D&D 5E Discussion

[deuxhero]

Oh boy! Icewind Dale! Looks like WotC really is contractually obligated to publish a certain number of FR books a year.

 

[Silva]

Planescape is coming in some form, look at all the Planar themed UAs. Planescape is one of the most popular settings in D&D, only FR is more popular. Plus it has practical value because it connected to every other setting, so it's useful to almost all of them. It's important to After lives and crossovers.

So yeah Planescape is coming.

I would be satisfied with a good Sigil book describing it's workings and planes and factions etc, and a good sample adventure.

(but then I have a big collection of 2e PS books )

 

[Bara]

Well Looks like they're droping "Race" for "Folk"

Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons
By Wizards of the Coast/D&D Team - 06/17/2020


Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, making D&D as welcoming and inclusive as possible has moved to the forefront of our priorities over the last six years. We’d like to share with you what we’ve been doing, and what we plan to do in the future to address legacy D&D content that does not reflect who we are today. We recognize that doing this isn’t about getting to a place where we can rest on our laurels but continuing to head in the right direction. We feel that being transparent about it is the best way to let our community help us to continue to calibrate our efforts.

One of the explicit design goals of 5th edition D&D is to depict humanity in all its beautiful diversity by depicting characters who represent an array of ethnicities, gender identities, sexual orientations, and beliefs. We want everyone to feel at home around the game table and to see positive reflections of themselves within our products. “Human” in D&D means everyone, not just fantasy versions of northern Europeans, and the D&D community is now more diverse than it’s ever been.

Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.

Here’s what we’re doing to improve:

• We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. In those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples. We will continue that approach in future books, portraying all the peoples of D&D in relatable ways and making it clear that they are as free as humans to decide who they are and what they do.
  
• When every D&D book is reprinted, we have an opportunity to correct errors that we or the broader D&D community discovered in that book. Each year, we use those opportunities to fix a variety of things, including errors in judgment. In recent reprintings of Tomb of Annihilation and Curse of Strahd, for example, we changed text that was racially insensitive. Those reprints have already been printed and will be available in the months ahead. We will continue this process, reviewing each book as it comes up for a reprint and fixing such errors where they are present.
  
• Later this year, we will release a product (not yet announced) that offers a way for a player to customize their character’s origin, including the option to change the ability score increases that come from being an elf, a dwarf, or one of D&D's many other playable folk. This option emphasizes that each person in the game is an individual with capabilities all their own.
  
• Curse of Strahd included a people known as the Vistani and featured the Vistani heroine Ezmerelda. Regrettably, their depiction echoes some stereotypes associated with the Romani people in the real world. To rectify that, we’ve not only made changes to Curse of Strahd, but in two upcoming books, we will also show—working with a Romani consultant—the Vistani in a way that doesn’t rely on reductive tropes.
  
• We've received valuable insights from sensitivity readers on two of our recent books. We are incorporating sensitivity readers into our creative process, and we will continue to reach out to experts in various fields to help us identify our blind spots.
  
• We're proactively seeking new, diverse talent to join our staff and our pool of freelance writers and artists. We’ve brought in contributors who reflect the beautiful diversity of the D&D community to work on books coming out in 2021. We're going to invest even more in this approach and add a broad range of new voices to join the chorus of D&D storytelling.

And we will continue to listen to you all. We created 5th edition in conversation with the D&D community. It's a conversation that continues to this day. That's at the heart of our work—listening to the community, learning what brings you joy, and doing everything we can to provide it in every one of our books.

This part of our work will never end. We know that every day someone finds the courage to voice their truth, and we’re here to listen. We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to continuing to improve D&D for generations to come.

This just reinforces my hope we never go back Planescape or Spelljammer they're going to mess with it badly.

I just hope they don't do some nonsense of making all racial bonuses available to all races otherwise whats the point of picking dawarf vs human. Like I like settings that twist the positions of races but I appreciate having their classic descriptions so its going to suck if this means no more evil underdark drow society nor orcish raiders.

Also this opens up a can of worms for all D&D creatures now. I saw people saying what about gnolls only being evil in D&D and Crawford responding on the lines of saying they were made by a fiend and should actually be a race of fiends and not humanoids. But then we have tieflings with fiend blood or other such races are we going to have them stripped of free will or fighting for it constantly instead of just whatevers with demonic origins?

Just thank god no matter what happens I'll have my older editions to fall back too.

 

[Gyor]

Well Looks like they're droping "Race" for "Folk"

Diversity and Dungeons & Dragons
By Wizards of the Coast/D&D Team - 06/17/2020


Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is strength, for only a diverse group of adventurers can overcome the many challenges a D&D story presents. In that spirit, making D&D as welcoming and inclusive as possible has moved to the forefront of our priorities over the last six years. We’d like to share with you what we’ve been doing, and what we plan to do in the future to address legacy D&D content that does not reflect who we are today. We recognize that doing this isn’t about getting to a place where we can rest on our laurels but continuing to head in the right direction. We feel that being transparent about it is the best way to let our community help us to continue to calibrate our efforts.

One of the explicit design goals of 5th edition D&D is to depict humanity in all its beautiful diversity by depicting characters who represent an array of ethnicities, gender identities, sexual orientations, and beliefs. We want everyone to feel at home around the game table and to see positive reflections of themselves within our products. “Human” in D&D means everyone, not just fantasy versions of northern Europeans, and the D&D community is now more diverse than it’s ever been.

Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game—orcs and drow being two of the prime examples—have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated. That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.

Here’s what we’re doing to improve:

• We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. In those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples. We will continue that approach in future books, portraying all the peoples of D&D in relatable ways and making it clear that they are as free as humans to decide who they are and what they do.
  
• When every D&D book is reprinted, we have an opportunity to correct errors that we or the broader D&D community discovered in that book. Each year, we use those opportunities to fix a variety of things, including errors in judgment. In recent reprintings of Tomb of Annihilation and Curse of Strahd, for example, we changed text that was racially insensitive. Those reprints have already been printed and will be available in the months ahead. We will continue this process, reviewing each book as it comes up for a reprint and fixing such errors where they are present.
  
• Later this year, we will release a product (not yet announced) that offers a way for a player to customize their character’s origin, including the option to change the ability score increases that come from being an elf, a dwarf, or one of D&D's many other playable folk. This option emphasizes that each person in the game is an individual with capabilities all their own.
  
• Curse of Strahd included a people known as the Vistani and featured the Vistani heroine Ezmerelda. Regrettably, their depiction echoes some stereotypes associated with the Romani people in the real world. To rectify that, we’ve not only made changes to Curse of Strahd, but in two upcoming books, we will also show—working with a Romani consultant—the Vistani in a way that doesn’t rely on reductive tropes.
  
• We've received valuable insights from sensitivity readers on two of our recent books. We are incorporating sensitivity readers into our creative process, and we will continue to reach out to experts in various fields to help us identify our blind spots.
  
• We're proactively seeking new, diverse talent to join our staff and our pool of freelance writers and artists. We’ve brought in contributors who reflect the beautiful diversity of the D&D community to work on books coming out in 2021. We're going to invest even more in this approach and add a broad range of new voices to join the chorus of D&D storytelling.

And we will continue to listen to you all. We created 5th edition in conversation with the D&D community. It's a conversation that continues to this day. That's at the heart of our work—listening to the community, learning what brings you joy, and doing everything we can to provide it in every one of our books.

This part of our work will never end. We know that every day someone finds the courage to voice their truth, and we’re here to listen. We are eternally grateful for the ongoing dialog with the D&D community, and we look forward to continuing to improve D&D for generations to come.

This just reinforces my hope we never go back Planescape or Spelljammer they're going to mess with it badly.

I just hope they don't do some nonsense of making all racial bonuses available to all races otherwise whats the point of picking dawarf vs human. Like I like settings that twist the positions of races but I appreciate having their classic descriptions so its going to suck if this means no more evil underdark drow society nor orcish raiders.

Also this opens up a can of worms for all D&D creatures now. I saw people saying what about gnolls only being evil in D&D and Crawford responding on the lines of saying they were made by a fiend and should actually be a race of fiends and not humanoids. But then we have tieflings with fiend blood or other such races are we going to have them stripped of free will or fighting for it constantly instead of just whatevers with demonic origins?

Just thank god no matter what happens I'll have my older editions to fall back too.

I think Fiend Gnolls and Humaniod Gnolls are comparable to Cambions and Tieflings, Cambions and Fiend Gnolls are the fiend version of a race, with Humaniod Gnolls and Tieflings being the humaniod PC friendly versions.

One important thing in that message is it confirms there are at least one more book this year besides Icewind Dale, and it will have racial variants options (and logically the UA class variants would be in the same book), and mostly will be one of the two books Vistani will be in. I think this book will be a mix of Planescape/Planar book and a PHB 2 (or PHB3 if you think of XGTE as PHB2).

Honestly I tied of the hyper wokeness, but I'll wait and see what they cook up before sitting in judgement. I do like that they are seperating traditional humaniod Gnolls from the 5e fiendish Gnolls, because it better reflects Gnoll history.

And while I'm not all hyper woke, even I recognize Vistani needed fixing. So I will try and approach with a open if leary mind to see how this all plays out.

 

[Akratus]

 

[Morblot]

Rewriting books now? It seems WotC has become the Seattle branch of the Ministry of Truth.

 

[Akratus]

Rewriting books now? It seems WotC has become the Seattle branch of the Ministry of Truth.

Well really what they're doing is creating really valuable limited racist editions of these books. Shit I didn't want to buy one before but I sure as shit do now I'll pay a hundred bucks for those babies!

 

[Bara]

At least they haven't talked about taking down or changing the older edition books they have available off of Dmsguild.

Okay so if this video is true which we'll find out in a few hours apparently next adventure is set in 1450 DR in Forgotten Realms.... and the gods are dying again.



Spell Plague 2.0 inc?

Nevermind some one reminded me that 5e timeline starts at 1489 DR so this is probably fake. Plus the store page makes no mention of dying gods in the description

Spoiler

Some Secrets are Worth Dying For
Feel the cold touch of death in this adventure for the world’s greatest roleplaying game.

In Icewind Dale, adventure is a dish best served cold.

Beneath the unyielding night sky, you stand before a towering glacier and recite an ancient rhyme, causing a crack to form in the great wall of ice. Beyond this yawning fissure, the Caves of Hunger await. And past this icy dungeon is a secret so old and terrifying that few dare speak of it. The mad wizards of the Arcane Brotherhood long to possess that which the god of winter’s wrath has so coldly preserved—as do you! What fantastic secrets and treasures are entombed in the sunless heart of the glacier, and what will their discovery mean for the denizens of Icewind Dale? Can you save Ten-Towns from the Frostmaiden’s everlasting night?

Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden is a tale of dark terror that revisits the forlorn, flickering candlelights of civilization known as Ten-Towns and sheds light on the many bone-chilling locations that surround these frontier settlements.

 

[Gyor]

They announced everything, except the one book I'm interested in, the book that they were doing most of the UAs for. I give no fucks Icewind Dale stuff, I love FR, but I live in Canada and I work in blizzards, so its all a pass. They will most likely wait until the end of the weekend to mention it in passing. Stupid Bullshit.

 

[Gyor]

They announced a D&D cook book, instead of most important book of D&D this year. Someone at WotC is a fucking moron.

 

[Bara]

I don't even get why they had any live stream presentations past BG3.

The adventure module reveal was bare bones in information and not really hype able. Then we had comic books, new miniatures (the size of small puppies), and wow a cook book.

If it really was just about the charity they should have just skipped right to the "celebrity" D&D streams.

Was really hoping to see this new racial modifier option and see how bad or okay it is already.

 

[udm]

Genuinely curious, why would you even be looking forward to new releases from nuWOTC? It's not like they have a shortage of splatbooks out there. Grab something old and convert shit to your liking. Mechanics may be unbalanced, but I find this makes the heartbreaks much more bearable, because the vocal RPG community, including those running the show, is one gigantic woke freak circus.

 

[Bara]

It's not my favorite like BECMI but I still enjoy 5e and would just like more mechanical expansions to the game with new sub-classes or features. I already take the old splat books and convert them as needed.

Pandius is particuarly nice community for bringing Mystara to 5e. My concern here its not the new lore turning out badly as we'll always be able to tweak that or fix it on our own.

It's the whole changing of races and stat advantages that bothers me as I worry they're going to make it the new default and if I try to grab players or join games ad hoc it'll be harder to get them on board with that.

It's funny as if they make it so flexible we'll have a loss of diversity in the races. I see people trying to justify that its okay online saying that "our pcs are the exceptional ones why can't a halfing get a +2 to str and match a Goliath in strength" and essentially wanting their PCs to be super heroes and be given that strength right away in D&D vs just regular mortals who rise to Heroes and break the odds and rise up to that strength.

Course some would say the game being about super heroes instead of heroes was lost back in 3E.

But yeah if nuWoTC is going this way I guess at least Mystara & Dark Sun are safe from their redesign goals.

Mystara is pretty much alternate fantasy earth with a lot of real world counter parts some ones going to get offended by something in it and they'd be fools to believe otherwise.

For Dark Sun no way in hell will they feel comfortable to re-introduce a setting inc which Orcs and many other races were genocided out of existence by the machinations of a mad halfing. Especially over this hoop la of how important it is for proper Orc representation.

Also from the geniuses at WoTC they've turned the meme of "Three-Kobolds into a trench coat into a actual monster."

Spoiler

 

[Bara]

Okay I'll stop spamming the thread after this but folks who bought curse of strahd and tomb of annihilation on roll20 have had the changes WoTC were talking about patched in.

Honestly nothing bad but maybe a little annoying.

Tomb of Annilation

Spoiler

Detailed list of the terminology shift for Tomb: Basically they don't call the humans of chult exotic (thats bad now?) or svage anymore but refer to them as a tribal people. Lizardmen & Goblins are still have savage for a descriptor.

Curse of Strahd: changes

Spoiler

• Removed cantrips from Victor's and Kasimir's spellbooks
  
  
• Improved Haunted One background
  
  
• Damia (Vistana daughter of Stanimir) is now female human
  
  
• Updated the general description of Vistani
  
  
• Clarified stat block for Vistani thugs in Castle Ravenloft
  
  
• Removed several instances of broad alignment assignment
  
  
• Changed the description of Rictavio's tiger in Vallaki
  
  
• Removed references to drunkenness in Vistani camp
  
  
• Strahd can now use Unarmed Strike in wolf form and Bite in all forms
  
  
• Updated Ezmerelda's description

Only one that I think is flat out stupid here is that Vistani are above getting drunk now?

Overall I can accept this easily as I was expecting worse. Plus it helps there no mentioning of deleting the word race as its used several times in both books.

Also they're still using Orcs as bad guys/antagonistic faction it seems for the next adventure. If you go to the map for the Icewind Dale adventure and click on the Manny-Arrow Tribe it says

Of the orc tribes living in the mountains, the most powerful by far is the Many-Arrows tribe. Ten-Towners and Reghed nomads alike live in fear of the day when a great chieftain of the tribe will reunite the orcs of Icewind Dale and their banners descend once again from the Spine of the World. There are enclaves of Many-Arrows orcs scattered throughout the Spine of The World.

So now my only worry remains how their going to handle those new stat options for races they mentioned. It's going to be real boring if all races have the same baseline and the pluses & minuses come from your background or class only.

I'm going to just take a chill pill on this and get back to designing my campaign.

 

[deuxhero]

For Dark Sun no way in hell will they feel comfortable to re-introduce a setting inc which Orcs and many other races were genocided out of existence by the machinations of a mad halfing. Especially over this hoop la of how important it is for proper Orc representation.

4E Dark Sun already restored several extinct species, most obviously horses.

 

[Max Heap]

We present orcs and drow in a new light in two of our most recent books, Eberron: Rising from the Last War and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. In those books, orcs and drow are just as morally and culturally complex as other peoples. We will continue that approach in future books, portraying all the peoples of D&D in relatable ways and making it clear that they are as free as humans to decide who they are and what they do.

That's just garbage.

Isn't the whole point of Drizzt's backstory that in Drow society you are not free, cause you either bow to tradition and take your place within one of the rivaling houses or you are basically an outlaw?

That's literally the reason why Drizzt had to leave - cause he wouldn't accept his position.

Also it irks me how they insinuate that such societies aren't complex. Cause practically speaking, societies with deeply traditional systems of rule must also have a long history of optimizing their rules of conduct. Otherwise they wouldn't come up with those traditions in the first place.

And Menzoberranzan is essentially a caste society, embedded into a system of noble houses with a clerical matriarchy at the top.
Jesus Christ, how much more complexity do you need?
Yes they are assholse and no they are not relatable to humans. And you know why? Cause they aren't culturally related to surface dwellers in the slightest. That's literally their whole shtick, with very few exceptions - and even those still have the mentality, they are just not applying it so harshly (like Viconia in BG2, who is an outlaw in drow society and basically looks for allies on the surface, but she is still an asshole from a "good" human character's perspective).

So instead of watering it down and making drows just a "bit" evil but basically cool and everything, why not explore them? Why not explore the reasons why such a society can form at all? Isn't that way more interesting than just having another variety of humans?
R. A. Salvatore explored their society in "Homeland" - why not build on that? I'm sure there is a shitton of other material out there too.

Or is it maybe, that exploring authoritarian tendencies within fantasy societies is just uncomfortable to limp wristed white liberals (which seem to be WotC's primary target audience these days), because they feel threatened by the thought of maybe understanding where a zealot or an isolationist or a nationalist or a traditionalist is coming from?
It seems to me, they do not understand that you can reckognize someones points and still fiercly disagree with them. Recognition is already a thought crime.

With an attitude like that all creativity in writing dies, cause you will never be able to explore themes outside of your own moral framework.

Edit:
That death of creativity in writing is by the way also extremely apparent in current science fiction. For comparison, in Star Trek TNG lots of stories were basically like "here's a society or character that completely goes against everything you believe in, but they have a good reason for it - you got your idealized moral codes, so how do you deal with that?" - and the exploration of that was basically the episode. And many, many times the result was just "alright, we just can't deal with it", which is where the prime directive then came in, basically ordering the crew to fuck off. And even that system was flawed and Star Trek TNG's writers fully acknowledged it, by having situations where the protagonists are pushed to such moral limits that they have to break their own moral code. But that was extremely rare (9 occassions in 178 episodes).

So maybe WotC should swallow that pill before they throw their writer's at an established piece of lore. Making drows more relatable does not make them more interesting for stories. It makes them less interesting, because conflict is the heart of drama. And if there ain't no drama, who gives a shit about your story?

 

[Fedora Master]

https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2020/06/d...-to-address-race-and-inclusivity-in-the-game/

“Throughout the 50-year history of D&D, some of the peoples in the game – orcs and drow being two of the prime examples – have been characterized as monstrous and evil, using descriptions that are painfully reminiscent of how real-world ethnic groups have been and continue to be denigrated,” the new statement reads in part. “That’s just not right, and it’s not something we believe in. Despite our conscious efforts to the contrary, we have allowed some of those old descriptions to reappear in the game. We recognize that to live our values, we have to do an even better job in handling these issues. If we make mistakes, our priority is to make things right.” Going forwards, D&D will be making those things right with a six-point plan. Outside of the game itself, these include the use of sensitivity readers on upcoming and current Dungeons & Dragons sourcebooks as part of the creative process, and a commitment to “proactively seeking new, diverse talent to join our staff and our pool of freelance writers and artists,” a move already made for products set to release in the next year, but a policy being maintained going forwards.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It's so weird. I used to think these games were about adventuring and killing monsters. Apparently it's just racism and colonialism. I wonder how much xp a diverse, multi-racial hug circle is worth when you include misunderstood groups like orcs and gnolls.

 

[pOcHa]

their imagined audience is more of a fantasy than the game itself:

 

[Lhynn]

Its funny. Because being gay is such a fucking joke.

Fucking faggots, the end of every joke since the 1980s

 

[Fedora Master]

It's so weird. I used to think these games were about adventuring and killing monsters. Apparently it's just racism and colonialism. I wonder how much xp a diverse, multi-racial hug circle is worth when you include misunderstood groups like orcs and gnolls.

I guess Wizards forgot that this is a setting where Evil is an actual force in the fucking universe on the same level as gravity.

 

[udm]

their imagined audience is more of a fantasy than the game itself:

Spoiler

I saw this comic before. I used to think it was funny, but now that I've clocked over 200 games as a GM, it's pretty obvious whoever drew this had no clue how to interpret dice rolls.

What's funny about this diverse comic also is that it could also be considered offensive to gay people. Too bad the author never got outed as a homophobe.

 

[lightbane]

So, I finally checked some stuff about DnD 5e. It's stupidly simple, which makes for quick plays and easy to learn, I suppose. It's better than 4E, not that it is hard to accomplish.

However, there are many flaws such as unclear rules for crafting magical gear which required another book to do so, races that still are collection of bonuses with no drawbacks lest snowflakes are offended and blatantly nerfed/lame magic (although Wizards eventually still surpass the Fighter anyway ).

Alas, this is nothing to making the orcs and such less racist and turning your character choices bland. I wonder what will future sourcebooks and settings be about. Fighting DRUMPF! stand-ins?

 

[DavidBVal]

However, there are many flaws such as unclear rules for crafting magical gear which required another book to do so, races that still are collection of bonuses with no drawbacks lest snowflakes are offended and blatantly nerfed/lame magic

Those things are not a big deal, once you DM a bit more you'll learn these are the problems:

-Bounded accuracy is great, D&D needed that, but they went too far. From a +2 to a +6 through 20 levels means progression is too slow; waiting 4 levels until you gain a miser +1 bonus to anything in your character sheet. Should have been up to +8 or +10 probably.
-Proficiency for skills is boring. Who wants to be "proficient", people wants to be great at stuff, at least to some stuff their characters specialize at. So your level 12 ranger with 14 WIS has a whooping +6 to Survival checks! that gives a magnificent 55% chance to succeed at a medium check (DC 15). Even worse, since we're rolling a D20 here, luck becomes the biggest factor; chances are someone else in the party with a +1 or a +2 WIS will roll higher than the poor ranger. The solution would probably be having 4 Skill Training levels instead of two: Untrained, Proficient, Expert and Master.
-Saves progression makes no sense. A fighter or barbarian has about the same chance to resist a Hold Person at level 1 and 20 because he isn't proficient. Even if you are proficient, that just means a +6, so most spells land. to balance this they made spells less deadly which ends up making the whole thing feel bland.
-Healing. Everybody pretty much can heal to full hp daily by having short rests and long rests. At least this one is easier to houserule out.
-Damn HP. They should have done some kind of "bounding" at this point with the HP bloat, like they did with the Accuracy or even with the stats, now capped even for dragons. The system feels much less lethal now: less attacks per round, less damage, but the same HP. If we add to this the fact that you now don't die as easily when all HP are lost, players are much less worried about survival, which is a terrible thing.

However, I still believe 5e is a good edition. If only they evolved it a little, it could become the best edition ever easily. As it stands now 3e is still better for cRPGs (more fun progression, spells with more punch) and AD&D/2e with all the outdated mechanics is still the one with the "WOW!" factor.

 

[Curratum]

D&D doesn't know what to do with itself. "We have advantage, but we also still have all those shitty +X bonuses, we can't decide whether we want one or the other!"