Interview DA II Mike Laidlaw's GameInformer Interview

[Havoc]

"Now, all of assuden, the Codex lovessssssssssss DA1."

No.

 

[Achilles]

Why would I not be serious? They're both BW games. They both play largely alike.

I don't agree with circ's assessment about the quality of both DAO and DA2 (or BG2 for that matter) but he does have a point. The differences between DAO and DA2 mainly have to do with scale, pacing and a couple of poor design decisions in DA2's case. Other than that, they're not much different.

 

[Befuddled Halfling]

How in the fuck is it possible for you to think that less and less RPG elements in their games constitutes IMPROVEMENTS and REQUIRES ENCOURAGEMENT as if they were some retarded kid, which they are, is beyond me.

Ah, rightey, I think this is where your perception differs from mine - imo DAO actually added a good amount of RPG elements compared to say KOTOR, Jade, ME1 or all the standard (recent) Bioshit. So it was bucking the trend. That's what got my hopes up - that's why I liked it and thought it deserved to be encouraged. Not the long term trend (over a span like the one you give), not the way it compares to the classics. Sure DAO didn't go far enough and was a pisspoor knock-off of the pre-03 stuff, but was better than what anyone else was going to put their balls on the line to try. And I bet you, it's more 'hardcore' than anything we'll see for a good few years (jury is still out of TW2, but Skyrim is not looking good). Knowles had to leave Bio after the doctors saw the end product, because they thought it was too slow and cerebral for the console kiddies. So looks like they bucked the trend by accident rather than design, and then found ~4 million people actually *gasp* might have wanted it that way.

But if you don't agree that DAO bucked the trend (at least a bit), and DA2 went back to the trend, then maybe you didn't play them long enough ... or maybe I am seeing things in DAO that aren't there.

 

[Befuddled Halfling]

Why would I not be serious? They're both BW games. They both play largely alike.

I don't agree with circ's assessment about the quality of both DAO and DA2 (or BG2 for that matter) but he does have a point. The differences between DAO and DA2 mainly have to do with scale, pacing and a couple of poor design decisions in DA2's case. Other than that, they're not much different.

I don't think it’s just scale and pacing. Let's ignore the 'tight budget' issues that led to obvious things like recycling locations and NPCs wearing the same clothes after 7 years. If a game is a good RPG we'd all forgive that in a heartbeat. Let's also for the same reason ignore console limitations, so shitty textures in DA2 are ‘fine’, low ambient NPC population is fine etc. Let's also ignore issues of personal preference like voiced protagonist, paraphrasing, friend/rival vs approve/disapprove vs paragon/renegade… *takes deep breath*

Let's start with the story - in DAO it seems to be about the Blight, but really it is about shaping the politics of a country. You crown the human and dwarven king. You decide if the templars exercise the right of annulment or whether the mages get a chance, whether to let Morrigan complete her plan, or die stopping her. In DA2, the story is hyped as being about shaping the politics of a city and no ‘Blight’, but is poorly executed and so ends up feeling like it’s about nothing urgent or engaging in particular, ie not even the faux-urgency of an archdemon waiting to be put out of his misery. In DA2 no matter which save game you go back to, and how you replay, most things still happen mostly the same (ie more so than DAO). Whatever you do, Anders does his OTT pyrotechnics, and you end up fighting both the mages and the templars. You can argue getting to crown Harrowmont over Bhelen is no big deal in DAO, if all that you get for it is an epilogue slide. The depth and quality of dilemmas in DAO is not bad, but the consequences are bad. In DA2, the depth, quality, quantity and consequences are all much poorer – if I had to put a number on that, I would go with something like a 40% drop.

Let's look at the companions - sorry but none of DA2 emo, wooden, two dimensional characters can hold a candle to giants (remember we’re comparing DA’s only here) like Morrigan, Zevran, Leliana or Shale. Heck, even Dog has more personality than Carver. Just my opinion of course, but comparing dry numbers of dialog lines (50% cut) show that it would have been difficult to achieve DAO depth with the huge cut.

And the combat - instead of each encounter being meticulously laid out and pre-planned like in DAO, in DA2 you get a spawn of 6-7 from thin air (mostly of similar spec), followed by a second wave. No tactical cam, so friendly fire on nightmare is just frustrating. No pre-planning, no real lessons learned in the 2nd playthrough to finesse in the 3rd. Just focus fire, skill spam, and kiting to while away cooldowns. Cross class combos are a nice improvement, but since you don't know when the next wave will come, timing them is luck. For me, in DAO, once you did your homework, you could cruise through tough battles like Jarvia without a health poultice on the PC on hard or above. In DA2 I have to reload simply because I didn't spot a thin-air spawn behind a mage soon enough, or my AoE went off the mark because the enemies move stupidly fast, or wave 3 spawned faster than before and my health potion was still cooling down. Boss fights – just add 50 million hit points in DA2 and hope it feels Awesome.

Or the tone - ie that the target audience has gone from DAO’s 25-45 to DA2’s 13-18. From STDs to zombie mothers, to quests involving pedophiles, to immature siblings with growing up pains, DA2 quests are straight out of a 6th grader's world. Waterballoon blood spurts on crits, boobs that would topple most golems, huge jrpg swords, combat acrobatics that would not look out of place in an 80s martial arts arcade game. Emoticons in the dialog wheel to save all the boring reading. And finally the mechanics. Companion inventory locked down. Only 2 relevant stats per character. Items automatically carried as 'junk'. Drastically reduced race/background selection.

This is more than just pace and scale "and not much different other than that". This is a 180 degree shift - and that’s in the lead designer’s own words. (sorry for the long post, but on the bright side, at least now we can all get our popcorn and wait for Volly to provide scientific evidence that all the above points are bullshitz).

 

[Volourn]

The above post can be summed up in one word: Idiotic.

 

[Xor]

The above post can be summed up in one word: r00fles!

 

[Volourn]

True dat!

 

[Achilles]

When one chooses to explain his opinion in detail, I think that he deserves a better response than "youa re dumb", whether one agrees with him or not. We wouldn't want the Codex to seem unwelcoming now, would we? :D

Fisrt thing's first, I think that DAO is a better game than DA2. Now then ,let's see:

Story. In all honesty, I felt that story-wise DA2 had a more interesting basic premise. We can argue about how the quality of execution could have been better but, well, DAO wasn't that great in that regard either. It's true that most of the decisions you make in DA2 are not as important in the grand scheme of things, but I would argue that this really is a matter of scale. You're not determining the fate of all of Ferelden in DA2 and some people are bound to prefer the grander "feel" of the first Dragon Age. I felt that the more personal and contained setting was quite fresh and it made me care more about Kirkwall as a place, especially since Hawke and his companions evolve and make a life there.

Companions. I agree, DAO's cast was better.

Combat. I think people are blowing this whole spawning thing way out of proportion. Sure, Bioware should have done a better job masking these spawns, like CD Projekt did in the Witcher (drowners from within the water, wraiths appearing out of thin air, those bat-persons falling from the ceiling, skoiatel soldiers coming out of doors in Old Vizima). However, the system does have some advantages, mainly that it's less exploitable than the the one used in DAO where metagaming could give you a huge advantage in battle. I've lost count of the number of times I would nuke enemy groups in DAO from within walls and with no direct line of sight, ending the battle in the cheesiest way possible. With the spawning system it's not as easy, since many enemy troops don't enter the battlefield all at once. A mixed approach would be ideal, but DAO's system wasn't fundamentally better, in my opinion of course.

Tone. True, DA2 comes off as quite a bit more "juvenile" than DAO. That's something that may be a complete deal breaker for some people (in the same way that others avoid anime games), or something that can be ignored. It was the latter for me, since I rarely let superficial stuff like that deter me from playing a game I think I might like. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have played DAO (stupid blood splattering and retarded marketing campaign), Witcher (juvenile boobie card collecting), Fallout: New Vegas (stupid amounts of cartoon violence, lots of questionable humor) and so on. When I was a teenager, I too liked gratuitous violence, boobies and awesome macho attitude from the protagonist. Such is life, I understand that a company has to appeal to a wide range of people.

 

[Cynic]

"The loss of the freedom of camera movement, loss of origins, loss of races, changes to battle mechanics, rushed feeling, art direction, corridor environments...the list goes on."

Here's what the typical Codexer whined about when DA1 came out....


Origins - doesn't really change antyhing so it sucks

Races - &*yawn* stereotypical fantasy bullshit... dwarves, elves, and humans

Changes To Battle Mechanics - sucks, sucks, not enoguh enemy variioety just spam the same 3 abilities to win, yawn boring, real time combat

Rushed Feeling - Okay, you got me here...

Art Direction - typical fnatasy bullshit, simply a LOTOR knockoff, so 2000 bullshit shit

Corridor Environments - just go in a striaght line, no chjoices in direction, corrider after corrider

Now, all of assuden, the Codex lovessssssssssss DA1.

STFU!

P.S. DA and DA2 share enough similarities that over overrule any differences so it's FACT they are very much fukkin' similar.

You are a fucking lying fukk if you fukkin' lying about it.

SO FUCK YEAH!!!

I didn't complain about any of those things in DA1 so...you're fucking wrong.

 

[Volourn]

"We wouldn't want the Codex to seem unwelcoming now, would we?
"

I don't know about this we; but I sure do. If people can't handle being called an idiot they don't belong on the Codex. One needs a backbone to earn the right to be a Codexer.

DA2 = better story, & characters

DA1 = better role-playing

DA1 = DA2 = C&C, combat, & graphics


"I didn't complain about any of those things in DA1 so...you're fucking wrong."

You are as much a typical codexer as I am. ie. Not at all.

 

[misha]

"We wouldn't want the Codex to seem unwelcoming now, would we?
"

I don't know about this we; but I sure do. If people can't handle being called an idiot they don't belong on the Codex. One needs a backbone to earn the right to be a Codexer.

Well, SOME people have to handle that quite often.. :D

However, the system does have some advantages, mainly that it's less exploitable than the the one used in DAO where metagaming could give you a huge advantage in battle. I've lost count of the number of times I would nuke enemy groups in DAO from within walls and with no direct line of sight, ending the battle in the cheesiest way possible. With the spawning system it's not as easy, since many enemy troops don't enter the battlefield all at once. A mixed approach would be ideal, but DAO's system wasn't fundamentally better, in my opinion of course.

The problem is.. that DA:O wannabe Infinity games spiritual successor - some gamers wanted an old-style combat where the amount of clicks per second was useless. OFC DA:O's combat wasn't great, but why the hell they ruined that instead of evolving [if combat presented in DA2 is an evolution i will probably find my BG discs instead of waiting for a new BW game]

 

[waywardOne]

OFC DA:O's combat wasn't great, but why the hell they ruined that instead of evolving [if combat presented in DA2 is an evolution i will probably find my BG discs instead of waiting for a new BW game]

you read laidlaw: DAO on normal scared a lot of retards off.

 

[Jim Cojones]

DA2 = better story, & characters

DA1 = better role-playing

DA1 = DA2 = C&C, combat, & graphics

I'm very angry about people not understanding what equals sign represents.

Oh, wait, it's not "people", it's just Volourn. Doesn't matter anyway, similar examples can be provided from multiple posters.

 

[misha]

you read laidlaw: DAO on normal scared a lot of retards off.

Ah, indeed.
I sometimes forget that there is still a laidlaw ready too nerf everything >.<

 

[Xor]

I was hoping DA2 wouldn't sell and Laidlaw would get shitcanned, but it looks like the industry is still rewarding mediocrity.

Oh well. Bioware was pretty much doomed the moment EA bought them, it was only a question of when they'd be fully assimilated.

 

[Achilles]

The problem is.. that DA:O wannabe Infinity games spiritual successor - some gamers wanted an old-style combat where the amount of clicks per second was useless.

I can sympathize but the amount of clicks per second was also useless in DA2. Now, from what I hear, that was not the case in the console version of DA2 but I played the game on PC and I did much the same stuff as I did in DAO, namely targeting specific foes and activating abilities at the proper time. I didn't button mash, so I don't really understand why people are complaining, unless they all played the game on console and they just roleplay as PC gamers here for the lulz. The pace is faster, sure, there's blood and exploding darkspawn, also true, but the combat system seems the same to me.

 

[Befuddled Halfling]

Combat. I think people are blowing this whole spawning thing way out of proportion.

However, the system does have some advantages, mainly that it's less exploitable than the the one used in DAO where metagaming could give you a huge advantage in battle. I've lost count of the number of times I would nuke enemy groups in DAO from within walls and with no direct line of sight, ending the battle in the cheesiest way possible

OK, I follow what you're saying now (you had me really worried with your 'fuck it...' thread ). And thanks for helping with Volly - he's a fearsome character who does not even hide his intent to squash me like an ant. Quite evil. But I do admire his balls (figuratively speaking, of course) - coming onto The Codex all giddy with Biolove is not something for the faint hearted.

Speaking of Biolove - by nuke enemy groups from within walls - do you mean Blizzard / Tempest / Earthquake? Because they only got the monsters' attention for me, made them all run out of the place the AoE was effecting, losing only a small percentage of their health. So all these spells did was to move the battle field from the room to the corridor (unless you cast Grease in the doorway to hold them up). Or do you mean Storm of the Century which was so ridiculously OP, I didn't use it (felt like cheating with a dev console).

I think the issue with the spawning is not so much the believability of it, as the way it just springs chaos on you (you're always on the back foot).

I could overlook a juvenile tone. Heck I had fun with Dungeon Siege 2, just because I'm an OCD loot whore, and that game was as kiddie it gets. None of the DA2 changes on their own would be enough to merit calling it a significnat departure from DAO, it's just when you take them all together.

 

[Achilles]

Don't let the Codex scare you, these guys can appear tough but they have a heart of gold, especially Volourn

Earthquake, Grease and a fire-based AOE spell would wreak havoc on most enemy groups. The point is not really the spells themselves, though, rather the fact that most of the time you had the chance to unleash them before the enemy even knew you were there.

Whether it was because you could cast it through walls in rooms that you hadn't visited yet, or because your spells' range was greater than the enemy "alert" state, the fact remains that you had lots of chances to "cheat" your way out of a lot of fights.

Now that doesn't mean that DA2 had superior encounter design. It really didn't, and the spawning out of thin air looked silly. The best system would be a combination of the two, ie encounters where you may have a tactical advantage over your enemies but also other fights where you are ambushed by waves of opponents. The key here is attention to detail: Make the "rules" of each encounter as realistic as possible. For example, I get the element of surprise if I manage to find an alternate route and get the drop on my enemies, but I also get ambushed if I'm exploring an enemy hideout I know nothing about. I fight some enemies on my own terms in small fights but I also get surrounded and attacked by groups of enemies in larget battles. Both systems are plausible if done correctly.

I understand what you're saying about the many small changes in DA2 and I can also see pretty clearly why many people hate the game. It is a fun game though, if one is willing to cut it some slack.

 

[Volourn]

DA2's combat would have been near perfect with the removal of two things: spawning enemies in mid air and enemies with a billion hit points.

 

[Trash]

Damage controll is in full swing over at Bioware. I bet he had a full department of EA PR suits looking over his shoulders when making that interview.

 

[misha]

did much the same stuff as I did in DAO, namely targeting specific foes and activating abilities at the proper time. I didn't button mash, so I don't really understand why people are complaining

Well i was also playing on PC [but i admit.. i hadn't heart to finish it] - what i was thinking about was the fact while fastening the combat you loose a feeling of tactical advantage. For me if i got a game with an optional isometric view it is logical that i should at least sometimes have chance to plan my battle before it actually begins [and then get a fucking satisfaction if all what i have planned worked well :D], use my party companions, terrain and so on.

 

[Havoc]

"DA2's combat would have been near perfect with the removal of two things: spawning enemies in mid air and enemies with a billion hit points."

No.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

"DA2's combat would have been near perfect with the removal of two things: spawning enemies in mid air and enemies with a billion hit points."

No.

It wouldn't have been perfect (that would be to remove combat completely) but it would have eliminated two of the biggest annoyances, thus improving the overall bloodsplosion awesomeness.