Decline Critical role ruined PnP

[Reinhardt]

Spiders are based and spread fear and terror

Not true. They are kinda cute. Downloaded bunch of books about spiders just before new year. Reading 'Nids by Ray Garton right now.

 

[MiguelSerranoFan]

Most issues with der ewige Critical Rigger can be resolved by simply playing a more deadly system. WACKY! tiefling bards with 2,500 word backstory will no longer appear in campaigns where characters can be rolled up with 1 HP and get instakilled by a kobold ala D&D 0e or its OSR offshoots.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It also proves that you're a big SJW faggot by citing a woke urinalist. Now you get to go on the stupid list because you can't be an adult and talk like one. Bye bye faggot.

If I had a nickel for every time this pigman rape baby has quit the argument before immediately coming back and acting like a dumb faggot again...

Well, I'd have at least 5 or 6 nickels by now.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Btw, on JamesDixon saying that 1E monsters never raped anyone...

From the 1E Dungeon Master's Manual:

Non-Human Soldiers:
There can be various units of non-human troops available for mercenary duty, but this depends upon your milieu. It is suggested that as a general rule such troops be enlisted only where they actually dwell, and only if the player character champions their cause or is a minion of their alignment, religion, or the like, or is a racial hero.
The types of soldiers available depends entirely on the race (see MONSTER MANUAL for such information).
The less intelligent non-humans will serve for from 10% to 60% less cost, but these evil creatures will certainly expect to loot, pillage, and rape freely at every chance, and kill (and probably eat) captives. Dwarves will serve at double rates, or at normal rates if they are basically aiding a champion of their cause and people. Gnomes and halflings will only serve in the latter case.

 

[JamesDixon]

Ya know it's hilarious to watch a child flail around throwing a temper tantrum knowing that they're not going to be seen. Do you feel better now? Do you need your diaper changed? Is it your naptime?

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Ya know it's hilarious to watch a child flail around throwing a temper tantrum knowing that they're not going to be seen.

If you didn't see my post, you wouldn't be responding.

That's the funny part about you. You block everyone, but you're so narcissistic and desperate for feedback, you can't help but check what they say anyway.

In the end, it's just a passive aggressive move on your part. You're like a child sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling "I can't hear you!" And yes, it is pretty amusing to watch you do this every time.

 

[Morblot]

Just thought I'd add what the PHB has to say about half-orcs. Not much, but here it is anyway:

There's also this sweet picture:

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Just thought I'd add what the PHB has to say about half-orcs. Not much, but here it is anyway:

The monster manual it cites has a little more:

Spoiler

They're basically playable orcs, but a small percentage of them could be something else, passing themselves off as merely ugly humans.

They're "unsavory mongrels", and it seems a lot about who and what they are should be taken with orcs in mind.

The DM's Guide describes them as boors and bullies ftmp.

 

[Morblot]

The monster manual it cites has a little more

Yeah, that was in the thread already, I think. But the DMG bit wasn't.

I wonder if we're still missing something Gary Gygax wrote about half-orcs.

 

[JamesDixon]

Just thought I'd add what the PHB has to say about half-orcs. Not much, but here it is anyway:

View attachment 22302

There's also this sweet picture:

View attachment 22301

It's what I said two pages back. It makes no mention of rape whatsoever as claimed by the children. The rape stuff was added by Wizards of the Woke in Not-D&D 3.xE as I quoted that source as well.

 

[JamesDixon]

The monster manual it cites has a little more

Yeah, that was in the thread already, I think. But the DMG bit wasn't.

I wonder if we're still missing something Gary Gygax wrote about half-orcs.

That's the thing is that is all he wrote on them. The entire argument started with the moronic claim that half-orcs started the decline of D&D. The point I made was that Gary wrote them into the game in AD&D 1E in 1977-1979. The rape strawman came in as a strawman argument as Gary didn't write his half-orcs to be the result of rape. No amount of twisting the plain meaning of the descriptions will change that fact. Wizards of the Woke Not-D&D 3.xE is when the rapey orcs entered the picture. Gary was long gone by that point, so if the decline happened it was under Wizards of the Woke not Gary and TSR.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

It's what I said two pages back. It makes no mention of rape whatsoever as claimed by the children. The rape stuff was added by Wizards of the Woke in Not-D&D 3.xE as I quoted that source as well.

He pretends he didn't see this post:

Btw, on JamesDixon saying that 1E monsters never raped anyone...

From the 1E Dungeon Master's Manual:

Non-Human Soldiers:
There can be various units of non-human troops available for mercenary duty, but this depends upon your milieu. It is suggested that as a general rule such troops be enlisted only where they actually dwell, and only if the player character champions their cause or is a minion of their alignment, religion, or the like, or is a racial hero.
The types of soldiers available depends entirely on the race (see MONSTER MANUAL for such information).
The less intelligent non-humans will serve for from 10% to 60% less cost, but these evil creatures will certainly expect to loot, pillage, and rape freely at every chance, and kill (and probably eat) captives. Dwarves will serve at double rates, or at normal rates if they are basically aiding a champion of their cause and people. Gnomes and halflings will only serve in the latter case.

Or this one:

Note how they take slaves for "entertainment (torture, etc)", but kill elves, whom they coincidentally can't breed with.

A mystery, I know.

Or this one:

Again: Please tell us more about the orc Don Juan's charming the local human village girls in your mind. I love a good romance story.

Or this one:

James you dumb motherfucker, not having the exact words "half-orcs are rapebabies much like JamesDixon was" printed doesn't mean you can't use basic deduction to put two and two together on how an evil race conceives the "half" part of the "half orc."

As always, he acts like a child and pretends he can't hear you when he knows he's lost the argument.

 

[Morblot]

Holy shit, it's like the two of you are a married couple in the middle of an ugly divorce and the readers of this thread are your children and you're trying to explain things to us in a really passive-aggressive way.

This is beyond awesome.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I wonder if we're still missing something Gary Gygax wrote about half-orcs.

All you're missing is what he wrote on Orcs. It was 1977, he wasn't about to turn the creature descriptions into a rape fanfic.

That said, it clearly spells out what orcs are, that they take captives for "entertainment (torture etc.)" and the DMG spells out that they want to rape freely.

JamesDixon himself realized it several pages back, and that's why he can't tell us how exactly half-orcs are conceived. But he's such an obstinate clown that he can't admit he's wrong.

edit:

Holy shit, it's like the two of you were a married couple in the middle of an ugly divorce and the readers of this thread were your children and you're trying to explain things to us in a really passive-aggressive way.

M-married?? B-but I don't even like him! Baka!

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The entire argument started with the moronic claim that half-orcs started the decline of D&D.

And they did. The second you let some dumb shit like half-orcs in you start having every motherfucker like you begging the questions, "well what about I play some half-" insert some evil race here. All because they lack the imagination to be interesting on their own they need to stand out by playing something off-the-wall and bonkers.
Then again back in the late '70s they never would have foreseen their goofy little make-believe game being taken over by a bunch of deplorables and rape fetishists like yourself.

Let me ask you this: why do you give so hard of a fuck about this? It can't be due to some rather homo-erotic adherence to Gary Gygax's ancient scriptures, I refuse to believe a grown-ass man is this much of an intense retard. Orcs are marauding assholes, they pillage and rape. You don't feel bad about killing them. You take their shit and move on. Are you one of these losers that needs every single thing to be boring ass grey?

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I wonder if we're still missing something Gary Gygax wrote about half-orcs.

If this was the GGS of six-seven years ago I'd tell James to go ask Gary himself.

God, I had balls then. Big balls. Should've seen 'em.

 

[JamesDixon]

Holy shit, it's like the two of you are a married couple in the middle of an ugly divorce and the readers of this thread are your children and you're trying to explain things to us in a really passive-aggressive way.

This is beyond awesome.

Who are you talking about? I see no one except for you bud.

 

[Sunri]

The entire argument started with the moronic claim that half-orcs started the decline of D&D.

And they did. The second you let some dumb shit like half-orcs in you start having every motherfucker like you begging the questions, "well what about I play some half-" insert some evil race here. All because they lack the imagination to be interesting on their own they need to stand out by playing something off-the-wall and bonkers.
Then again back in the late '70s they never would have foreseen their goofy little make-believe game being taken over by a bunch of deplorables and rape fetishists like yourself.

Let me ask you this: why do you give so hard of a fuck about this? It can't be due to some rather homo-erotic adherence to Gary Gygax's ancient scriptures, I refuse to believe a grown-ass man is this much of an intense retard. Orcs are marauding assholes, they pillage and rape. You don't feel bad about killing them. You take their shit and move on. Are you one of these losers that needs every single thing to be boring ass grey?

You just described why Orcs are cool

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

They are cool, until PLAYERS get their hands on them. Then they will always fag 'em up.

 

[Raghar]

Actually considering biliverdin is a poison for animals who don't have special metabolism that allow keep high concentration of biliverdin in blood without quickly converting it to bilirubin. It should kill any combination of greenskin and not greenskin genes.

Lips should be bright green for healthy ork or goblin. (thought goblins might have additional pigmentation)

The really interesting stuff is a standard ecologic equation, smaller animals are breeding faster, and they have higher populations because theirs smaller body mass allows them to sustain more population per the same food income.
On the other hand, they are dumber. It's vicious cycle. Too much dumb and they are dying out, too big and they are typically killed by faster breeding smaller and dumber variants.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Hey alright.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Let me ask you this: why do you give so hard of a fuck about this? It can't be due to some rather homo-erotic adherence to Gary Gygax's ancient scriptures, I refuse to believe a grown-ass man is this much of an intense retard. Orcs are marauding assholes, they pillage and rape. You don't feel bad about killing them. You take their shit and move on. Are you one of these losers that needs every single thing to be boring ass grey?

The irony is, JamesDixon is the one who brought it back to 1st Edition, where Orcs are the most rapey savages they've ever been.

2nd edition onward, apart from whatever 3.x edition quote he mentioned, tried to offer other er... "creative" explanations for Half-Orcs for the whiners who didn't want to be the ugly rape baby they were. Like some divine power turning barbarians into half-orcs. Factol Lhar in Planescape was the son of a blind human who was banging an orc woman fsr.

Of course, these exceptions merely prove the rule in how hard they have to reach for some other explanation than the obvious, and it's probably why Half-Orcs were removed as a playable race in 2e. In the Dragon #27 (1983) above, Half-Orcs are said to be born in "questionable circumstances at best". And I think that anyone with a brain can read between the lines that they were going to be rape babies in the vast majority of cases. It's ridiculous that anyone would get so butt-blistered over something this obvious.

Generic-Giant-Spider is completely right. Because orcs are basically big green black people, and have been since Tolkien, there was always going to be an issue. But making them half-human player characters was just asking for trouble. Since anyone who plays a character is going to start self-inserting things and might, like JamesDixon here, start to get a very upset that his character is an ugly rape bastard.

I leave you with this, the fruit of this incredibly bad idea, decades later:

https://www.wired.com/story/dandd-must-grapple-with-the-racism-in-fantasy/

D&D Must Grapple With the Racism in Fantasy
“ORCS ARE HUMAN beings who can be slaughtered without conscience or apology.” This damning assessment of one of fantasy’s most ubiquitous villains comes from N. K. Jemisin, titan of modern fantasy and slayer of outdated genre tropes. As “kinda-sorta-people,” she writes, orcs are “fruit of the poison vine that is human fear of ‘the Other.’” The only way to respond to their existence is to control them or remove them.
...
Half-orcs’ “savage attack” lets players reap extra damage off a critical hit. All because of their race.

Thanks, Gary. You just had to add green mulattos to the game, didn't you?

 

[Sunri]

They are cool, until PLAYERS get their hands on them. Then they will always fag 'em up.

That I can't answer, I only played DnD when I was 12 and everyone was human

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Ok why did we get playable half orcs again? I mean, who asked for this?

Consider that elves, dwarves, and hobbits halflings were presented as options in original D&D due to the popularity of Tolkien among the players, although Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax both preferred humanocentric campaign settings and neither cared for Tolkien's writings. TSR's use of IP stemming from Tolkien's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings trilogy resulted in a threatened lawsuit against them in 1977, resolved by TSR making some edits to D&D and dropping two wargames it had intended to publish. The AD&D Players Handbook, published in 1978, added three options for races of player-characters: gnomes, half-elves, and half-orcs. Although elves and orcs are both prominent in Tolkien's writings, neither of them were able to produce the type of half-human hybrids presented in AD&D, and gnomes didn't exist at all in Tolkien's writings, thus providing some distance between AD&D PC race options and Tolkien.

 

[JamesDixon]

Ok why did we get playable half orcs again? I mean, who asked for this?

Consider that elves, dwarves, and hobbits halflings were presented as options in original D&D due to the popularity of Tolkien among the players, although Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax both preferred humanocentric campaign settings and neither cared for Tolkien's writings. TSR's use of IP stemming from Tolkien's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings trilogy resulted in a threatened lawsuit against them in 1977, resolved by TSR making some edits to D&D and dropping two wargames it had intended to publish. The AD&D Players Handbook, published in 1978, added three options for races of player-characters: gnomes, half-elves, and half-orcs. Although elves and orcs are both prominent in Tolkien's writings, neither of them were able to produce the type of half-human hybrids presented in AD&D, and gnomes didn't exist at all in Tolkien's writings, thus providing some distance between AD&D PC race options and Tolkien.

It was Tolkien Enterprises that threatened the lawsuit. The company was owned by Saul Zaentz as a subsidiary of the Saul Zaentz Company, so this had nothing to do with the Tolkien Estate.