D&D 5E Discussion

[Andhaira]

One thing I'm not liking much is the setting seems to be based in the Fourth Age (or during the War of the Ring). I liked a lot the 1640 Third Age stuff from the old Rolemaster setting, and I also liked to play closer to 1900 TA. The Kingdoms of the North falling apart to the Witch King, Gondor still being a superpower but then Minas Ithil falls, or even the Kin-Strife, civil war in Gondor. And I've always dreamt with playing a campaign on the First Age, but what a challenge that would be, for the storytelling to be trully consistent with the themes!

Fourth Age sounds ...tame compared to all the other possibilities. But maybe it's easier to reach the movie fans setting the game in that time :/

It's actually directly before the War of The Ring, which it says in the preview. The very last thing to happen before the RPG starts is Smaug's death and the battle of 5 armies.

New 5e version of LOTR rpg made by Cubicle 7, same guys who produce the current The One Ring RPG

Preview looks bretty good, and for once the D&D rules actually support this style of gameplay. Even then they are going with their own custom classes, and no spellcasting (unfortunately)

Now I really want to see the rules for travel, corruption, and downtime, because they look interesting.

They will be. Traveling is called Journeys and Downtime is called The Fellowship phase; the latter has tons of interesting and flavorful things in TOR, the same guys are making this so expect all that to be ported over and properly. C7 are one of the best at what they do (they also produce the new Lone Wolf Adventure game rpg) I never got around to actually playing TOR because despite the fantastic art and customized for middle earth system, I just didn't want to invest in a new ruleset at this time.

 

[DavidBVal]

One thing I'm not liking much is the setting seems to be based in the Fourth Age (or during the War of the Ring). I liked a lot the 1640 Third Age stuff from the old Rolemaster setting, and I also liked to play closer to 1900 TA. The Kingdoms of the North falling apart to the Witch King, Gondor still being a superpower but then Minas Ithil falls, or even the Kin-Strife, civil war in Gondor. And I've always dreamt with playing a campaign on the First Age, but what a challenge that would be, for the storytelling to be trully consistent with the themes!

Fourth Age sounds ...tame compared to all the other possibilities. But maybe it's easier to reach the movie fans setting the game in that time :/

Uhm, not it's not. Just read the preview. It's set in the same timeframe as TOR (The One Ring), a couple of years right after Bard slew Smaug; aka a few years after The Hobbit, and decades before the LOTR trilogy. Gandalf is still grey, the ring is with Bilbo, and Saruman the Wise still holds power in Isengard. The Balrog is also deep in Moria.

That is just a few years before the war of the ring. My point stands, the setting is (to my tastes), less interesting at that point than it was centuries, or a millenia before.

by TA 3010, you can count with one hand the known political bodies in all the north, and then there's a besieged Gondor and a weak Rohan. In 1700 TA there were the three weakened Dunedain kingdoms of the north, one of them had fallen to the Witch King at Carn Dum. There were northmen in the Anduin, including the precursors of the Rohirrim, which hunted dragons according to their legends. And there were hobbit-like people in the anduin as well. IMHO it has more chances for a richer setting, AND the stories you can weave are not so much constrained by the incoming LOTR events. You lose the Shire, true, but it's not like you can adventure much there.

 

[Lhynn]

What needs to come back and where i think DnD is failing is with guaranteed spells on level up. A wizard should get no new spells on level up, merely the spell slots. Thats the whole motivation for him to get out and see the world, why would you take it away with a stupid rule?

 

[Mystary!]

What needs to come back and where i think DnD is failing is with guaranteed spells on level up. A wizard should get no new spells on level up, merely the spell slots. Thats the whole motivation for him to get out and see the world, why would you take it away with a stupid rule?

Simple enough to fix with a house rule isn't it?

 

[Lhynn]

What needs to come back and where i think DnD is failing is with guaranteed spells on level up. A wizard should get no new spells on level up, merely the spell slots. Thats the whole motivation for him to get out and see the world, why would you take it away with a stupid rule?

Simple enough to fix with a house rule isn't it?

Aye, and i have at my table. Offensive cantrips are also a nono, they really take a lot away.

 

[Damned Registrations]

What needs to come back and where i think DnD is failing is with guaranteed spells on level up. A wizard should get no new spells on level up, merely the spell slots. Thats the whole motivation for him to get out and see the world, why would you take it away with a stupid rule?

I could see this making sense in a setting where magic is a sort of lost technology, but it would certainly take away from the traditional image of a wise old man studying in seclusion.

The real issue though, is that if the DM has complete control over your spellbook, being a wizard is a lot less fun. Not to mention the potential to be completely gimped because you specialized in spells the DM doesn't want you to have anyways.

 

[Spectacle]

Aye, and i have at my table. Offensive cantrips are also a nono, they really take a lot away.

What's the problem with offensive cantrips? Do you like sling and crossbow wielding wizards that much?
I hope you at least let warlocks have eldritch blast, or you might as well remove the class.

 

[DavidBVal]

I love lvl 1 crossbow wielding wizards, wondering if this is THE fight where they must cast THE sleep spell

 

[Caim]

I love lvl 1 crossbow wielding wizards, wondering if this is THE fight where they must cast THE sleep spell

That's the downside of playing a wizard at anything below, say, fifth level. You can't cast for shit.

 

[DavidBVal]

I love lvl 1 crossbow wielding wizards, wondering if this is THE fight where they must cast THE sleep spell

That's the downside of playing a wizard at anything below, say, fifth level. You can't cast for shit.

While that's true, it sometimes beats being the party meatshield with 13hp

 

[Arrowgrab]

Fourth Age sounds ...tame compared to all the other possibilities. But maybe it's easier to reach the movie fans setting the game in that time :/

Actually, there's a mod for Total War: Rome, titled Fourth Age: The Dominion of Men, and it pulls it off pretty decently. Gondor sort-of rebuilds the Arnor, but a few centuries later the Mouth of Sauron comes back in disguise and fucks everything up by inciting a civil war. The last groups of Elves are slowly packing up, the Dwarves have finally retaken Khazad-dum and largely keep to themselves, except for the alliance between the Lonely Mountain and Dale, which has become the power in the northeast. Easterlings are being their usual pesky selves, and Harad has finally rebounced and decides to rebuild its empire.

There is stuff to do in the Fourth Age, either relatively shortly after the end of the novel, or a few centuries down the line. Admittedly, it would make for a more human-centric game than any other option.

 

[Lhynn]

The real issue though, is that if the DM has complete control over your spellbook

Like he didnt already.

Not to mention the potential to be completely gimped because you specialized in spells the DM doesn't want you to have anyways.

You cant really specialize in spells as much as in schools, and youd still get the spell for tradition per level if you went that route.
Other than that, cast your level 1 spells at higher levels, its a class feature now.

That's the downside of playing a wizard at anything below, say, fifth level. You can't cast for shit.

Thats not a downside anymore tho. You are a machine on par with the rest from early on.

What's the problem with offensive cantrips?

Offensive cantrips make the mage a self reliant powerhouse from level one. You are never really vulnerable if you always have a gun loaded in your hands.
Any other class can easily be disarmed unless they have some sort of class feature that prevents it. And if they had to sacrifice a class feature spot for that, i want to make it worth their while.

Do you like sling and crossbow wielding wizards that much?

yes, but the reason is that i dislike anime/harry potter wizards.

I hope you at least let warlocks have eldritch blast, or you might as well remove the class.

Sure, warlocks get the blast and druids get shillelagh.

 

[DavidBVal]

Fourth Age sounds ...tame compared to all the other possibilities. But maybe it's easier to reach the movie fans setting the game in that time :/

Actually, there's a mod for Total War: Rome, titled Fourth Age: The Dominion of Men, and it pulls it off pretty decently. Gondor sort-of rebuilds the Arnor, but a few centuries later the Mouth of Sauron comes back in disguise and fucks everything up by inciting a civil war. The last groups of Elves are slowly packing up, the Dwarves have finally retaken Khazad-dum and largely keep to themselves, except for the alliance between the Lonely Mountain and Dale, which has become the power in the northeast. Easterlings are being their usual pesky selves, and Harad has finally rebounced and decides to rebuild its empire.

There is stuff to do in the Fourth Age, either relatively shortly after the end of the novel, or a few centuries down the line. Admittedly, it would make for a more human-centric game than any other option.

But that would still be Middle Earth?

Tolkien describes like 12000 years through three eras, some of them incredibly well suited for warfare, politics, and complex RPG campaigns with a rich world. Why corner yourself into the tiny end that is the LOTR years, or even worse, kick yourself out into a 4th age that was never written. That's my point. Not saying they can'tmake an excellent setting, but... it's middle earth, use the middle earth, right?

 

[Arrowgrab]

But that would still be Middle Earth?

It's still Middle Earth, assuming the DM knows how to put LotR's themes and sensibilities into the game, and that the players buy into it. In this respect, it doesn't matter when you set your game: if you can't pull it off, or if your players bring their beer'n'pretzels Bob the Fighter mentality from Ye Standarde D&D, then the whole thing will crash and burn, regardless of when it's set.

As long as the game takes place on the map of Middle Earth / Beleriand, the game's success hinges 90% on everyone involved getting it right, and 10% on when exactly it's set.

 

[Mystary!]

Thats not a downside anymore tho. You are a machine on par with the rest from early on
Offensive cantrips make the mage a self reliant powerhouse from level one. You are never really vulnerable if you always have a gun loaded in your hands.
Any other class can easily be disarmed unless they have some sort of class feature that prevents it. And if they had to sacrifice a class feature spot for that, i want to make it worth their while.

You can still literally disarm them *chop chop*

 

[DavidBVal]

I received the Middle-Earth player's guide PDF shortly ago, still begining to read it. Here's the classes chart:

 

[DavidBVal]

post info on the wanderer, and maybe the downtime rules pls.

Sure I will post about that, but I'm going through it slowly as I'm a bit busy with work.

What I've read already looks very good. Yesterday I read about the Shadow Points, it is a very good mechanics, as corruption is a recurring theme in Middle Earth. Remember when Gandalf tells them to pick just one dagger from the barrow treasure? Or all the mess caused by Smaug treasure? or the Palantir corrupting Saruman and Denethor? there's mechanics for how those things slowly corrupt you, and for things like crossing through blighted lands or being exposed to the Enemy's power, like Sam and Frodo did (or Turin in the Silmarillion). You become "miserable" when shadow points are more than your WIS score (a very bad new status in which you basically have disadvantage to everything, reminded me of poor gollum), until you have a meltdown like the one Boromir had, and then you gain a permanent shadow point and clean the temporary ones. Eventually you may lose your character. doesn't look like something that will happen easily, but it is a factor, and I think it'll be a roleplaying opportunity for good players.

Obviously the game removing magic will not appease the crazy powerbuilders, but this is a fine piece of roleplaying material. Reading more soon.

 

[Andhaira]

Are the Virtues like Feats? Can you give an example?

 

[DavidBVal]

Virtues: they're like Feats, but limited by your "culture", which replaces race. Humans pick one at level one, then you can choose one instead of trait advancement at level 4, etc.

They feel weaker mechanics-wise than regular 5e feats, although much cooler regarding roleplaying and character concept. However it is hard to gauge how important is a +1 to AC in a setting without plate.

A bardling virtue:

Fierce Shot

You have learnt to bend your bow so fiercely that you hear its string crack like a whip when it sends its arrows flying. When you use a great bow, your damage is increased by both your Dexterity modifier and half your Strength modifier, rounded down.

A dwarven one, and observe how well it fits into the Hobbit scenes:

Spells of Opening and Shutting

This fragment must be recited in front of a door or gate, to magically lock it, or recited backwards to open it if locked. The spell has no effect on a door that has been blocked by magic and now requires a particular word to open it. Attempts to break down the door have their DC increased by 10. The spell starts working as soon as you have finished reciting it.

Journey rules look very nice, even to a DM like me that likes to improvise and go by the feeling of it. There are several roles the players can choose: guide, scout, hunter or lookout. Imagine your party has no good hunter, this opens the possibility to look for one to hire, or everyone will starve. And there are several phases, for instance, preparation is one, then the journey itself, and arrival. Each character asuming a role must do different checks, and there is a table with possible encounters and effects, and a map with hexagons of all the middle earth to determine if they're difficult terrain, blighted, etc.. It definitely looks like a great way to make skills like Survival very useful. Again, very very tolkienesque.

Downtime: didn't have time to check yet, but among other things you can recover from the Shadow influence.

Wanderer: the ranger of the game, with good bonuses for journeys, and for the asociated exhaustion mechanics which I can't really gauge at this time.

The more I read the more impressed I am. It certainly takes a game like 5e with a low scale of power, and makes it even lower, so many people can find it boring I guess. But it is *really* a game system tailored to play the uniqueness and feel of Middle Earth. Can't wait to try it!

 

[tuluse]

This seems like some cool stuff, but I want original D&D settings, not Middle Earth

 

[Dedup]

I was never really interested in playing in the Middle Earth setting but I think this take on the 5ed rules has sold me on it. It seems that they've adapted the rules really well to the setting.

 

[DavidBVal]

This seems like some cool stuff, but I want original D&D settings, not Middle Earth

Your selfishnes grants you 1 Shadow Point

 

[nikolokolus]

This seems like some cool stuff, but I want original D&D settings, not Middle Earth

damn these third party developers for not developing materials they have no license to

I know nothing about 5e's licensing, but what the hell would prevent somebody from developing their own original setting and making it 5e compatible and publishing it?

 

[DavidBVal]

This seems like some cool stuff, but I want original D&D settings, not Middle Earth

damn these third party developers for not developing materials they have no license to

I know nothing about 5e's licensing, but what the hell would prevent somebody from developing their own original setting and making it 5e compatible and publishing it?

But if they did, and nobody knew about it, would it really exist?

Also, https://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Valoreign.pdf

 

[DavidBVal]

This is the summary page with the new mechanics: