Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Häyhä]

If Cyberpunk is a genre that's invented today the whole Codex and rightards will mock it for having modern gender concept with all the transhumanism and cybernetic stuffs.

The only reason it is acceptable (barely) now is the fact that it is an old genre and we can't mock them. After all, it is the new thing that is problematic.

Lol Codex.

I can't help but laugh at some of the bozos here who don't realise that the entire genre and literature movement of "cyberpunk" was created by very liberal-left college progressives as an antithesis to traditional science-fiction literature that young writers like Gibson, Sterling etc. resented as too conservative.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The Codex conservtard just doesn't want to admit that they are just the same political snowflake, just on opposite political spectrum, like most SJW are

I can understand raging about it in medieval settings. Something like Crusaders King 3, you want to rage about trans there? Please do so. It is a historical game after all.

Complaining about sexuality in cyberunk is insane. It is part of the setting. And within the setting, it is a norm not "degeneracy". You can argue/discuss in-settings about how society would move to that point. Maybe you can argue about that in a transition period of normal to late-stage cyberpunk society. It would be interesting to discuss.

But crying "Mom, there are trannies in my game and the dev are not treating them as a joke or degenerate. They even support them. WAH WAH"?

 

[Dexter]

Said this before, but unlike Siege of Dragonspear or whatever a strong portrayal of deviant gerbil fuckers actually makes a ton of sense for Cyberpunk's setting. There's gonna be some tranny in the game with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon and you guys are gonna freak the fuck out but it makes perfect sense for the world they created and I'm gonna get a kick out of it. Putting all political crusades aside... the religious nutters and the men's rights dudes and white nationalists blah blah blah... it makes sense for the Cyberpunk world to be the harem of deviancy you fear.

I'm pretty sure we've been over this before including in this very thread for what feels like several times now:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-for-all-to-enjoy.122398/page-64#post-5731387
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ut-cyberpunk-2077.128065/page-12#post-6179993

If you look at your favorite Cyberpunk movie, game or even broad setting we know that the first thing on people's minds when talking about say Blade Runner, RoboCop or Deus Ex isn't "deviant gerbil fuckers" or "tranny with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon", in fact I doubt that's even Top100 or 1000.

If you're honest with yourself you know that the interesting parts are about future Sci-Fi Dystopias with the world or parts of it being taken over by Megacorps like Tyrell Corporation, Omni Consumer Products, Cyberdyne Systems, Weyland-Yutani Corporation etc. that would usher in the robotic apocalypse, synthetic humans and AI overlords (maybe space ships and some alien invasions), but we'd at least have flying cars, personal robots, holographic waifus and cybernetic enhancements and for some reason the weather of the English countryside and near-constant night due to pollution.

A setting without m(any) of the aforementioned things isn't really Cyberpunk and most of them didn't and wouldn't much suffer from the lack of "deviant gerbil fuckers" or "trannies with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon". Far be it from me to denigrate the important sociopolitical message the inclusion of such would make, which are apparently considered integral and essential to the Cyberpunk setting by some here, but everybody who's honest with themselves and others knows the intent behind these things and the past and current constant questioning about them from outlets like Polygon, RPS and Kotaku is for political purposes and what they consider "normalization" and different from "just good fun" entertainment value and wouldn't have played a role or had even been mentioned mere 10-15 years ago.

If such topics were included in some settings it was usually for comedic effect or as the butt of a joke:

Not for "positive representation and acceptance" reasons or celebration of such as CDProjekt has been telling us, but we all know said groups would yell bloody murder if that happened in any way they'd consider "offensive" and the noises we've heard coming from the development team have been largely appeasatory.

“This is all to show that [much like in our modern world], hypersexualization in advertisements is just terrible,” Redesiuk continued. “It was a conscious choice on our end to show that in this world — a world where you are a cyberpunk, a person fighting against corporations. That [advertisement] is what you’re fighting against.”

I asked Redesiuk what she would say to those in the trans community who might be offended to see themselves portrayed this way in the game.

“I would say it was never the intention to offend anyone,” Redesiuk said. “However, with this image of an oversexualized person, we did want to show how oversexualization of people is bad. And that’s it.

For Redesiuk, the fictional advertisement is also an effort to increase empathy for the LGBTQ community among video game consumers.

“We need it,” Redesiuk said. “I honestly think we need it because we need more acceptance in the world, and we need to also show how the goodness of people is sometimes used against them. And I would really love for the world to change and be a better place for everyone.”

The reveal of a gang protecting "sex workers" named after a real-life Axe Murderer-cum-Feminist icon is just the latest example.

We'll see soon enough on which end of the spectrum Cyberpunk 2077 lands. But the longer they delay and more I see and hear from and about the people involved, the lower my desire to play it sinks, it went from "HYPE! HYPE! HYPE! WANT RIGHT NOW!" to "Pre-Order 2 Copies (Retail/Digital) When Available!" to "Day1 Purchase!" to "Wait and See and maybe get after release when it's a bit cheaper if there's not too much Bullshit" and it still has a long way that it can fall.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Lacrymas, this discussion might be of interest to you.

 

[Danikas]

Some autist created 3d model of the city based on released maps judge the size of it by yourself.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mo...90a0/Night-City-3D-model-Cyberpunk-2077?hl=en

 

[ERYFKRAD]

trannies with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon

What the hell man, that's excessively specific.

 

[Dexter]

What the hell man, that's excessively specific.

a strong portrayal of deviant gerbil fuckers [...] There's gonna be some tranny in the game with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon [...] and I'm gonna get a kick out of it.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

What the hell man, that's excessively specific.

a strong portrayal of deviant gerbil fuckers [...] There's gonna be some tranny in the game with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon [...] and I'm gonna get a kick out of it.

DalekFlay what the hell man.

 

[DalekFlay]

Said this before, but unlike Siege of Dragonspear or whatever a strong portrayal of deviant gerbil fuckers actually makes a ton of sense for Cyberpunk's setting. There's gonna be some tranny in the game with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon and you guys are gonna freak the fuck out but it makes perfect sense for the world they created and I'm gonna get a kick out of it. Putting all political crusades aside... the religious nutters and the men's rights dudes and white nationalists blah blah blah... it makes sense for the Cyberpunk world to be the harem of deviancy you fear.

I'm pretty sure we've been over this before including in this very thread for what feels like several times now:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-for-all-to-enjoy.122398/page-64#post-5731387
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ut-cyberpunk-2077.128065/page-12#post-6179993

If you look at your favorite Cyberpunk movie, game or even broad setting we know that the first thing on people's minds when talking about say Blade Runner, RoboCop or Deus Ex isn't "deviant gerbil fuckers" or "tranny with a mechanical dick that glows pure blue neon", in fact I doubt that's even Top100 or 1000.

I kind of toned out at this point because most of your examples don't cover the same extensive body modification themes that Cyberpunk does and will. Deus Ex is the closest, especially Human Revolution, but they were more near-future and less eccentric about body modification. If you don't think trannys getting cyber-cocks is relevant to a story about people modifying their bodies in a godless future then okay I guess, but I definitely disagree. Also I never think bringing up these kinds of things is wrong at all, trannys do exist and it's a thing we can debate and confront. I like confronting social issues in RPGs. It's how they handle it that makes many "SJWs" annoying, i.e. dictating the response and vilifying people for disagreeing.

 

[Häyhä]

I hope they incorporate anime elf waifus into the game :D

 

[Zer0wing]

I don't think they'll go this far, implement vast selection of exotics.

 

[Alexios]

The Codex conservtard just doesn't want to admit that they are just the same political snowflake, just on opposite political spectrum, like most SJW are

I can understand raging about it in medieval settings. Something like Crusaders King 3, you want to rage about trans there? Please do so. It is a historical game after all.

Complaining about sexuality in cyberunk is insane. It is part of the setting. And within the setting, it is a norm not "degeneracy". You can argue/discuss in-settings about how society would move to that point. Maybe you can argue about that in a transition period of normal to late-stage cyberpunk society. It would be interesting to discuss.

But crying "Mom, there are trannies in my game and the dev are not treating them as a joke or degenerate. They even support them. WAH WAH"?

The actual issue is that it's clear CDPR is just putting all this garbage into the game to show how woke and progressive they are, much like the creators of Bloodlines 2. There are ways to weave "degenerate" things into a game or similar medium while making it a meaningful part of the story. This isn't one of them. It's particularly bad where, like here, the gameplay looks like complete garbage and there is nothing noteworthy or interesting about the game.

But please, continue to make up excuses for why people should be excited about this dumpster fire that has been in development for over 7 years.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

At this point, I'd be more interested in another Shadowrun Returns campaign.

 

[DalekFlay]

The actual issue is that it's clear CDPR is just putting all this garbage into the game to show how woke and progressive they are, much like the creators of Bloodlines 2. There are ways to weave "degenerate" things into a game or similar medium while making it a meaningful part of the story. This isn't one of them. It's particularly bad where, like here, the gameplay looks like complete garbage and there is nothing noteworthy or interesting about the game.

Both games have settings and themes where gays and trannies make sense. Battlefield 2 or whatever having female front line soldiers did NOT make sense at all, which is why it was so retarded. If you can't see the fucking difference then I think you're just as blinded by your social war as Dice was.

 

[Alexios]

The actual issue is that it's clear CDPR is just putting all this garbage into the game to show how woke and progressive they are, much like the creators of Bloodlines 2. There are ways to weave "degenerate" things into a game or similar medium while making it a meaningful part of the story. This isn't one of them. It's particularly bad where, like here, the gameplay looks like complete garbage and there is nothing noteworthy or interesting about the game.

Both games have settings and themes where gays and trannies make sense. Battlefield 2 or whatever having female front line soldiers did NOT make sense at all, which is why it was so retarded. If you can't see the fucking difference then I think you're just as blinded by your social war as Dice was.

They're virtually equivalent because they've both been put in the game SOLELY so the company can show how woke it is, which was the entire point I was making. They could have trannies and empowered hookers in a way that accomplishes something other than "Look, we put something woke in our game, please have pity on us, oh SJW gods." You can't sit here and tell me that if this game came out 10 years ago CDPR would have done this.

 

[DeepOcean]

Well guise, I think you should actually read Cyperpunk 2020, as Shadowrun, it has all sorts of shit that dont make any sense if you stop one second to think about it, the creators of those cyperpunk settings are mainly liberal nerd guys that never shot a guy on their lives, have a extremely idealized vision of ghetto life (in part because of their fantasies of being a bad ass criminal and in part for their political leanings) and dont know which end of a gun the bullet comes from, of course they wrote shit that doesnt make any sense that is more "cool" on a style sort of way than something that would actually be realist. you are shocked for something that was already retarded 40 years ago.

If they were realist, you would be some poor schmuck pushing drugs on a street corner, praying some dude doesnt want to kill you to take your place. You playing as a "free spirit" mercenary is just a power fantasy, any serious discussion or any serious intellectual explorations of cyberpunk is confined to literature and even there, the situation is just a regurgitation of cliches since the 80's with very few works really standing out and doing something serious.

If you guys expect anything serious or smart from this game, you are really overestimating CDProjekt, that ship sailed for cyberpunk a LONG time ago, be happy if the writing is competent enough to not make your eyes bleed and you dont go insane with the inanity. I look towards this game as a GTA game with actual gameplay (the combat looks like shit, but hey, it is better than GTA still, at least you wont die if you turn on the wrong corner), I dont expect more than that.

 

[mogwaimon]

The actual issue is that it's clear CDPR is just putting all this garbage into the game to show how woke and progressive they are, much like the creators of Bloodlines 2. There are ways to weave "degenerate" things into a game or similar medium while making it a meaningful part of the story. This isn't one of them. It's particularly bad where, like here, the gameplay looks like complete garbage and there is nothing noteworthy or interesting about the game.

Both games have settings and themes where gays and trannies make sense. Battlefield 2 or whatever having female front line soldiers did NOT make sense at all, which is why it was so retarded. If you can't see the fucking difference then I think you're just as blinded by your social war as Dice was.

I think the problem most people have with certain agendas being pushed in media nowadays isn't that the agendas themselves are being pushed at all; we expect works of fiction to have themes and dilemmas which may have analogues with reality even if we don't necessarily agree with what is written. That's fine in and of itself. The issue is that, more often than not, the writers exploring these avenues in modern times often do so with all the subtlety and nuance of a man with a hammer running down the street bashing in the heads of everyone he encounters. Like the infamous Siege of Dragonspear NPC, for instance. If there were a gender-fluid guy running around and acting like a regular person who just so happens to prefer drinking a potion of gender change +1 every so often, I don't think many people would have had an issue with it. We've all seen much odder character concepts being explored. But they had the NPC act like a mouthpiece and shove his genderfluidity in your face as if to say, 'Look at me! I exist! This is the most important thing about me, aren't I special!?' and that was it. It was a character that solely existed to push an agenda, and wherever you fall in terms of your opinion on said agenda, characters that have no narrative purpose beyond that ultimately make for a weaker story and in some cases actively hurt it.

 

[Häyhä]

Well guise, I think you should actually read Cyperpunk 2020, as Shadowrun, it has all sorts of shit that dont make any sense if you stop one second to think about it, the creators of those cyperpunk settings are mainly liberal nerd guys that never shot a guy on their lives, have a extremely idealized vision of ghetto life (in part because of their fantasies of being a bad ass criminal and in part for their political leanings) and dont know which end of a gun the bullet comes from, of course they wrote shit that doesnt make any sense that is more "cool" on a style sort of way than something that would actually be realist. you are shocked for something that was already retarded 40 years ago.

This isn't really true when it comes to Mike Pondsmith, the creator of Cyberpunk. He grew up in a military family, abroad in Air Force bases. He's also a gun owner/shooter if I remember correctly.

If they were realist, you would be some poor schmuck pushing drugs on a street corner, praying some dude doesnt want to kill you to take your place. You playing as a "free spirit" mercenary is just a power fantasy, any serious discussion or any serious intellectual explorations of cyberpunk is confined to literature and even there, the situation is just a regurgitation of cliches since the 80's with very few works really standing out and doing something serious.

To be fair, CP2020 allows either gameplay style and the setting is inherently gritty, dangerous, dirty and desperate. The game also provides tools and equipment for power gaming fantasies, but that isn't really the game's fault, like most roleplaying games, it's up to the GM and the players themselves to handle the subject matter. Obviously quite a lot of players were very young when they first played Cyberpunk (myself included) so a lot of the games tended to go into the juvenile power fantasy territory and because that was what roleplaying games (like D&D) where like back in the day, get better loot and become more powerful.

 

[Dexter]

I kind of toned out at this point because most of your examples don't cover the same extensive body modification themes that Cyberpunk does and will. Deus Ex is the closest, especially Human Revolution, but they were more near-future and less eccentric about body modification. If you don't think trannys getting cyber-cocks is relevant to a story about people modifying their bodies in a godless future then okay I guess, but I definitely disagree. Also I never think bringing up these kinds of things is wrong at all, trannys do exist and it's a thing we can debate and confront. I like confronting social issues in RPGs. It's how they handle it that makes many "SJWs" annoying, i.e. dictating the response and vilifying people for disagreeing.

I don't want my entertainment to be "edutainment" in disguise and "confront social issues" or "debate and confront" anything from the real world preferably other than issues contained within the narrative, social order and character/faction interactions of the game world. Much less do I want it to take positions on controversial CURRENT YEAR social issues or lecture me about mental illness, green policies, immigration policy, gay marriage, abortion or whatever.

I'm not going to change my mind and my sociopolitical beliefs because some shithead at a game company wrote his wonderful quest or character dialogue he's so proud of and if we're honest it's not going to be particularly insightful or interesting in the first place. It's just gonna make me annoyed or cringe in the best of cases, even if I happen to agree with whatever point it's trying to make a little too heavy handed, and potentially piss me off to the point that I'm pondering why I wasted money and time on this shit I was supposed to enjoy and relax to in my free time or consider not to buy it in the first place if it's already obvious.

Taking this to an extreme you get Soviet cinema where almost everything "debated" the wonders of Socialism and "confronted" Worker's rights and the evil West leading to some absolutely miserable and worthless entertainment bar few exceptions. Or if you like the analogy better consider message fiction entertainment created to specifically push religious values and doctrine, usually to a similar effect.

This is essentially the same thing I said in the post in your quote from back in 2018 btw.:

Counter-point, you're developing a FPS/RPG-hybrid about shooting people in the head in a Sci-Fi setting, a commercial product that you're trying to sell to millions of people to amuse them and there ain't going to be political ideologies sprouting out of it, nor are you going to change anyone's mind with your spectacular quest design of whether the player decided to shoot NPC A or B in the head in order to complete Quest C. Try concentrating on making it fun and writing good and believable characters and an engaging story while keeping verisimilitude in mind instead of trying to make political statements. Why do Poles need to import Americans like this guy as quest designers for their franchises again in the first place?

Both games have settings and themes where gays and trannies make sense. Battlefield 2 or whatever having female front line soldiers did NOT make sense at all, which is why it was so retarded.

They don't "make any more sense" than they would have in Blade Runner, RoboCop, Alien or any other similar setting when Twatter wasn't around for people to yell about it, yet they mostly managed without. It was "Battlefield V" btw. Battlefield 2 is the good old and possibly best one from 2005. It was set two years later in a fictional World War 3 scenario between US/EU/UK and China/Russia/Middle East Coalition which didn't really play any role in the game and was only window dressing, since it didn't have a campaign and had no narrative to speak of other than the big 32v32 player battles. Having your thematic scenes or lectures trigger at some point on the map would have made only a little less sense than it does now, yet they chose not to do it and concentrated on developing a good game that was better off for it, generally well received and enjoyed by everyone.

 

[Zer0wing]

At this point, I'd be more interested in another Shadowrun Returns campaign.

I'd rather have romhacks for another campains in open-ended Shadowrun on sega genesis. That was an essense of Shadowrun gameplay. SR is alright (but cheap in not the best kind of word), other games are great but it's just a story, it doesn't have open-ended gameplay and so, doesn't let you be a cyberpunk and part of this world fully.

 

[Alexios]

So the consensus is that cyberpunk as a genre has always been gay and cringe and that no one should have ever expected anything from this game, from day 1?

 

[Zer0wing]

So the consensus is that cyberpunk as a genre has always been gay and cringe and that no one should have ever expected anything from this game, from day 1?

More or less. Not as a genre, as an homonymous P&P.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

At this point, I'd be more interested in another Shadowrun Returns campaign.

You don't know it, but you are waiting for Cyber Knights to release.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

So the consensus is that cyberpunk as a genre has always been gay and cringe and that no one should have ever expected anything from this game, from day 1?

Or you know enjoy the genre for what it is. But you are welcome to be a political snowflake because there are trannies in your game and you can't stand it like Kotaku wanting black people and LGBT in a medieval game

Codex when talking about normal fantasy and historical game: REEE NOT ENOUGH GOOD WORL BUILDING AND SOCIETY BUILDING. WHERE IS MY DEUS VULT WAH WAH

Codex when talking about cyberpunk: JUST FOCUS ON WHAT I LIKE, DON'T PUT TRANNIES THERE I DON'T CARE ABOUT IT. IT HURTS MY CHRISTIAN SOUL WAH

 

[DalekFlay]

I think the problem most people have with certain agendas being pushed in media nowadays isn't that the agendas themselves are being pushed at all; we expect works of fiction to have themes and dilemmas which may have analogues with reality even if we don't necessarily agree with what is written. That's fine in and of itself. The issue is that, more often than not, the writers exploring these avenues in modern times often do so with all the subtlety and nuance of a man with a hammer running down the street bashing in the heads of everyone he encounters. Like the infamous Siege of Dragonspear NPC, for instance. If there were a gender-fluid guy running around and acting like a regular person who just so happens to prefer drinking a potion of gender change +1 every so often, I don't think many people would have had an issue with it. We've all seen much odder character concepts being explored. But they had the NPC act like a mouthpiece and shove his genderfluidity in your face as if to say, 'Look at me! I exist! This is the most important thing about me, aren't I special!?' and that was it. It was a character that solely existed to push an agenda, and wherever you fall in terms of your opinion on said agenda, characters that have no narrative purpose beyond that ultimately make for a weaker story and in some cases actively hurt it.

Yes, and I hate that stuff too. When I see moments like that... the "female power!" moment in Avengers 4 for example, or every man in Outer Worlds being a retard held up by the women around him... I roll my eyes massively. If Cyberpunk has moments like that, I will join you in mocking them, but we don't know if it will yet. Standard diversity PR in the year 2020 and hiring some women doesn't prove shit either way, and people sound like whiny cunts when they cry about it over and over. You cannot deny there are many who want all this stuff purged from their games, and are just as bad as the "SJWs" they hate when it comes to rejecting and whining about anyone who disagrees with them. It's like the goth kids in high school who screamed about the evils of conformity constantly and then made sure they all dressed the same and listened to the same music. I don't like whiny bitches and sheep on either side.

I don't want my entertainment to be "edutainment" in disguise and "confront social issues" or "debate and confront" anything from the real world preferably other than issues contained within the narrative, social order and character/faction interactions of the game world. Much less do I want it to take positions on controversial CURRENT YEAR social issues or lecture me about mental illness, green policies, immigration policy, gay marriage, abortion or whatever.

Then you're an idiot because most great art has a political or social message in it, some are just more well done than others. I want Cyberpunk's messages to be well done, not absent.