Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[Higher Game]

No naval combat at default is so retarded, holy fuck. The time to add naval combat is NOW.

Are playable barons going to be a thing? Because its going to be so retarded if they are not.

I always thought barons should be a mix of quasi-tutorial mode with the grand strategy elements toned down, and a role playing niche. Different scales should feel different.

 

[Space Satan]

I'm Brazilian. My ancestors ate frenchmen for breakfast.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm Brazilian. My ancestors ate frenchmen for breakfast.

Disgraceful.

 

[Space Satan]

Prancy nancy civilized kongolese didn't even know you can take someone's else strength by eating them. Amateurs!

Only the choicest bits will do.

 

[mondblut]

I always thought barons should be a mix of quasi-tutorial mode with the grand strategy elements toned down, and a role playing niche. Different scales should feel different.

If you want to play as a baron, play Mount & Blade.

 

[SecondAmendment]

For those of you interested in Byzantium, I offer this most excellent podcast & website:
https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/

I have listened to every episode, learned much, and say it is most fine. Tour time wont be wasted if you partake.

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

For those of you interested in Byzantium, I offer this most excellent podcast & website:
https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/

I have listened to every episode, learned much, and say it is most fine. Tour time wont be wasted if you partake.

And that lad was continuing the adventures left off by Mike Duncan, the guy who did the entire history of the Roman Empire.

https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/

If the Byzantium guy manages to finish, we'll have two podcast that cover almost 2,000 years of history. Perfect audio juice to assist you while you larp your way to world conquest.

 

[SecondAmendment]

For those of you interested in Byzantium, I offer this most excellent podcast & website:
https://thehistoryofbyzantium.com/

I have listened to every episode, learned much, and say it is most fine. Tour time wont be wasted if you partake.

And that lad was continuing the adventures left off by Mike Duncan, the guy who did the entire history of the Roman Empire.

https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/

If the Byzantium guy manages to finish, we'll have two podcast that cover almost 2,000 years of history. Perfect audio juice to assist you while you larp your way to world conquest.

Absolutely, my dude! IMO the Byzantium cast is far better than History of Rome. More detail, more love of the subject, English podcaster, and accompanying blog.

 

[fantadomat]

Meh,history is at its best when read in darkly lid room with a glass of warm cognac and a pack of cigarettes,surrounded by the smell of books.

 

[Jimmious]

You'll fuck up the smell of books with your cigarette smoke though

 

[Space Satan]

First DD

Spoiler

Greetings, and welcome to the first CK3 Feature Dev Diary!

As this is the first DD we want it to be extra juicy, and showcase something that we’re excited about - namely what we’re doing with Dynasties! Dynasties are immaterial yet fundamentally important things that make Crusader Kings what it is - your line must follow an unbroken line of members from your Dynasty; if your Dynasty ends, so does your game.

Now, the representation of Dynasties in CK2 was limited. A character belonged to a Dynasty, and that was that - you got a minor opinion boost with characters that were of the same one, and nothing more. In CK3, we really want to emphasize the power that Dynasties held, and their impact on the medieval world! We want you as the player to feel a bond with your Dynasty, and care for it. To achieve this, we’ve done a multitude of things!

Firstly something that we know will especially please CK2 players, we’ve redefined what a Dynasty actually is - not a monolithic entity, but a collection of Houses. No longer will Dynasties have just one name, one Coat of Arms, and one identity - instead several Houses (aka Cadet Branches!) will be collected under the umbrella that is the Dynasty, working together (theoretically…) towards bringing renown upon the Dynasty!

So, what is a House?
Each Dynasty will have a Founding House (usually of the same name as the Dynasty), which is the first House of that Dynasty. As the game progresses, ruling Dynasty members that are distant by blood to the current House Head (more on this below) may choose to create a Cadet Branch - effectively creating a new House under the Dynasty. Creating a Cadet Branch makes the character creating it House Head (with the most powerful House Head becoming Dynast), and by extension free from the direct influence of their old House Head.

Making your own Cadet Branch requires quite a bit of prestige, that you do not stand to inherit your House Head’s titles, and that all of your Dynastic ancestors are dead (your father can’t be alive, for example). Cadet Branches/Houses come with a lot of flavor: their own names, Coat of Arms and Mottos, usually inspired by the location in which they are founded, and the founding character. For example, if a ruler of the Jimena Dynasty would create a Cadet Branch in southern France, they might be called the Toulouse-Jimenas, and so on.

Now, what is a House Head or a Dynast?
Within a House there is always a leader, a House Head, that wields power over the rest of the members. A House Head has the power to legitimize bastards, call House members to war, and demand that they adhere to their Faith (refusal to convert will result in them creating a new Cadet Branch). The House Head also has inherent leverage on all House members born after they were made head, by virtue of getting a Hook on them (more on Hooks in another DD). They also gain passive prestige based upon the number of members in their House. House leadership follows the succession of the House Head, so that if you’re the leader of your House you will most likely keep that title on succession.

The Dynast, on the other hand, wields significantly more power than a House Head - with their power encompassing the members of all Houses of the entire Dynasty! The Dynast is always the most powerful House Head of a Dynasty, with leadership being updated on the death of the old Dynast. In addition to everything the House Head can do, the Dynast can also Disinherit/Restore Inheritance, Denounce/Forgive members of the Dynasty (which affects opinion in a major way), personally Claim titles held by Dynasty members, and make Dynasty members end wars they have against each other. All of these powers work against every member of the Dynasty, not just the House they’re a part of. The Dynast also gains prestige for every living member of the Dynasty. Being the Dynast is very powerful indeed, but you have to carefully weigh the powers against other benefits, as they cost Renown.

So what is Renown?
Renown is a resource accumulated by a Dynasty, and is used for several things. Firstly, all renown earned by a Dynasty counts towards its Level of Splendor. The Level of Splendor is the outward perception of the Dynasty, how well it is perceived in the eyes of the world, and affects the prestige you get on birth, the prestige when marrying into it, and the maximum long reign opinion you can get. Having a high level also makes it much easier to arrange marriages, especially with Dynasties below your level. Regardless of if Renown is spent or not, the Level of Splendor won’t decrease. The higher your Dynasty’s Level of Splendor, the more impressive its Coat of Arms frame will look. Peasant Dynasties will start at a negative Splendor level, which means that you’ll actually lose prestige for marrying them.

Renown itself is a spendable currency, representing the clout your Dynasty holds over itself. Its use is twofold; firstly it can be used for the most powerful Dynast interactions (getting claims, disinheriting, etc.) and secondly for unlocking Dynasty Legacies (more on this below).

The way you get Renown encourages you to mimic a ‘playstyle’ that was common in reality, but that wasn’t very practical in CK2 - spreading your Dynasty far and wide! You will gain renown for every ruler of your Dynasty that isn’t a subject under another member of your Dynasty. This is based on tier, which means that a King will give more Renown than a Duke, and so on. Marrying in such a way that your Dynasty ends up on the throne of a foreign realm is therefore useful for other reasons than to just murder them until you inherit their lands. Having your Dynasty spread out will give you more Renown, and thus a more powerful Dynasty overall. For example, if you’re playing as the King of England you will NOT gain renown from your landed vassal brother, but you WILL gain renown from your Dynastic cousin ruling a Duchy in the Holy Roman Empire. You will also gain renown from marrying away your dynasty to be spouses of powerful rulers, symbolizing your newfound influence in their realms. This gives you a reason to carefully plan the marriages of your kinsmen, even if you are not in need of an alliance!

So, what are Dynasty Legacies?
We all know that the playing field in Crusader Kings is a very volatile one, you might be Emperor of the World as one character, while being reduced to Count of Norfolk as the next. Dynasty Legacies offer some permanence in this otherwise very wild world, in the form of modifiers and unlocks that affect every member of your Dynasty. Essentially, by using Renown you get to shape what your Dynasty is known for. There’s a myriad of Legacies to choose from, all divided into tracks with an appropriately thematic name, such as ‘Kin’, ‘Guile’ or ‘Blood’. These aim to represent notions the world had (or has) about certain dynasties, i.e., that the Seljuks are warriors, the Abbasids lawmakers, the Habsburgs diplomats (and, ahem, prone to marrying their own kin), etc. Each Legacy track contains five unlocks, each costing a progressively higher amount of Renown to unlock.

In this Dev Diary we will go into details on one of these tracks, “Blood” (which also happens to be my favorite). This track is designed for those of you who enjoy breeding traits into your family line, with the first few unlocks all focusing on increasing the chance of inheritance, emergence, and reinforcement of genetic traits (more on genetic traits in another DD). The last few unlocks will reduce the chance of negative traits appearing (essentially allowing for more.. ‘risky’ marriages), give you the chance to choose a genetic trait to be more common among your kin (i.e. beautiful, intelligent and strong… but also giant or dwarf. No matter how much I pleaded with art I couldn’t get a ‘Habsburg chin’ trait, though!), and finally rounding off with an increase to your Dynasty members Life Expectancy (which increases both their average age, and average fertility - this even means that women of your dynasty remain able to bear children for longer!).

Legacies take a long time to unlock, and you will have to work hard toward unlocking even one full track - though their power more than makes up for the wait. Legacies are chosen and unlocked by the Dynast, so make sure that you’re in control of your Dynasty.

That’s all for this time! We won’t spoil any more of the Legacy tracks for now, but rest assured that they all offer very interesting opportunities for you to shape your dynasty as you would like it! Next up we have a sneak preview of the map, stay tuned for the next DD.

 

[Van-d-all]

Smells like I:Rome streamlining from a mile off. Pretty pictures to mask the lack of depth.

 

[Axioms]

That is not flawless but it is a lot more than I expected from Paradox honestly. Good for them.

 

[Shadenuat]

interesting and historically inspired. I like.

 

[Beastro]

At that time naval combat was galley banging each other. Tribes banged galleys, kingdoms banged galleys, empires banged galleys. Humanity banged galleys fo, like, thousand years with no change.

But they still effected war.

The Norman Conquest is a good example and one of the major string of successes William had was Harold sending his fleet from guarding the southern coast to rest in the Thames estuary. Had he met an opposing fleet things would have changed regardless of what that might have been, and who knows what condition his force would have been in if they'd still been able to land in England.

Had Harold been more of a mind to play a delayed action, if only to allow himself to regather the majority of the fyrd he'd disbanded before he moved north to York rather than charge back down to Southern England and attack William, the navy could have played another role allowing the English to cut and isolate William where ever he was. Whether he pushed on into England or remained stuck by the coast, he remained vulnerable to being cut off and isolated in enemy territory, something that would not exist if his fleet was 100% free of harm always ready to run back to and reboard.

As it stands, everyone is in a better position than William because even the AI is safe from harm allowing everyone to invade coasts on a whim. In CK2 that might be ok if it wasn't for how easy it is to build a fleet of ships to transport you around as well as the drive to try to simulate raiding, meaning that small flotillas of raiders can't be cock blocked either.

I think this is running into a huge problem with Paradox games in general: The sea regions are too massive and should be as broken up and small as the land ones (or smaller) to allow the games to show how groups of ships, even huge fleets, could hide in the vastness of the sea, but were still constrained by geography and things like wind that produced natural choke points where battles were likely. That would work if only to force the player and AI to break up their doomstack fleets and use small groups to scout, actually making full use of their lighter, faster ships in other games. (I don't know how HoE4 works as I've given up on PD games post CK2 and will only try future ones out once it's clear they're an improvement rather than a slow, tepid degeneration they've been even with CK2 and how simplistic it is.

The sad thing is, it seems Paradox has no interest in doing that and only seems to reluctantly do shit with Hearts of Iron because the naval aspect plays such a larger expected role.

 

[Axioms]

I have to say CK3 is gonna be mediocre but it isn't going to be trash. The Dynasty stuff, the system similar to Secrets from Axioms, etc. They are doing a better than expected job and still lack any real competition. This will likely not be trash like Imperator.

 

[LizardWizard]

naval combats

Paradox hasn't proven they can do Naval effectively in any of their games, which is why it's weird that people are begging for it in a game like CK where it's only going to make the AI exponentially worse than it already is.

Though it seems with Merchant Republics being reworked and probably re-DLC'd I can see them implementing some type of minimalist blockade/transport type mechanics to sell it But the people that want EU pop-a-mole naval 'herp derp I'm so good I tricked the AI into a stack wipe' battles: fuck off

 

[Beastro]

But the people that want EU pop-a-mole naval 'herp derp I'm so good I tricked the AI into a stack wipe' battles: fuck off

That's the gist of what I ended my previous post about. They don't want to go to the effort to make it work properly and it fucks up so many eras making me increasingly give up on many of their games because I like naval warfare.

 

[LizardWizard]

I like naval warfare too, I'm just not expecting it from fucking Paradox Development Studio or in the second sequel to Crusader Kings 1, which I thoroughly enjoyed for what it was.

 

[mondblut]

So what is Renown?

Fuhrer mana.

 

[Nahel]

The fact that spendor cant be lost is decline. Fucking up should lower dynasty prestige.

 

[Jonathan "Zee Nekomimi]

...Like what happened with Victoria 2.
Their older games only had one paid patch each max and they felt much more finished on release. EU2 was so good that it didn't even need a paid patch at all.

Man i still waiting to this day for the "beta" patch to be implemented in the main game (One of the original devs did a patch on his on long after paradox abandoned the game that fixed alot of things).

 

[Tigranes]

The default expectation is that new Paradox is on the decline and that a success like CK2 is difficult to follow up on even the best of times.

The concrete info in that DD itself sounds great, though, very welcome.

 

[what am i doing]

...Like what happened with Victoria 2.
Their older games only had one paid patch each max and they felt much more finished on release. EU2 was so good that it didn't even need a paid patch at all.

Man i still waiting to this day for the "beta" patch to be implemented in the main game (One of the original devs did a patch on his on long after paradox abandoned the game that fixed alot of things).

I am disappointed he wasn't able to implement the "puppet shares overlord's map colour" feature from Stellaris into V2. I want to be able to map paint without direct annexation. Or do things like grant partial autonomy when forming the Danubian Federation while still retaining the same map footprint with my puppets. One of my few grievances with Vicky 2.

 

[LizardWizard]

The default expectation is that new Paradox is on the decline and that a success like CK2 is difficult to follow up on even the best of times.

The concrete info in that DD itself sounds great, though, very welcome.

Still being made by the guy that actually made CK2 even happen. It's been in development long before the Imperator dev cycle even began and Johan isn't really involved in CK3 at all.

Other than the bland UI, the mechanic improvements seem promising. From what we've seen there is at least some optimism to be had. I don't see PDS blundering one of their highest grossing IPs.