublisher would say to Coreplay: "Release Chaos Chronicles in February unfinished! Let the gamers suffer! Mwahahaha!"?
I'm pretty sure that their position was that the game should be released in finished state on initial release date, that's all.
If the milestone screwjob is true, then it's shitty without a doubt. But what is so bad in expecting the game to be finished in time?

 

[Drowed]

I'm pretty sure that their position was that the game should be released in finished state on initial release date, that's all.
If the milestone screwjob is true, then it's shitty without a doubt. But what is so bad in expecting the game to be finished in time?

When the time given is not consistent with the proposal made, it is bad because it's at best naive, or simply dishonest at worst. This is the issue here*.

*If what Coreplay says is true, of course.

 

[Cynic]

This shit is done bros. Fuck everyone involved because honestly, I don't care who's fault it was, you took away a possible competitor to ToEE and for that, you shall earn my endless wrath.

 

[GrimoireFTW]

Im not buying any of this. If you ask me its all an elaborate scheme to milk a shit ton of money on kickstarter. watch in a few weeks or months when they come out and say the only way this game can be saved is by crowdfunding on kickstarter or else the game will never see the light of day.

 

[mindx2]

Look I'm no fan of BitComposer, but when I read this little bit of cattiness:

But of course, everyone can form their own opinion about how strong bitComposer’s aim is to publish quality games and how fair and cooperative they are.

I can't do anything but roll my eyes.

Yeah BC's publishing track record is shit, but so is Coreplay's development track record. One could just as easily say "Everyone can form their own opinion about how strong Coreplay's aim is to develop quality games and how fair and cooperative they are." In fact, given the fact that BC has actually managed to publish one or two decent games, while Coreplay has developed none (whether that's their fault or not), it might actually make MORE sense.

That part of the statement really bugged me as well. Makes them look childish and unprofessional.*



*Which makes sense why they wanted their forums here at the Codex. :D

 

[crakkie]

Agreed. But that's how they do things. Coreplay asked them some cash for the game that will be released in February/March 2013, bitComposer gave it to them.

Well, according to Coreplay:

The dispute between the publisher bitComposer Entertainment AG and the developer Coreplay GmbH started in Autumn 2012 with the controversy about an early release of the game 'Chaos Chronicles' in February/March 2013. As we (Coreplay) stated then, a release at this time would lead to terrible consequences for the game regarding its quality, content, and stability.

So Coreplay was only told in Autumn 2012 that the game would be released in Feb/Mar 2013? Did they have different release date/window up to that point, since they are referring to it as an early release here? Or was that the point at which this changed from XBLA ARPG to CRPG and they realized the scope of work they had ahead?

 

[Grotesque]

Look at all the virgin whores that are bursting with professionalism and are appalled by the last remark in the statement!
Lets see how you manage with the frustration of being skullfucked and bled away by a publisher that poses as Mother Theresa on the internet.

 

[LundB]

Look at all the virgin whores that are bursting with professionalism and are appalled by the last remark in the statement!
Lets see how you manage with the frustration of being skullfucked and bled away by a publisher that poses as Mother Theresa on the internet.

My complaint had less to do with professionalism than it did with the fact that the very same remark could just as easily (more easily, even) be leveled at Coreplay itself, given their godawful track record. The cattiness of the comment just begs to have that pointed out. Anyway, interesting to see you jumping unequivocally on the poor wittle baby dev's side against the big bad evil publisher, despite having no more information than anyone else about the truth (or you do, but are therefore an involved party and not to be trusted).

As for remaining professional despite frustration at work, I'm pretty sure most people with jobs have had to do it at one point or another. It's not exactly an insurmountable challenge, more a basic aspect of being an adult. Also, some of us are good enough at our jobs that when there's skullfucking going on, we're not on the receiving end.

 

[Metro]

Look at all the virgin whores that are bursting with professionalism and are appalled by the last remark in the statement!
Lets see how you manage with the frustration of being skullfucked and bled away by a publisher that poses as Mother Theresa on the internet.

No one held a gun to their head and forced them to seek funding from BC. Still remains to be seen how they were 'skullfucked' as the time frames are very vague.

 

[Haba]

Delightfully clueless people ITT.

Chaos Chronicles ship has sailed a long time ago. You think those guys are just sitting on their thumbs, waiting for this to clear up? Another eight months without any source of income?

Obviously CP crew has found a new, paying facebook game/f2p/app development/prostitution job by now. The ones who didn't already leave the company, that is.

Small businesses are fucked up without angel investors with deep pockets. Once again, greed prevails.

 

[Infinitron]

@HobGoblin42 If development on Chaos Chronicles only began in July 2012, then where did these pretty screenshots come from? That announcement is from August.

 

[undecaf]

Heh, this case is all over the place.

The fairest, and safest stance is this:

until there is confirmation for good that the game will or will not be finished.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's dead, Jim.

 

[HobGoblin42]

@HobGoblin42 If development on Chaos Chronicles only began in July 2012, then where did these pretty screenshots come from? That announcement is from August.

I've never said that. I just mentioned that we were working on JA:BiA products until July 2012 (along with Chaos Chronicles), with 10-12 people in total.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh I see. Well, that changes things.

 

[evdk]

Oh I see. Well, that changes things.

Not in any way that would actually matter to us, as assigning blame for this fiasco is of no use.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Do you believe that evilPublisher would say to Coreplay: "Release Chaos Chronicles in February unfinished! Let the gamers suffer! Mwahahaha!"?
I'm pretty sure that their position was that the game should be released in finished state on initial release date, that's all.
If the milestone screwjob is true, then it's shitty without a doubt. But what is so bad in expecting the game to be finished in time?

Soviet mentality - just because something was planned, it will magically happen, and if it won't, we'll pretend that it happened - at the cost of gamers who would buy an unfinished game, of course. Judging by the amount of time missing, it would be comparable to the Realms of Arcania demake.
Making games is more of art than science and release dates shifting a few to several months aren't exactly uncommon. You can't scjenmagistically divine when exactly they will be finished at the start of the project.

 

[Excommunicator]

A contract was written clarifying all the terms and conditions, by which bitComposer would transfer all their alleged rights to the game to Coreplay and would in return be paid immediate compensation.

This is the part that gets me. I've always maintained that IP is king, so Coreplay trying to make these kinds of demands is just plain unrealistic. Hinging the game on such unrealistic demands and then trying to suggest you want to come to a resolution is irresponsible. Of course they want to keep the rights, just as much as the developer wants to get control of them. It's worse to expect them to sign that on the day, and I don't expect the "compensation" Coreplay offered would be worth giving up the rights for anyway, especially considering they haven't attempted to use those funds on development.

 

[AbounI]

@HobGoblin42 If development on Chaos Chronicles only began in July 2012, then where did these pretty screenshots come from? That announcement is from August.

There was also a showcase of CC at the Gamescon 2012 (end of august), where the project was officially revealed.
here is a german coverage (08/23/2012).It seems the project was quite advanced

Wir haben uns auf der gamescom bereits mit Hilfe einer fortgeschrittenen Vorabfassung davon überzeugen lassen

then, originally, it was called "Myth Of Glory", his dev has started in 2010.
Seems this point is confused

edit: oups, didn't saw the hobgob answer. My apologies.Still hope you'll travel to Koln this year again

 

[Infinitron]

When they started the project isn't as important as when they started getting paid for it. Yes, a January 2013 or March 2013 release date was clearly unrealistic, but had bitComposer been paying them to make the game since 2011?

Here's what I think may have happened:

Coreplay: Hey, bitComposer, you know this hack and slash console game you wanted us to do? How about we make it a tactical turn-based RPG instead? Here, check it out, we already have an engine, here are some cool screenshots we made with it. The RPG Codex loves it!

bitComposer: Hmm, a tactical turn-based RPG is risky, but since it seems you've already done most of the work, then it's not AS risky. Okay, you can do it! But of course, since you've already done most of the work, we feel that six months of development time will be enough.

Coreplay: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. But we really really want to do this game, so we'll accept these terms and try to get an extension later. What's the worst that could happen?

*a year later*

The worst happens.

 

[Volrath]

Oh well, game would have been shit anyway.

 

[villain of the story]

If it is true that bC haven't paid what they were contractually bound to pay, that gives a new perspective on this, along with the dodgy bs answer crashOberbreit gave about Citadels.

It still strikes me as poor business handling to skip a meeting, though. Maybe @Vault Dweller can give his own perspective, given his background as a VP of marketing.

 

[felipepepe]

Coreplay says that bitComposer did not paid them the agreed money, but bitComposer says that Coreplay had not reached the agreed milestone... the pay-by-milestone system is horrible, but it was what was they had signed for... no milestone, no money.

 

[Vault Dweller]

... the pay-by-milestone system is horrible...

It's the only system that works when you sub-contract a team. You can't supervise them directly, you can't pay upfront (it would be foolish), you can't pay them on completion because they need money to keep the employees, so pay-by-milestone is really the only option.