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Vapourware Corven: Path of Redemption - reboot of cancelled Ultima IX fan game

Eli_Havelock

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I love the excuses. Lets have some fun. First off, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the transition to bold-faced use of Cape of Heroes without any quotes. EA's IP preservation team in legal will surely love those details. Richard Garriott is involved? That makes sense - that's what got his Ultimate Collector shut down in about 3 months from actual launch.

I am hard at work with Cape of Heroes still, all aspects of it, worldbuilding, quests... I will show some of it soon. It's going very well, but time is just rushing by.
April Soon™ I hope they don't take the same screenshot and crop it three times like they did for their website.
This might sound cheesy, but it's truly exciting for me to create the continuation of the story of the series we all (or most here) love so much.
Wasn't that supposed to be Shroud of the Avatar? The game Lord Brexit bailed from for this, and then from this to his NFT fuckery? These people even had MassivelyOP print an article specifically for this! What an amazing state the MMO genre must be in lately.
First of all I got stuck on a problem scripting a cutscene. It took me a good while to figure it out and it almost drove me crazy. I learned a lot fixing it but the disadvantages of being a mini team come to light in situations like this. In a big team if someone gets stuck doing their job many others can work on other things at the same time, not so much in our case.
Mini team? So far all he's been able to tell us about is his blunders and show off the commissions he paid an artist for and not much else but push a spiritual authentic sequel to Ultima. Should anyone tell them that the writing and setting that Richard has been known for was mostly written by teams of other people since Ultima IV? Before then it was a little leaning on plagiarism. Oh, I get it now. They're going that far back in Ultima development where Richard later pretended that he made Ultima all by himself and it was completely original and the entire RPG genre sprouted out of his backside. (Also See: Avatar (1979))
I also gave the update to the newest Unity version a shot. It broke too many things. I worked on trying to solve it all, but realized the time lost vs. the payoff is not worth it. The newer render pipelines are nothing I need, I am very happy with the look I achieved and I will stay on my current version throughout development. Another lesson learned which is good but cost time.
I see absolutely nothing was learned from UIX: Redemption's development.
Finally (all problems come in 3s) our 2D artist founded his own company and is not as available anymore as he once was. I am looking for a good replacement which will take time. I have no doubt I find another talent willing to work with us, so don't worry.
You mean someone was paying a la carte as they go and didn't have asset production secured in ink? I know I shouldn't be surprised from the same talent who took months to make a demo of moveable objects, but sweet Jesus, this is why I follow these shitshows. The amount of money people will throw towards My First Unity Project Online University has been... well, the appropriate adjectives are owned by another company.

Just like the IP they are using - it IS now an authentic Lord British game. :-D
 

Eli_Havelock

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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1782768871/corven-path-of-redemption-0/posts/3634304

August - September 2022​

I know I have said it before but it's still true: it's incredible how time flies.

I could have sworn the last update was just three weeks ago, but here we are.


What am I doing? Putting my head down and working like crazy. That's really the essence of it. Being annoyed with scripts not working like they should. Getting a huge part of a quest done in no time but then getting stuck for days on a detail that just won't work, making my head hurt to a point where I am convinced that I have either lost all sense of logic or the script turned evil and is slowly trying to drive me into insanity on purpose.


I am constantly world building as well of course. By the way, I am doing parts of foliage auto-generated with parameters I set before of course, but I go over every part of it and adjust manually what I don't like. I can honestly say that no part of this world is not either completely or partially designed manually. Nothing is just left up to chance.

Sometimes I go too far and catch myself doing it. I obsess over the placement of a bush or rock and have to shake myself out of it and realize that when playing no one will truly care if this or that object is an inch further to the left or right.


I also got a new portrait for you. Backer Martin:

Original:

14a46d4f4f55b43f820cccf1313e7c28_original.jpg

Corven Portrait:

399825187f2bb1fd96cd5388bba9aeec_original.jpg

Instead of showing anything about the game's actual progress here's another commissioned backer portrait.
Stay tuned until December for the same level of detail about October and November! :lol:
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
:M https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1782768871/corven-path-of-redemption-0/posts/3680196

November 2022​


2022 is almost over. Months just fly by.

The initial goal was to be done by the end of the year, but that obviously did not happen. I worked relentless on the game, no vacations, nothing, but still I am far from done. I was too optimistic.

After all the experience I gathered over the last 2 years I reevaluated the time it will take me to be done. It will be by the end of 2024. There is no sugar coating it, this is just how it is. I don't want to string you along month by month, I want to be honest.

There is no problem in development, everything is going as smoothly as is can. Of course there are problems which get me stuck from time to time, I wrote about some of them here, but nothing major. I am not trying to make excuses I am just being realistic. If anyone is really disappointed by that then I am truly sorry! I want to do it right and not rush the second half of development.

Some might say I should just get more people to work on it but I very intentionally did not do that and won't do that. Working on something without payment is something I can not force anyone to do. If someone like that decides to leave I can not stop them and then half-done work by that person needs to be picked up by someone else, most likely me, and by experience I can say that is sometimes worse than if I would have done it by myself from the start.

Again, there is no problem, no project or private issue, no other excuse other than that I am working on it and am not fast enough. Nothing changed, just the time-frame.

My first vacation in years will be summer 2023, when I travel back to Europe for the first time in a loong time.

I hope you all understand and are not too disappointed.
 

Eli_Havelock

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This just hit the OpenMW phase of Ultima IX: Redemption.

With the fragmentation of the team that went from Us / We in the Kickstarter to I in the updates, it's about time this happened, and I'm surprised that it has. At least they're able to update with that much, unlike Stirring Dragon Games who has a whole TWO devs they can speak about publicly on a regular basis, so I'm not exactly sure who drew the short straw there. Cheers to everyone who crowdfunded this developer's education via Kickstarter University: the "take your time" ring of copium has been equipped - I have a feeling that time isn't going to be the issue here, again, seven years later. :salute:

(So... nothing was updated? No backer portrait this month?)
 

Eli_Havelock

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Now almost to March and still no update since November.

$40,647 (minus the cost of character portrait commissions) - not a bad take for minimal "work". Still a little on the amateur side compared to Lord Dick soaking publishers and backers and investors, but I'm sure with his continued influence this may someday rise to the same success as Shroud of the Avatar.

Now all Corv has to do is hope that all of the 479 backers are the same sheep still supporting Stirring Dragon Games and he's scott-free.
That's what people are backing now, right? Years of excuses with nothing to show in all that time?
 

Contagium

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Now almost to March and still no update since November.

$40,647 (minus the cost of character portrait commissions) - not a bad take for minimal "work". Still a little on the amateur side compared to Lord Dick soaking publishers and backers and investors, but I'm sure with his continued influence this may someday rise to the same success as Shroud of the Avatar.

Now all Corv has to do is hope that all of the 479 backers are the same sheep still supporting Stirring Dragon Games and he's scott-free.
That's what people are backing now, right? Years of excuses with nothing to show in all that time?

There must be a lot of independently wealthy people out there that are ok with continuously losing money. I've seen the attitudes of people in Steam forums that say stuff like "eh you win some, you lose some" when Kickstarters go belly-up. As long as people continue to have that attitude about losing money, scams like this will exist.
 

Eli_Havelock

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Kickstarters are like religions, you give money and get sold hope and a lot of empty promises
Indeed, literal cargo cultism.

Despite all the shitstorms and scams before, somehow the sight of anything close to Ultima by some rando asshat who hasn't ever released anything before makes people into absolutely retadred EA-brand codependent consumer cattle.
 

Eli_Havelock

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We're now to the "severe personal problems happened" phase of development for why nothing aside from backer portraits could be shown since when supposedly full-time work was proceeding since March 2022 and going well enough to post "updates" since then. (And in that update there was Generic_Snow_Scene_3 to the tune of Ultima6.remix.lawsuit.)

Dark Blue Monkey said:
I'm afraid we haven't seen any updates in months. The updates have contained no new material, percentages of work complete, burndown charts, anything.

I'm afraid that unless you share an update that actually shows content that's over and above the original demo used to commence the kickstarter, I'm going to request a refund.

Due to Richard's endorsement I pledged at a high level, and although I realise that projects take longer etc, I'm starting to fear that you never had any intention to complete. After this many months of work, you must have some wireframes of new content (not just Unity store assets), some models, some new music, sounds, new maps that aren't more asset flips?

Are you also deleting unwanted comments? I do not see my comment from several months ago asking the exact same question.

Please share some progress in ANY form.

------------------------

I see that my comment was actually on the last update.

My request (from november) still stands. It's been four months. Surely you could fire up OBS and do a few dev screengrabs in that time?

Lycantic said:
I jinxed myself when I wrote that there are no personal issues in the last update. Severe personal problems happened and I am still dealing with it. I am not one to talk about my personal life on the internet, but I can promise that once I "handled" what is going on the updates will come back regularly. I just have to deal with more important things right now. I am very sorry for the delay, but this needs all my energy and attention.

Dark Blue Monkey said:
Understood. So, reading between the lines, no work is currently occurring on Corven, and hasn't been for some time. The project is effectively on hold for the foreseeable future.

I think this has been evident for 6 months or so. We are patient, and realise this is a big project, but if you have chosen to abandon it due to size, or if there was never an intention to go beyond the demo, please be honest with us. A (partial?) refund would be appreciated if it's a genuine realisation that you can't complete the project.

Lycantic said:
Work is being done and has always been done, but yes, way less the last 4 months for those personal reasons. I am not looking for sympathy, else I would write what is going on. The project will be finished 100%, not wishful thinking but fact (unless a truck hits me before it's done).

Again, I am sorry for this delay but I am hopeful that I can go back to my usual schedule soon.

About that "usual schedule" -

Dark Blue Monkey said:
I can't pretend to know your personal circumstances, however basic maths applies. $40k is just enough for a dev to live on for about 6 to 9 months. After that, you can only work on the project part time. Assuming you went hell for leather on Corven, and then worked part time for the rest of the last few years, you've got about 10 man-months of development work under the belt.

I understand that you may be in a difficult position right now, and would strongly recommend SHARING what you've done so far. 10 months is enough time to create a LOT of material. It's almost 2500 hours of work, assuming a standard 8-hour day, 5 day week.

We're all very patient. Heck, we're Ultima fans, we've waited 20 years for a decent sequel/spinoff. But please share something... Anything... of what you've been working on that's not in the demo, or a unity asset from the store. We can comment on it, and become a supportive community with feedback. With no feedback, we cannot support you, and will assume nothing has happened since the campaign.

I look forward to the next update that shows off what you've been up to since May '22 when you moved to working on Corven full time!

Anything that isn't another commissioned backer portrait.
"Screenshots coming soon." - July 2022

Oh, and don't forget: "My first vacation in years will be summer 2023, when I travel back to Europe for the first time in a loong time." Is uh... that still a thing? That was the last update in November 2022.

Edit: Some fun with dates.
 
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Bester

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Reminder that Jaesun and Tigranes bought into the con and were brofisting the guy.
Are you confusing this game with something else? The developer doesn't have an account here and Jaesun & Tigranes have never posted in this thread.
1. Where did I say Jaesun and Tigranes posted anything? Reread my sentence.
2. As for the developer, what is this? https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...elled-ultima-ix-fan-game.112840/#post-4908508
 

Bester

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How do these guys manage to have so much drama from their shitty projects? I want some of that shine on my projects, how do I do that? How do I manufacture drama?
 

Eli_Havelock

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How do these guys manage to have so much drama from their shitty projects? I want some of that shine on my projects, how do I do that? How do I manufacture drama?
Aside from the sure solution ERYFKRAD provided (as I'm sure you're actually wanting a game developed vs whatever the fuck Bloodlines 2 multi-million dollar dev clownshow was supposed to be) it's even more simple and you can do it all on your own:

Take a bunch of money saying you'll do a thing and then completely fail at it to the point you're unable to talk about it anymore, naturally drawing curiosity of those who are familiar enough with healthy game development - and who have dealt with "professional" poster problem children like David Allen in the same way - to know the signs when something is clearly fucked. It also helps if you're absolutely new to actual game development to have shipped nothing ever in the years of "development" and so you're effectively crowdfunding your education of learning the worst practices and having nobody guide you through learning better from them.

There's also the fact that there's enough nostalgia suckers around who will buy into anything with enough name-dropping despite the clear absence of cited previous work history around those Kickstarters, or even previous titles, and they don't like being reminded of this, every time. (Even after their big man of cargo cult of personality personally fucks them over in begathons while he fucks off to the far corners of the Earth. Hopefully he'll go back into space and keep going, preferably taking the last of his cult with him.)

Another bit of advice is present that you don't know that even you know what you want your game to be. When the "movable objects demo" popped up to show how proud they were at engine basics and the "Fight in exciting REAL TIMES battles" ( :lol: ) screenshots were using a different cut of the same angle, I knew we were in for a real treat each times. It symbolized how actual devoid of content this was if they couldn't even give a varied visual description, much less... holy shit, that description. So add "insultingly bad descriptions that would have been rejected from the back of a SNES box".

tgt3hlz.png

The landscape swaps in the demo added just a bit more.

It's also in contradiction to the Kickstarter itself:

This is a shift from many modern RPG's in which character progression and combat are very clearly the main focus. Don't get us wrong, we love those games too, but we want to focus on what made games like Ultima V, VI and VII so great.

Then why any mention of Diablow? Popular or not, it practically invented the click-and-receive loot ARPG for the design ethos the lead Corven dev just rubbished. And this dude is supposed to be doing a spiritual Ultima game all by himself with some art and sound by others and Lord Brexit looked over that shite intro writing and said "Yup, that's Ultima."? Dude, get more popcorn going. If he knew anything about the design of the games he's name-dropping then "Ultima VII combat" or "Baldur's Gate combat" would have worked far better for a supposed emphasis upon characters.

Put a lot of dev time into a demo bait. From the progress seen elsewhere, the time from the movable objects video to the demo was probably entirely spent on the demo. Anything from him since besides demo updates is a mystery, as the only shown things are backer portraits and Ultima 6 remixes.

Blatantly use someone else's IP, especially after having just accused someone else of ruining another game by doing the same thing. This will work well around notoriously-litigious corporations.

At some point when the money is obviously running dry, go communication dark. When pressed for details say it was a personal problem and you don't want to talk about it, even though problems with development would have to be disclosed at some point, versus going into the whole silent treatment from developers, and would actually garner forgiveness and understanding because there was good faith show of information. It certainly worked for September 2021 to cover for otherwise vague details. Then hope nobody notices for many more months.

Claim substance where there is none and "involve" the community by asking for assets from them. "I like to have screenshots with my updates, but I don't feel comfortable showing off stuff that is too far off of what I want it to look like in the end. I don't want anyone to get a wrong idea or be disappointed because of something I know is by far not finished." And then after that promote even more legal liabilities on top of unlicensed remixes while never posting anything close to another screenshot ever again.

Your marketing needs to be contradictory as well. Try first to save what happened with Lord Begathon's cult and be asked to leave, then go into a period of loathing while calling out scam to then then DFE everything to suck up to Lord Behindhand to do the Exact. Same. Thing. It would be like Chris Roberts giving Derek Smart a hand with an in-game version of himself in LoD MMO or Alganon.

The funniest part? The "thanks for the computer upgrade" update was the best details Corv ever gave for anything.
That, and a European vacation per the last update, seem to be what people really bought here except for some new avatars at a premium price.
 
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Eli_Havelock

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You'd think people would have learned by now to not throw in with Lord Dick but now even his critics were trying to get some of that hot action. :lol:
 

Eli_Havelock

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An update straight from the "I didn't bother going into work because of divorce" department (as if the professionals ever get to do that):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1782768871/corven-path-of-redemption-0/posts/3818748
I sincerely apologize for not posting in such a long time!


I don't like posting about personal matters on the internet, but I feel I owe you all an explanation.


To make a long story short: I am going through a rough, everything but straightforward, divorce. I am also in the process of moving to a different state.


I am not a fan of people throwing a pity party for themselves, but it truly has not been an easy time. And the development of Corven took a back seat as, I at least hope, most of you will understand.


By no means is Corven dead or cancelled. I simply had no choice but to take this break from development.


My move and, hopefully, the divorce will be done soon. Once I am settled in I can concentrate on Corven again. Please give me a bit more time.


This is my absolute passion project and it will never be cancelled. But again, I apologize for the silence.


I hope you all are doing great and don't have to deal with anything like this. I don't wish it on anyone.


Here's to better days ahead!

Some comments that prompted this update:

I think what is most telling is if you go back and look at what has actually been shared. The original campaign looked like unity store assets and the one update with the snow looked like a resin and some inbuilt particle effects. I don't actually think any work has been done in over 15 months, and possibly nothing serious beyond the alpha demo. The dev had a nice year with 40k extra income, but is silently hoping we all lose interest. I've given up waiting for a response. I doubt we'll ever see more actual work completed, and never the full game promised. The money has been spent. Game over. Let's just chalk it up to experience and move on. As you say, it's kickstarter. It's a fine line between an intentional scam and someone overreaching their capability. I just think the dev had good intentions but just never figured out how to pivot to full time game dev.

People would help if they knew, just look at Kenshi. This cagey silence is more revealing that there's a LOT not being told here. If there was like a variety of location screens and other assets being shown off for those 15 months this story might seem a bit believable and garner actual support instead of wary sympathy.

nickbe said:
Still I think that some things take time and some issues need more time than others. And personal issues are the worst. So I still keep believing in Corven and I'd rather choose to offer help to something I think is a huge achievement for such a small team.

40k "extra" income. I'm a programmer myself and 40k is nothing you can build a company on. To create Corven you have to put immense time into the project and for all I have seen so far the guy has put all the time he could muster into this. Thousands of hours. So I keep faith because I think it's worth doing it.

Where is any proof of that? For all we can see, someone begged for a chunk of change based upon a demo that had more work shown on it than anything else since and then had the wife wonder when the real money is going to come in. What, did she just not like how the European Vacation didn't happen or something?

Anyways, boom, there goes the rest of the KS moneys.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Ehehehe: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...osts/3818748?comment=Q29tbWVudC00MDAyOTM5OQ==
Stirring Dragon Games

Very sorry to hear about this...life is unpredictable at times. When a project is made by a small (or solo) teams, it's especially at the mercy of life events that happen to the team. Some of us understand all too well what it's like to have your life fall apart on you in the middle of working on a project. One foot in front of the other, you'll get there eventually as long as you refuse to give up. We're rooting for you. Please reach out if we can help you in any way (development or otherwise).
 

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