Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Terenty]

Tell me one thing - do NPCs still walk blindly and bump into the PC if he stands still on the street? This annoyed me to no end in Witcher 3, and in GTA V they had managed to solve it somehow, NPCs would navigate around the PC. If it's still like that in CP77 I will lol hard.

I don't know man, but if the day 1 patch doesn't actually fill out the world with meaningful content it's gonna be hilarious.

Didn't Witcher 3 had npc in the wild that you could interact with and take quests? Here the only quests you can get are from "fixers" that call you and give you some generic ass tasks.

 

[Blaine]

The police would probably open fire on a rampaging psycho on the way to a high score because even a shitty city needs some minimal stability.

Within the city itself, yes, but not out in the middle of the desert where there are no salarymen or swanks to witness the mayhem.

The issue is more how they spawn out of thin air, probably based on a wanted level since punching the T-poser was enough to spawn a full squad.

Yeah, well, actually simulating the communications capability, surveillance capability, and logistics of the police would require effort and skill.

Here the only quests you can get are from "fixers" that call you and give you some generic ass tasks.

And then they sit there in the quest queue, forever, obediently waiting for you to pursue them at your leisure real hours or days later.

 

[taxalot]

https://streamable.com/i0qz73

 

[oneself]

A combination of shot scatter (accuracy randomization) and armor/damage type penetration/resistance would be best.

Still leads to meme'y point-blank bullet-sponge clips.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I guess he means purely in terms of open world vs levelled enemies. But here is a question - if in your open world RPG with no scaling you would stand zero chance as soon as you are out of the area you are supposed to be in, is it really an open world game, or is it a guided tour like in Disney World?

I wouldn't call Gothic 1 "a guided tour like in Disney World". Just because you can pick a fight with someone who outclasses you doesn't mean you should. If anything, this was one of the Gothic series strong points: the world not really giving a fuck about you being The Chosen One (aka the player), which was made even more painful by NPCs robbing you as you were laying helpless on the ground.

Conversely, if in your open world RPG with level-scaling you can skip directly to the big boss fight, and the story allows it, does the RPG progression really matter or is it just token stuff?

That's why I am a strong proponent of combat being a dangerous affair (and, in effect, funneling players into using others means than combat alone to accomplish their objectives). There is also a question of believability - how realistic it is for some no-name to bypass everyone and reach the big boss? Especially when the player character is not skilled in pretty much anything? To me it's obvious he'll fail somewhere down the road. And that doesn't even touch the question of player KNOWING who the big boss even is and where he is located.

Yeah, so instead of

- RPG where your combat stats matter
- non-bullet sponge enemies

the equation has more variables

- open world / hub-based
- scaling / static levels of enemies and loot
- complex main story drives player progression throughout the world areas / simple main story "kill the big bad when you are ready" or sandbox
- combat skills are required / full pacifist/diplomat, full stealth routes are viable

Just because you can pick a fight with someone who outclasses you doesn't mean you should.

Most RPG quests require the player to be at a certain location to progress, and there are some obstacles in the way. They usually come in the form of hostile NPCs. That was the scenario I was thinking of. Of course, there may be multiple ways to get through them besides combat, but in a game where you play a Cyberpunk Solo, and where players expect to get their feet wet with combat within the first hour of gameplay, you know what to expect.

 

[toro]

Edit: Also don't like how male V talks to people. This is worse than Fallout 4 almost in that regard.

Day 200 patch will fix it.

fixed

 

[Zer0wing]

https://streamable.com/i0qz73

Nothing gamebreaking to see here, relax.

 

[toro]

what it rather says is that you can send any shit to journos because you know they will gobble it all up with 10/10s and ignore the glaring issues

I reckon anyone with an iq of above 80 realizes that good reviews are quite literally paid for. Has been a common and well known fact ever since the Kane & Lynch debacle.

Kane & Lynch were fun.

 

[oneself]

https://streamable.com/i0qz73

Must be that last-stand perk. INCLINE!

 

[J_C]

I'm watching the second stream right now.

Everybody is hostile in this game it seems. The guy is just exploring the desert, there's absolutely nothing of worth there expect some mobs with skulls here and there with whom you can't interact in any other way than shoot and be killed of course.

He found a couple of cadavers lying around with over leveled equipment and met a chick nearby some car that only repeated some generic lines.

Even in Rdr 2 you could interact with people, either antagonize or greet, and could actually talk to bandits too.

I guess it's too much to ask from a hardcore rpg in 2020

I'm thinking RDR2 is going to spoil CP2077 for me. It felt like Rockstar made that game with no compromises to their potential audience while CP2077 devs have been hyper-attentive to what the consoomers expect.

RDR2 is a marvel from a technical standpoint, and CP is very far from it in this regards. However, the underlaying mechanics of RDR2 are laughable, so CP will probably have the upper hand there.

 

[FranticDistortion]

And then they sit there in the quest queue, forever, obediently waiting for you to pursue them at your leisure real hours or days later.

Are you suggesting time limits for quests?

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

CD Projekt devs leaving the studio after months of crunch and releasing a subpar game

 

[purupuru]

Argh...So there is gonna be forced driving quests like GTA?
Maybe I should cancel preorder after all.

 

[oneself]

- RPG where your combat stats matter
- non-bullet sponge enemies

the equation has more variables

- open world / hub-based
- scaling / static levels of enemies and loot
- complex main story drives player progression throughout the world areas / simple main story "kill the big bad when you are ready" or sandbox
- combat skills are required / full pacifist/diplomat, full stealth routes are viable

Is it a RPG if there are no combat related stats? is disco elysium a RPG?

 

[Harthwain]

Most RPG quests require the player to be at a certain location to progress, and there are some obstacles in the way. They usually come in the form of hostile NPCs. That was the scenario I was thinking of. Of course, they may be multiple ways to get through them besides combat, but in a game where you play a Cyberpunk Solo, and where players expect to get their feet wet with combat within the first hour of gameplay, you know what to expect.

That's a problem because they restricted players in a single-player game to three classes (well, a single class with three specializations is more accurate description). Another problem is they decided to make a non-stylized FPS, which in itself takes a lot of resources for very little gain (RPG-wise). Then there is the matter of hand-crafting everything, rather than doing a simulation.

So it all boils down to game design. Potential for a great cRPG was limitless.

Is it an RPG if there are no combat related stats? is disco elysium an RPG?

Try to punch or shoot someone without having skills for it in Disco.

 

[Alexios]

I'm getting major Fallout 4 vibes from all this. So much hype, all for it to be a terrible, quickly forgotten piece of shit after release. Perhaps they shouldn't have announced the game 8 fucking years ago despite only actually working on it for what, the last five years? Five years isn't all that much time to make a big ambitious game. Clearly they could have used an extra 2 or 3 years but that wasn't an option because they announced it so retardedly early.

At least now we know those rumors a few years ago about this being in development hell were true.

 

[Justicar]

CD Projekt devs leaving the studio after months of crunch and releasing a subpar game

 

[AwesomeButton]

- RPG where your combat stats matter
- non-bullet sponge enemies

the equation has more variables

- open world / hub-based
- scaling / static levels of enemies and loot
- complex main story drives player progression throughout the world areas / simple main story "kill the big bad when you are ready" or sandbox
- combat skills are required / full pacifist/diplomat, full stealth routes are viable

Is it an RPG if there are no combat related stats? is disco elysium an RPG?

There are combat-related stats in Disco, but Disco takes to the extreme what Hartwain called "combat being a dangerous affair". The better argument against Disco being an RPG is that there is no real fail state, only degrees of being successful, or in story terms - degrees of being a failed human being and a failed cop. If Disco Elysium ever gets finished one day we may see an actual fail state. What they released was something like a first chapter. They intended to have multiple areas of the city accessible.

 

[oneself]

Most RPG quests require the player to be at a certain location to progress, and there are some obstacles in the way. They usually come in the form of hostile NPCs. That was the scenario I was thinking of. Of course, they may be multiple ways to get through them besides combat, but in a game where you play a Cyberpunk Solo, and where players expect to get their feet wet with combat within the first hour of gameplay, you know what to expect.

That's a problem because they restricted players in a single-player game to three classes (well, a single class with three specializations is more accurate description). Another problem is they decided to make a non-stylized FPS, which in itself takes a lot of resources for very little gain (RPG-wise). Then there is the matter of hand-crafting everything, rather than doing a simulation.

So it all boils down to game design. Potential for a great cRPG was limitless.

Is it an RPG if there are no combat related stats? is disco elysium an RPG?

Try to punch or shoot someone without having skills for it in Disco.

I did.

GOD IN MUH CORNA A NIGGA CAN'T LOSE

 

[Justicar]

I preloaded it grognards my friend gave me his gog account with the game cause he is too busy to play it this week will find out how it is in 2 days.

 

[purupuru]

The better argument against Disco being an RPG is that there is no real fail state, only degrees of being successful, or in story terms - degrees of being a failed human being and a failed cop.

I'm not sure I follow? There are gameovers and you can literally die.

 

[Hellraiser]

A combination of shot scatter (accuracy randomization) and armor/damage type penetration/resistance would be best.

Still leads to meme'y point-blank bullet-sponge clips.

Obviously I was writing about a hypothetical system where enemy HP is not bloated compared to damage done by weapons. Up close whoever shoots first or gets the drop on the opponent wins, and this could be enabled or made easier through stats/skills/perks (stealth, crowd control abilities etc.). At range accuracy counts, this gives you more build options and approaches to combat.

Ideally you would need a 3-7 hits in before the guy should drop, or get one good hit in and wait for him to go into shock from bloodloss. An accurate automatic fire burst penetrating armor should be fucking lethal to anything that is not ridiculously fully armored (and more machine than man). Armored opponent should require special weapons, tactics or skills. Emptying whole magazines should never be the only solution to a combat encounter.

 

[Blaine]

Are you suggesting time limits for quests?

Why yes, 2020, I am. That's because consolized, casual, popamole-style "do it whenever you feel like it" quests are completely inappropriate to the setting and source material—with which you are clearly not familiar, else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

When a rich man needs a deniable operative or strike team to extricate his spoiled brat of a daughter from the underground BDSM club where she's been using his credit card for the past week, for example, he's not going to want to wait while you tootle around picking flowers and eating hot dogs until you feel like doing the mission.

It's like you didn't even stop for five seconds to think this through. Your only thought is how frustrating it would be if a game actually challenged you by imposing sensible restrictions on your button-pressing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

That's a problem because they restricted players in a single-player game to three classes (well, a single class with three specializations is more accurate description). Another problem is they decided to make a non-stylized FPS, which in itself takes a lot of resources for very little gain (RPG-wise). Then there is the matter of hand-crafting everything, rather than doing a simulation.

Yeah, but why did they have to do it - because this limitation was forced on them by the story they wanted to tell.

So I go back to that "X or Y, you can only have one" statement from before. The more story-driven you are, the more the story eats into your freedom for character specialization. And when CDPR has to choose between story and character specialization, having made three RPGs with a fixed named PC with a backstory and all, it was obvious what they would choose. Devs' past record is the best indicator of their next game, and in CDPR's case with three successive games, it was a done deal. Witcher with guns.

The story C&C they put in their games is in a way their excuse and saving grace in the eyes of RPG players. So let's hope that's on a good level in CP77, which seems to be the case from what I hear so far, but I try to stay spoiler free.

 

[Slaver1]

I'm watching the second stream right now.

Everybody is hostile in this game it seems. The guy is just exploring the desert, there's absolutely nothing of worth there expect some mobs with skulls here and there with whom you can't interact in any other way than shoot and be killed of course.

He found a couple of cadavers lying around with over leveled equipment and met a chick nearby some car that only repeated some generic lines.

Even in Rdr 2 you could interact with people, either antagonize or greet, and could actually talk to bandits too.

I guess it's too much to ask from a hardcore rpg in 2020

I'm thinking RDR2 is going to spoil CP2077 for me. It felt like Rockstar made that game with no compromises to their potential audience while CP2077 devs have been hyper-attentive to what the consoomers expect.

RDR2 is a marvel from a technical standpoint, and CP is very far from it in this regards. However, the underlaying mechanics of RDR2 are laughable, so CP will probably have the upper hand there.

By mechanics you mean all the downtime just riding a horse to a popamole shoot-out and that's all there is? Maybe true but the characterization brings everything together so nicely that I don't mind the repetitive gameplay loops. If CP2077 has a million things to do but can't match the character writing of RDR2 I'd say CDPR got their priorities wrong, especially with all the Deux Ex talk.