Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[deuxhero]

Unlanded could also allow the appearance of a lot of non-feudal govts - Carolinglian government, Chinese Government, etc.

Isn't the official reason CK3 doesn't have playable republics that they don't work in a game where everything is based on the player being a hereditary land holders? I understand playable republics are also a most wanted feature, and a multi-generation plot to pull off a Caesar-esqe subversion of a republic into a defacto absolute monarchy would be totally on-brand if the mechanics allowed it to exist.

 

[Harthwain]

Isn't the official reason CK3 doesn't have playable republics that they don't work in a game where everything is based on the player being a hereditary land holders?

CK2 had playable republics in a DLC (called The Republic DLC).

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Unlanded could also allow the appearance of a lot of non-feudal govts - Carolinglian government, Chinese Government, etc.

Isn't the official reason CK3 doesn't have playable republics that they don't work in a game where everything is based on the player being a hereditary land holders? I understand playable republics are also a most wanted feature, and a multi-generation plot to pull off a Caesar-esqe subversion of a republic into a defacto absolute monarchy would be totally on-brand if the mechanics allowed it to exist.

I dunno, CKII had Merchant Republics, but AFAIK it was a massive code wrangle to make it work, I hear the code for that is an absolute mess.
But yes, being able to live without being a hereditary land-holder would absolutely make it far more possible to simulate the old merchant republics.

Hell, if you have some Ancient Rome mod, you could finally do what Imperator should have done: Make it all about being able to play the powerful characters of the Roman Republic and all plan and conspire to seize absolute power.

 

[thesecret1]

I dunno, CKII had Merchant Republics, but AFAIK it was a massive code wrangle to make it work, I hear the code for that is an absolute mess.

They are chock-full of massive bugs to this day. Borderline unplayable, require you to actively work around them just to progress. Sad.

 

[deuxhero]

Unlanded confirmed. Oddly description implies it doesn't have republics among new government types (one would expect them to be mentioned if included).

 

[Average Manatee]

I dunno, CKII had Merchant Republics, but AFAIK it was a massive code wrangle to make it work, I hear the code for that is an absolute mess.

They are chock-full of massive bugs to this day. Borderline unplayable, require you to actively work around them just to progress. Sad.

Not really unplayable but there's a lot of things that can take you unaware. Usually issues with succession skipping people depending on whether they were landed feudally or as a republic.

Also IMO forced seniority succession is really shitty to play with eventually because you're constantly hopping between 65 year olds who rule for 1.5 years before croaking once your dynasty grows. If you intentionally keep your dynasty small and don't land them so they don't grow the tree then it plays a lot better.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Also IMO forced seniority succession is really shitty to play with eventually because you're constantly hopping between 65 year olds who rule for 1.5 years before croaking once your dynasty grows.

Late Soviet Russia Simulator.

But yeah, Republics in CKII are such a mess

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Unlanded confirmed. Oddly description implies it doesn't have republics among new government types (one would expect them to be mentioned if included).

MASSIVE OVER-INCLINE

 

[Fedora Master]

Ah yes, exactly what the game needed, a mode of play that removes most of it from itself.

 

[thesecret1]

Can't wait for paradox writing skill to shine again. I can see it already: "You went to a banquet and made a really funny joke. The king thought it was hilarious! He then took it further and wrote a decree giving you one of his counties, as a joke. Then he got drunk and forgot about it the next day, but the decree remains. Congratulations, Count!"

 

[AdamReith]

Sounds like people would just be content with a random event generator ala reigns. When the model doesn't even track character location or travel times what's the difference?

 

[Minecrawler]

Battles will still take weeks and moving around the map will still take months/years.
And they have no intention of changing that.
They are already saying unlanded is more of a generational thing, i.e. you are basically a gypsy caravan. There's no room for 'playing as a merc captain,' or whatever, within the current engine.

 

[deuxhero]

There's no room for 'playing as a merc captain,' or whatever, within the current engine.

Set out across the world as a historical adventurer, one of your own making, or keep playing your beloved character after being unfortunately deposed from your lands! Travel to distant realms, take on contracts, gather friends, wealth, and fame - do mercenary work, or settle in new lands.

 

[Minecrawler]

There's no room for 'playing as a merc captain,' or whatever, within the current engine.

Set out across the world as a historical adventurer, one of your own making, or keep playing your beloved character after being unfortunately deposed from your lands! Travel to distant realms, take on contracts, gather friends, wealth, and fame - do mercenary work, or settle in new lands.

Yeah, that's what I was commenting on.
There's no way for it to feel natural with 1day/tick.

 

[thesecret1]

Sounds like people would just be content with a random event generator ala reigns. When the model doesn't even track character location or travel times what's the difference?

To be fair, the events have been the focal point of criticism about the game for a while now.

Not that I'm an expert or anything – I've barely touched it. Every time I play for a couple hours at most, then go back to CK2.

 

[Average Manatee]

Can't see how this will work well. Owning land is basically the challenge of CK3. The game is (annoyingly) set up so that vassals give you practically nothing in terms of military or economy but love to revolt. What's the difficulty for unlanded characters? I assume if you're some kind of merc band you can still raise retinue (the actual army units that matter), can still fight wars, capture characters and ransom them (the actual way to make money, not holding shit ass counties that give 1g/month), can still plot to seduce the queen and force the king to let you marry his daughter or w/e your path is to getting a realm, and so on.

Seems a lot like how they added the underground tzeenchian faction in Warhammer 3, which had a bunch of interesting ideas and mechanics behind it but the whole gameplay fell apart due to the fact that there's literally no challenge and you're basically playing a god mode unassailable faction.

 

[deuxhero]

One would assume the challenge of landless is gaining land.

 

[Minecrawler]

Can't see how this will work well. Owning land is basically the challenge of CK3. The game is (annoyingly) set up so that vassals give you practically nothing in terms of military or economy but love to revolt. What's the difficulty for unlanded characters? I assume if you're some kind of merc band you can still raise retinue (the actual army units that matter), can still fight wars, capture characters and ransom them (the actual way to make money, not holding shit ass counties that give 1g/month), can still plot to seduce the queen and force the king to let you marry his daughter or w/e your path is to getting a realm, and so on.

Difficulty is the least of concerns, it just depends on how restricted will be landed vs unlanded.
Under certain conditions, I imagine, landed rulers should be able to raise armies and wipe out unlanded gang.

 

[Socrates]

The game is (annoyingly) set up so that vassals give you practically nothing in terms of military or economy but love to revolt.

Yes this is was a common monarch problem of the era that the game largely simulates well.

 

[Average Manatee]

I agree in principle but the balance is off. For military, MaA are way too powerful in comparison to levies and you only get levies from vassals. This means that military contributions of vassals is always basically zero, and all they do is contribute money to help you maintain your own MaA. But then the balance of income is off. Hiring a mediocre physician costs like 10 years worth of income from a duke that is perfectly loyal to you, same for hosting a feast or hiring a new MaA. Instead the only way to get decent income is stuff like ransoms. I know ransoms were a thing but I don't think kingdoms historically made 90% of their income ransoming nobles to each other.

 

[thesecret1]

You guys are thinking too deep about a meme generator. The goal is to generate hilarious events like a gay Pope cheating on you with the Caliph. The armies, provinces, money, etc. is just a minigame to give you something to do while the game sets up another funny scenario and was probably coded by interns in an evening.

 

[Axioms]

I agree in principle but the balance is off. For military, MaA are way too powerful in comparison to levies and you only get levies from vassals. This means that military contributions of vassals is always basically zero, and all they do is contribute money to help you maintain your own MaA. But then the balance of income is off. Hiring a mediocre physician costs like 10 years worth of income from a duke that is perfectly loyal to you, same for hosting a feast or hiring a new MaA. Instead the only way to get decent income is stuff like ransoms. I know ransoms were a thing but I don't think kingdoms historically made 90% of their income ransoming nobles to each other.

Right? The game actually simulates it terribly. Sure managing vassals was a pain in real life, but the social and political simulations of CK3 aren't deep enough to represent that, or the primary reasons, or the importance and depth of personal and familial relations.

Secret has it right, the game is just about fucking your daughter sister and gay popes. Now technically gay or pedophile popes is realistic, for some centuries of the period anyways, having big gay orgies, or non gay orgies too I guess at the Vatican. But the problem is the game *claims* to be more serious than that. Ah well, on to the next Cat-apult event.

 

[Minecrawler]

You guys are thinking too deep about a meme generator. The goal is to generate hilarious events like a gay Pope cheating on you with the Caliph. The armies, provinces, money, etc. is just a minigame to give you something to do while the game sets up another funny scenario and was probably coded by interns in an evening.

What's funny to me is how they claim they are much more serious and realistic than CKII, because they don't have satanists, supernatural powers and occasional talking horses.
Yet in reality CKII world felt significantly more medieval despite having all of those.
(Daily reminder that you can't take a loan from the Jews and kick them out anymore, but you can "promote Jewish sciences" and get great modifiers for that)

 

[DesolationStone]

Daily reminder that you can't take a loan from the Jews and kick them out anymore, but you can "promote Jewish sciences" and get great modifiers for that

Is there a mod to restore this?

 

[Minecrawler]

Is there a mod to restore this?

Most of those let you borrow from 'merchants' or templars or whatever
There is an old one that does precisely that, but hasn't been updated
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2217675803

Anyway, proper expulsion would require proper minority cultures mechanic, and pdx is unlikely to do that