Editorial Daggerfall successor The Wayward Realms revealed to be mismanaged vaporware in post-mortem editorial

[Tyranicon]

Then Dwarf Fortress would actually have a usable UI.

I joke out of love, but also seriously, it needs a better interface. Too many damn windows/tabs.

The itch.io/steam release version appears to be consolidating some of those windows.

Looks nice

Yes, I'm looking forward to the new version, but it may take a while to get here. In meantime, for non-intellectuals like me, there's Rimworld.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Unreal assets are dirt cheap. There's only two options here: you either have a big enough budget to use them as placeholders, or you shouldn't even bother with placeholders and keep them in the actual game.

It's not like anyone but unreal devs can tell anyways. You can get all the high-res, 3D asset kits to build an entire environ for 60 bucks. That's cheap even coming from me, who has no budget. Well, I spent my budget on smut mostly.

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/fantasy-and-medieval-artchitecture-kit

But that's besides the point because this project got nowhere because it's main contributors were IDEA GUYS™.

The main problem with store assets isn't their individual quality, but that it's hard to create a coherent style / look and feel / art direction with them.

 

[Tyranicon]

Unreal assets are dirt cheap. There's only two options here: you either have a big enough budget to use them as placeholders, or you shouldn't even bother with placeholders and keep them in the actual game.

It's not like anyone but unreal devs can tell anyways. You can get all the high-res, 3D asset kits to build an entire environ for 60 bucks. That's cheap even coming from me, who has no budget. Well, I spent my budget on smut mostly.

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/fantasy-and-medieval-artchitecture-kit

But that's besides the point because this project got nowhere because it's main contributors were IDEA GUYS™.

The main problem with store assets isn't their individual quality, but that it's hard to create a coherent style / look and feel / art direction with them.

What works for me is I usually find artists that sell a lot of assets, nearly enough to make a full game, then for custom work, I contract other artists (if the original isn't available) to create assets close to the same style.

It's indiedev 101 really. Sometimes it looks really janky, sometimes people pull it off. Of course, if you're expecting to get a $8 million cash injection, this becomes a non-issue.

 

[MRY]

Lol @ the people suggesting AI Dungeon as an example of good procedural gameplay. Really? The only example of good procedural gameplay today is Dwarf Fortress.

That doesn't seem right. There are innumerable roguelike games with great procedural gameplay, not to mention stuff like Minecraft, or rogue-lites like FTL; if anything, I would put Dwarf Fortress toward the low end in terms of the quality of its gameplay, though of course at the high end of its ambition. Even then, I'm not sure its gameplay is better than Rim World or Prison Architect or other games inspired by it.

That said, I agree with the point re: AI Dungeon. I don't think AI Dungeon even has gameplay. It's a very interesting project, but it's much more like a narrative game where the player drives the action. Sometimes you get a bad result in the sense that the AI screws stuff up, but the key elements of what I consider gameplay (rules and outcomes) are absent from it. In a MUD, if you type in "kill orc," it initiates actual gameplay. In AI Dungeon, if you type in "kill orc," you kill the orc and it writes a narrative piece about it, sometimes amusingly inventive, sometimes idiotic. AI Dungeon may show the potential for an AI director who can actually provide the narrative substance that players add in when they tell stories based on what happened in Dwarf Fortress; but I'm not sure it actually shows the potential to make gameplay.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I have to wonder how much of this has been taken out of context. For example, Julian LeFay's suggestion to build the game with Unreal store-bought assets would make much more sense if he was referring to the prototype game.

I also don't have a great deal of respect for someone who has to tell everyone about a game before there is a design document, team or definite funding in place.

Richard Garriot showed that you can make a game with Unity Store Assets and free contributions from fans.

Feel like I'm the only person who doesn't care at all if someone uses store-bought assets.
What's the difference between using a barrel from an asset store and paying an artist far more to create a custom barrel for you? The former costs less, for one.

 

[Tyranicon]

That said, I agree with the point re: AI Dungeon. I don't think AI Dungeon even has gameplay.

I can agree with that. AI Dungeon is more of an interesting experiment than a real game. However, if you want emergent behavior, I can't think of anything on the horizon that tops it for now.

Feel like I'm the only person who doesn't care at all if someone uses store-bought assets.
What's the difference between using a barrel from an asset store and paying an artist far more to create a custom barrel for you? The former costs less, for one.

Nobody really cares except for those armchair devs that want to cry "asset flip" over the tiniest thing. I can guarantee you that a lot of bigger games, even AAA games, make use of pre-made assets. Nobody wants to hire an artist to make grass blade #04, and if you do, then you're fucking wasting money.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Lol @ the people suggesting AI Dungeon as an example of good procedural gameplay. Really? The only example of good procedural gameplay today is Dwarf Fortress.

That doesn't seem right. There are innumerable roguelike games with great procedural gameplay, not to mention stuff like Minecraft, or rogue-lites like FTL; if anything, I would put Dwarf Fortress toward the low end in terms of the quality of its gameplay, though of course at the high end of its ambition. Even then, I'm not sure its gameplay is better than Rim World or Prison Architect or other games inspired by it.

That said, I agree with the point re: AI Dungeon. I don't think AI Dungeon even has gameplay. It's a very interesting project, but it's much more like a narrative game where the player drives the action. Sometimes you get a bad result in the sense that the AI screws stuff up, but the key elements of what I consider gameplay (rules and outcomes) are absent from it. In a MUD, if you type in "kill orc," it initiates actual gameplay. In AI Dungeon, if you type in "kill orc," you kill the orc and it writes a narrative piece about it, sometimes amusingly inventive, sometimes idiotic. AI Dungeon may show the potential for an AI director who can actually provide the narrative substance that players add in when they tell stories based on what happened in Dwarf Fortress; but I'm not sure it actually shows the potential to make gameplay.

I don't know what version of AI Dungeon you are playing, but the one I tried was pretty terrible. I tried to generate some cool adventures feating Crispy, Warpig and other Codexian characters, and it was really, really bad.

As far as DF, you can't compare its gameplay to released games now, it's essentially in the middle of development, and nothing is even close to being complete. It is the only game that truly tests the depths of procedural development, wheres the others you mentioned are only doing shallow forays into it.

 

[MRY]

I played the free one. It generated a few strikingly sophisticated things, a variety of outright glitches, and more generally, just mediocre content. But some of the sophisticated stuff was really amazing.

 

[Wysardry]

Feel like I'm the only person who doesn't care at all if someone uses store-bought assets.
What's the difference between using a barrel from an asset store and paying an artist far more to create a custom barrel for you? The former costs less, for one.

The article seemed to imply that he meant using only assets from the store. That could easily work for a prototype and many of the items in the Unreal marketplace are free which would work with their non-existent starting budget.

 

[luj1]

Imagine if Dwarf Fortress or Kenshi had an eight million dollar budget.

Yeah it would be shit

 

[Roguey]

What's the difference between using a barrel from an asset store and paying an artist far more to create a custom barrel for you? The former costs less, for one.

If it doesn't fit the art style it'll stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Art style is the least problem of modern games.

 

[Fowyr]

They are just old and oh so tired. YAWN!

Jeff Vogel, is it you?

 

[Metro]

Well... fuck.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Well, well, well. Makabb how do you intend to present your excuses?

Makabb back in 2019:

Julian says to make a serious game you need to code in c++, but he likes to be challenged

Yea when you will code a game like Daggerfall by yourself, then I will read your post, for now I'm sticking with what Julian is saying.

Julianos and Sheogorath got one more in them, we are in for something special here

Little known fact, Julian also makes music, here is his music from Amigas Sword of Sodan

That's why Julian is right, and shitposters in this thread are wrong.

Me back in 2019:

This Julian fellow seems like a faggot.

 

[infidel]

Vijay even suggested that we think about doing a multiplayer e-sports title based in the universe.

Got a good chuckle out of that. Now I know how Nosgoth came about!

But we had seen no actual code from him yet.

Julian is an AAA-level engineer, thinking on levels most programmers truly cannot fathom.

Now that's truly impressive. Without a single line of code, the dude proclaims how he's now a believer and seen Carmack incarnate.

Honestly, there's nothing special in the story apart from him actually telling it. I bet there are thousands of groups like that everywhere dreaming about their dream game for years. Some even get to the "failed Kickstarter" stage. Just because someone has some name recognition or an "industry veteran" doesn't mean that they can pull it off.

 

[Metro]

Got a good chuckle out of that. Now I know how Nosgoth came about!




Now that's truly impressive. Without a single line of code, the dude proclaims how he's now a believer and seen Carmack incarnate.

Honestly, there's nothing special in the story apart from him actually telling it. I bet there are thousands of groups like that everywhere dreaming about their dream game for years. Some even get to the "failed Kickstarter" stage. Just because someone has some name recognition or an "industry veteran" doesn't mean that they can pull it off.

Bitch, you make mobile games. STFU.

 

[mondblut]

Vijay even suggested that we think about doing a multiplayer e-sports title based in the universe.

Got a good chuckle out of that. Now I know how Nosgoth came about!

An e-sports title is what Arena was originally conceived to be in the first place, hence the name. Some dumb shit with team gladiatorial combat.