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Vapourware Daggerfall Unity isnt Vaporware

Miles Davis or John Coltrane?

  • Miles Davis

    Votes: 49 29.7%
  • John Coltrane

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  • Kenny G (kc response)

    Votes: 68 41.2%

  • Total voters
    165

Severian Silk

Guest
How big is the Daggerfall world compared to Skyrim? I wasn't interested in playing Daggerfall before, but those screenshots are impressive.

But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
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How big is the Daggerfall world compared to Skyrim? I wasn't interested in playing Daggerfall before, but those screenshots are impressive.

But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.
You can't really compare them, Daggerfall's map is like 10,000 Skyrims in size, but it's all procedurally generated. You don't really walk out in the open, just map-travel from city to dungeon to city.

Daggerfall doesn't have much of a story, you just do quests for people while they slowly reveal info & new quests. If you want story, your best bet is Morrowind.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Messages
5,739
I want this released, god dammit. It looks absolutely amazing, as seen in this video.

 

Sceptic

Arcane
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Divinity: Original Sin
But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.
Both Daggerfall and Morrowind do actually. Daggerfall's in particular is magnificent in its political twists and turns. Both games' stories excel at giving you contradictory versions of events depending on who you ask then letting you figure out for yourself what's really going on, Morrowind is probably the best attempt at this ever made in a video game. IDK how people fail to notice the stories in both games but eh.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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How big is the Daggerfall world compared to Skyrim? I wasn't interested in playing Daggerfall before, but those screenshots are impressive.
Daggerfall's overworld is supposedly around the size of Great Britain (80 thousand square miles), blowing Skyrim and almost every other 3D game ever made out of the water. However, precisely because it's so enormous, it would take a prohibitive amount of time to travel anywhere even on horseback, instead requiring use of the game's fast travel system that lets you journey to any location marked on your map with time passing instantly for a player and an appropriate number of days passing in-game. Procedural generation enabled the creation of such a vast area, but it's the 1:1 scale that results in the overworld being functionally inexplorable; though there is a cheat to vastly boost your speed, which I will take advantage of if this graphical improvement project ever comes to fruition.

Instead, most of the game is spent in the enormous dungeons, which are also created with procedural generation and which take full advantage of being 3D. The automap, which itself is three-dimensional and allows the player to zoom around and rotate it, is necessary just to keep from getting lost. When you aren't in a dungeon, you're spending time in the innumerable cities, towns, villages, and hamlets that dot the map. As with the rest of the overworld, the settlements are created in a 1:1 scale using procedural generation.

Daggerfall is a classic game and well worth playing, but don't be fooled by this thread's screenshots into thinking that it involves Morrowind-style wilderness exploration. Though it should be noted that Daggerfall made heavy use of sprite graphics (monsters, people) rather than being fully 3D, as a result of which its unmodded graphics have aged better than would be expected for a 3D game from 1996.

But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.
Both Daggerfall and Morrowind include copious amounts of story and lore relating to the main quest, albeit Daggerfall is relatively limited in the amount of material establishing the setting more broadly. Just don't expect to have many meaningful story choices (though there are a few).
 
Last edited:

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
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Swedish Empire
How big is the Daggerfall world compared to Skyrim? I wasn't interested in playing Daggerfall before, but those screenshots are impressive.
Daggerfall's overworld is supposedly around the size of Great Britain (80 thousand square miles), blowing Skyrim and almost every other 3D game ever made out of the water. However, precisely because it's so enormous, it would take a prohibitive amount of time to travel anywhere even on horseback, instead requiring use of the game's fast travel system that lets you journey to any location marked on your map with time passing instantly for a player and an appropriate number of days passing in-game. Procedural generation enabled the creation of such a vast area, but it's the 1:1 scale that results in the overworld being functionally inexplorable; though there is a cheat to vastly boost your speed, which I will take advantage of if this graphical improvement project ever comes to fruition.

Instead, most of the game is spent in the enormous dungeons, which are also created with procedural generation and which take full advantage of being 3D. The automap, which itself is three-dimensional and allows the player to zoom around and rotate it, is necessary just to keep from getting lost. When you aren't in a dungeon, you're spending time in the innumerable cities, towns, villages, and hamlets that dot the map. As with the rest of the overworld, the settlements are created in a 1:1 scale using procedural generation.

Daggerfall is a classic game and well worth playing, but don't be fooled by this thread's screenshots into thinking that it involves Morrowind-style wilderness exploration. Though it should be noted that Daggerfall made heavy use of sprite graphics (monsters, people) rather than being fully 3D, as a result of which its unmodded graphics have aged better than would be expected for a 3D game from 1996.

But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.
Both Daggerfall and Morrowind include copious amounts of story and lore relating to the main quest, albeit Daggerfall is relatively limited in the amount of material establishing the setting more broadly. Just don't expect to have many meaningful story choices (though there are a few).

BUT, with this new game engine's more open modding capabilites i am sure people will start creating stuff for the wilderness (also, i think they are pretty much forced to put the new stuff out there, since i think Interkarma said that cities in Daggerfall are hard to edit new stuff into since the game calculate those as game start.), ive seen Interkarma confirm on the forum that there will be "landmarks" other then dungeons spread about to find.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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Years ago, there were people working on High Res version of portraits and sprites for Dagger XL

Karethys.jpg


118d77bbeacf.png
c19c042db998.jpg

daggerfall_sprite_work_182_1_by_epicurius7-d3asn41.jpg

daggerfall_sprite_work_182_10_by_epicurius7-d3asn7s.jpg


http://xlengine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4

Almost all of it is now 404 file not found due to XL's eventual vaporwarerization. What a waste :negative:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6frS2edM5T2V3VjWGZ0NEd3SHM found some of the faces here, by Lutojar
 

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
How big is the Daggerfall world compared to Skyrim? I wasn't interested in playing Daggerfall before, but those screenshots are impressive.

But I am a storyfag and I don't think any of the TES games excel in that regard.

It's a realtime dungeon crawler. If the genre doesn't interest you, then obviously don't bother.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Will they alter the randomness of generic dungeons? Once you become a bit adept the only challenge left in the game was finding X in some random hole in the dungeon.
 

hakuroshi

Augur
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
589
You can real-travel in Daggerfall, it is just excruciatingly boring for vast majority of people. You can roughly estimate how long it will take to travel from one city to another by looking the number of days for reckless travel by horse and divide it by about 15 to get number or real time hours to ride. The ride in real time would take you less game-time then fast travel in most cases. It is very rarely might even be a factor, if, say, you are dying from some unnoticed disease. Also most covens are hidden, you get only Glenmoril location if you are a werebeast. Though they are almost impossible to find by random riding - if the square (about 6 minutes real-time to cross) contain anything it is always a tiny location in the middle. It is very easy to miss anything except very large cities.
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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Swedish Empire
Questing Part 2 – Compiling
Posted on November 2, 2016 by Interkarma


In the first part of this series, I discussed how I’ll be using source files output by Tipton’s Template v1.11 for quests in Daggerfall Unity. If you’d like to check these out in full, the quest source files are already on GitHub. Follow this link to view them (ignore the .meta files).

Some interesting quest files to investigate are:

  • _BRISIEN.txt – This is the quest that launches when player starts in Privateer’s Hold. It sets the whole story arc in motion and starts timers for delivering letters that prompt player to visit Lady Brisienna. Failing to visit Lady B in time is ultimately a failure condition of main quest.
  • S0000999.txt – Starts when you leave Privateer’s Hold. Delivers letters from Prince Lhotun and Morgiah and sets key global variables.
  • S0000977.txt – Also starts when leaving Privateer’s Hold. Sets up regular ghost and wraith spawns in Daggerfall and plays the VENGEANCE! sound.
  • TUTOR.txt – Is the tutorial quest started when selecting Yes to the prompt at start of game.
As another interesting tidbit, longtime players may have noticed the initial journal entry that begins with…

"I am on a mission from the emperor to investigate
the shade of King Lysandus. His spirit has been
haunting the city of Daggerfall. The emperor
himself has charged me with the duty of laying
his ghost to rest."

…will stick around in your log forever. Even after you’ve completed the game, this first journal entry will remain. As part of researching the quest system a while back, I looked into why this was happening and found the above journal entry is added twice and removed only once. The below image sums it up visually. You may have already seen this when I posted it to Twitter back in September.





So the quest system in Daggerfall is quite powerful. It’s responsible for adding and removing journal text, starting timers, delivering letters, spawning enemies, playing sounds, setting global variables, moving NPCs, and a slew of other functions. At first blush it can appear a lot like a full programming language, but it’s only superficially so. The structure is actually more like a complex INI file, or even a kind of markup file. Everything is neatly categorized into its own section and execution flow generally only happens in a few different ways. Most commonly are at startup, when a timer ends, and due to a variable or condition changing state.

Thus despite the initial similarity to a programming language, the quest source is really just a collection of defined objects with some very basic scripting functions. Most of these functions revolve around spawning something, starting something, playing something, or changing something. Complex enough to get the job done, but don’t feel like you need to be a programming expert to create new quests in the future. Using Tipton’s Template v1.11, you could even start creating quests in classic Daggerfall now and later port them into Daggerfall Unity.

Likewise, the job of compiling the quest source back into Daggerfall Unity is not that difficult. It’s going to have some challenges, but nothing on the scale of building a real compiler, something I thought I’d be facing at the outset. The problem is largely just splitting source file up into correct parts and handing that source off to classes designed to support that part. For example, messages will go to a Message class, timers will go to a Timer class, etc. When serializing live quests as part of save games, the QuestMachine will save/load JSON state for each live quest along with the global variables for the current game.

To help Daggerfall Unity re-compile Template’s source output, I’m going to make some minor changes to the expected source files. I’m trying to keep these changes to an absolute minimum.

First change is for the quest header to be uncommented in source file. For example, _BRISIEN has the following header. The dash ‘-‘ prefix starts a comment.

-- StartsBy: letter
-- Questee: anyone
-- Repute: 0
-- QuestId: 0

This reason this can be commented out is that Template is designed to re-compile quests back into the original QBN/QRC format. When commented out, Template will just use the information already in the quest QBN data. However, Daggerfall Unity relies entirely on the quest source and will need the above uncommented to:

StartsBy: letter
Questee: anyone
Repute: 0
QuestId: 0

This way the information can be parsed back into the quest data at compile time.

The second change is that I would like an explicit startup task, rather than an implicit startup after the QBN object definitions (like Person, Clock, etc.). Currently the startup task looks like this:

-- Quest start-up:
log 1010 step 0
pc at PiratesHold set _exitstarter_
say 1025

I would like to change this to:

startup:
log 1010 step 0
pc at PiratesHold set _exitstarter_
say 1025

This makes the startup task an explicit task object to be executed when quest begins. This is already the current behaviour, but I think this change makes the task clearer to identify for both quest creators (even without a comment) and for my compiler. I could definitely get away without this change, but I prefer the explicitness to the current setup.

And of course, the above is subject to change as the quest system matures. If I learned anything from rolling out items, the feature will probably look different again by the time it’s mostly complete. Daggerfall Unity is not just a game remake, it’s an ongoing research project into the guts of Daggerfall. That adds a few twists outside of normal gamedev process, and I just need to roll with it.

One of the upcoming features not shown yet is the quest debugger currently in development. Hopefully, I will have something to show on this by part 3. The quest debugger will be used to manually start new quests, terminate and restart executing quests, and inspect state of global variables and quest objects. It’s a big UI that will continue to grow as development progresses. Should turn out to be quite useful though.



For more frequent updates on Daggerfall Unity, follow me on Twitter @gav_clayton.
 

V_K

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at a Nowhere near you
Fuck you, guys.

*it's "shite" actually, and it's never used as a verb, to my knowledge.
**there's also a past simple form "shat" but it doesn't fit grammatically either.
***summoning Neanderthal in case I got it all wrong.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,468
I dont know why bethesda doesn't simply remaster daggerfall with current gen graphics, update and get rid of game engine flaws. Or better yet release a spiritual sequel for phones and PC. I mean how hard could it be the game has zero content for the most part being procedually generated garbage and I bet normies will eat it up and it would sell like hot cakes if they market it well and tap into the phone market.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,870
Perfectly fine visuals for anyone who's not a popamole graphics whore.
I'd say the color palette is a bit too cartoony, but besides that, yeah.


How does this work in Unity exactly, does the engine support procedural generation on the fly as you travel?
 

agris

Arcane
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Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,927
The problem with that shot and others is that the roofs all look like they're covered in grass. It blends in with the ground texture.
 

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