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Dark and Darker

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,437
I'm not sure what is happening anymore.
Nexon is suing Dark and Darker for allegedly stealing assets, and Dark and Darker is suing Dark for copying their game? Something like that? Just grab some popcorn I guess.
 

Cogemesiter

Novice
Joined
May 1, 2024
Messages
65
I looked up some stuff and wtf, “multiclassing” what’s even the point of classes then?
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,713
Location
Kelethin
Multiclassing in games is usually more about mixing 2 classes together and it restricts both to balance it. I doubt it lets you pick more than 2.
 

Cogemesiter

Novice
Joined
May 1, 2024
Messages
65
Multiclassing in games is usually more about mixing 2 classes together and it restricts both to balance it. I doubt it lets you pick more than 2.
I personally hate that concept. Classes should be distinct yet compliment one another (pve) or have strengths and weaknesses (pvp).
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,201
Meh, this is maybe one of the least bad instances of "F2P" I've ever seen, almost to the point of it not really even being so in my eyes. Basically you have an infinite "trial period" in which you can only progress one character and you don't have access to a game mode that a huge amount of the community doesn't play anyway. When you want to play around with more characters, have a little extra storage, and access said underutilized game mode, you pay $30 to exit your trial period. I don't see anything like pay to win or grind tactics involved here. Don't know why anyone would see anything wrong with this approach.
 

Myobi

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,437
where are the doomsayers now? :lol:
Exactly there, it seems...

darker.jpg
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,291
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Apparently they removed the circle that slowly closed in on you, which basically means the people who aren't dying to the NPCs already, have little to no reason to meet up in the dungeon due to being pushed towards the same area. Many people just end up camping the spawns of the portals to extract. Way to ruin the game.

HR lobbies still have a major cheating problem as well, and without anti-cheat, the game will die sooner or later. The 30$ entry cost to be able to play HR lobbies in the first place has not stopped the problem whatsoever, it seems.
 

H. P. Lovecraft's Cat

SumDrunkCat
Joined
Feb 7, 2024
Messages
2,028
So this is basically a coop horde game ala Vermintide, but also with pvp elements. That's fucking gay. There's already way too much of this shit.
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,201
So this is basically a coop horde game ala Vermintide, but also with pvp elements. That's fucking gay. There's already way too much of this shit.
No, it's not a horde game, nor is it particularly like Vermintide. You don't have endless hordes of enemies that you're hacking up, but rather fairly small but deadly encounters that you find while exploring a dungeon. The pvp element is that you're coming in contact with other rival adventurers who are exploring the same dungeon. It's basically a highly lethal co-op dungeon crawl with pvp.
 

Cogemesiter

Novice
Joined
May 1, 2024
Messages
65
It’s kind of sad to see this game go from having so much potential 1.5 years ago to now being close to forgotten.
 

Eisen

Learned
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
691
They should've made a Ultima Underworld inspired game, singleplayer of course
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,201
being close to forgotten.
What are you talking about? The game has 25,000 concurrent players just on steam. It's in early access, still being developed, and just made a comeback from a massive hurdle that was out of their control. Now they have to get over a hurdle they made themselves as a result of that situation, but they are far from being forgotten. What a weird takeaway.

For those who didn't see it, this is why they decided to release it free on steam, and what all the hub-bub is about.

The Philosophy Behind Our Free To Play Model
Our thoughts on Free To Play and our promise to early supporters.
Hello new adventurers!
Our launch on Steam and Epic Games marks a major milestone in the availability of Dark and Darker.

We would like to address the Free to Play label. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear, and would like to explain the reasons behind our current Free to Play model. We would also like to clear up any misunderstandings and layout our plans going forward. We apologize to anyone who felt misled by the game being marketed as Free to Play and acknowledge that we should have chosen a better method to introduce it in that regard. Throughout the game’s Early Access development, the game was always a paid product, and we intend for the full experience to remain this way. This ensures we uphold our promise to our loyal early adopters, and helps combat cheaters along with RMT to keep the dungeons clean for all to enjoy.

The main reason we released our game as Free to Play (F2P) was because we made a promise to our early loyal adopters on Blacksmith, that we’d do everything possible to not force them to repurchase the game again if it went to major platforms. We do not believe in double-dipping or taking advantage of our fans who are the sole reason we’ve come this far.

When we had the opportunity to release the game on the Epic Games Store and Steam platform we were thrilled to be back on large global platforms. However, due to the large number of previous customers on Blacksmith, it was not feasible nor fair to our platform partners for us to distribute thousands of keys to Blacksmith customers for free, increasing their risk with little benefit to them. The solution to overcome the technical, logistical and contractual hurdles we faced was to transition to a Free to Play model which would allow our current customers to naturally transition to a partner platform of their choice without the use of any abusable keys.

When we designed our current free to play system, our intention was to ensure that previous customers did not feel as if they were taken advantage of for supporting us. We wanted to make sure they felt properly compensated for their loyalty while still feeling excited for the new transition to a free to play version.

As a bit of context and history, we implemented the current Normal game mode that restricted items to common grade back in November of 2023 where it quickly became a fan favorite. Our Blacksmith players saw the mode as a solution to a divisive item gap disparity and many viewed the mode as the most fair and balanced mode rather than a limiting system. We decided to open the Normal mode to the free version precisely because of its high value to the community. We naively thought this mode would be compelling enough for incoming players since they got access to the most popular and accessible mode in the game for free. We had failed to take into consideration how brand-new players not knowing the development context would have a different perceived value for this mode, and how it could easily be construed as us trying to bait and switch them. This is the farthest thing from the truth as we are continually striving to find fair and open ways to run an online game while respecting our loyal customers.

A secondary reason for restricting free players to the Normal mode was to act as a barrier, and lower the incentives for hackers to disrupt the game. Like many other competitive online games, we face the challenge of fighting those that look for advantages through unfair means. We knew that once we went free to play, we would be sending an open invitation to hackers around the world. In our quest against hackers, our bans show they almost exclusively attempt to exploit the High-Roller dungeons as that was where their exploits would bear the most fruit. Limiting hackers with free accounts to the less disruptive Normal modes was also a preventative measure to try and compartmentalize the damage they could do.

When releasing our Squire and Legendary account models, our intent was to offer a free version of the game that had no time limit. This would give players a commitment-free opportunity to see what Dark and Darker has to offer. The free account status allows players to experience Normal mode dungeons with a single character, stash the loot they acquire, and complete quests. This improves their standing with the merchants - improving pricing and wares, while also expanding the arsenal of items the Squire merchant provides players with.

Despite our intentions, we failed in anticipating the expectations that new players would have when approaching our game. We did not intend to deceive our players, and we now realize that the current Normal/High Roller bifurcation is not well designed for F2P players. We built a full loot extraction game and then forced upon a large contingent of the player-base the inability to utilize their hard-earned loot without any workarounds. We now understand the absurdity of that situation and are looking to make amends.

We are currently working on solutions that take into consideration both the needs of existing and new players. Our goal is to give new players the ability to experience a complete loop of a full loot extraction experience and risk their loot while still respecting the loyalty of our existing players. We’re still working on the details for that plan that will address access to the High-Roller dungeons, the ability to unlock character slots, and will make an announcement very soon as the details are finalized. Our goal is to be fair and just with our players, and we’ll do our best to show our appreciation. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your incredible support over the past two years as we work to make Dark and Darker the best it can be. We could not ask for a better, more passionate community – thank you for holding the line!

IRONMACE

So not the most elegant solution to the problem, but understandable.
 
Last edited:

Cogemesiter

Novice
Joined
May 1, 2024
Messages
65
being close to forgotten.
What are you talking about? The game has 25,000 concurrent players just on steam. It's in early access, still being developed, and just made a comeback from a massive hurdle that was out of their control. Now they have to get over a hurdle they made themselves as a result of that situation, but they are far from being forgotten. What a weird takeaway.

For those who didn't see it, this is why they decided to release it free on steam, and what all the hub-bub is about.

The Philosophy Behind Our Free To Play Model
Our thoughts on Free To Play and our promise to early supporters.
Hello new adventurers!
Our launch on Steam and Epic Games marks a major milestone in the availability of Dark and Darker.

We would like to address the Free to Play label. We’ve heard your feedback loud and clear, and would like to explain the reasons behind our current Free to Play model. We would also like to clear up any misunderstandings and layout our plans going forward. We apologize to anyone who felt misled by the game being marketed as Free to Play and acknowledge that we should have chosen a better method to introduce it in that regard. Throughout the game’s Early Access development, the game was always a paid product, and we intend for the full experience to remain this way. This ensures we uphold our promise to our loyal early adopters, and helps combat cheaters along with RMT to keep the dungeons clean for all to enjoy.

The main reason we released our game as Free to Play (F2P) was because we made a promise to our early loyal adopters on Blacksmith, that we’d do everything possible to not force them to repurchase the game again if it went to major platforms. We do not believe in double-dipping or taking advantage of our fans who are the sole reason we’ve come this far.

When we had the opportunity to release the game on the Epic Games Store and Steam platform we were thrilled to be back on large global platforms. However, due to the large number of previous customers on Blacksmith, it was not feasible nor fair to our platform partners for us to distribute thousands of keys to Blacksmith customers for free, increasing their risk with little benefit to them. The solution to overcome the technical, logistical and contractual hurdles we faced was to transition to a Free to Play model which would allow our current customers to naturally transition to a partner platform of their choice without the use of any abusable keys.

When we designed our current free to play system, our intention was to ensure that previous customers did not feel as if they were taken advantage of for supporting us. We wanted to make sure they felt properly compensated for their loyalty while still feeling excited for the new transition to a free to play version.

As a bit of context and history, we implemented the current Normal game mode that restricted items to common grade back in November of 2023 where it quickly became a fan favorite. Our Blacksmith players saw the mode as a solution to a divisive item gap disparity and many viewed the mode as the most fair and balanced mode rather than a limiting system. We decided to open the Normal mode to the free version precisely because of its high value to the community. We naively thought this mode would be compelling enough for incoming players since they got access to the most popular and accessible mode in the game for free. We had failed to take into consideration how brand-new players not knowing the development context would have a different perceived value for this mode, and how it could easily be construed as us trying to bait and switch them. This is the farthest thing from the truth as we are continually striving to find fair and open ways to run an online game while respecting our loyal customers.

A secondary reason for restricting free players to the Normal mode was to act as a barrier, and lower the incentives for hackers to disrupt the game. Like many other competitive online games, we face the challenge of fighting those that look for advantages through unfair means. We knew that once we went free to play, we would be sending an open invitation to hackers around the world. In our quest against hackers, our bans show they almost exclusively attempt to exploit the High-Roller dungeons as that was where their exploits would bear the most fruit. Limiting hackers with free accounts to the less disruptive Normal modes was also a preventative measure to try and compartmentalize the damage they could do.

When releasing our Squire and Legendary account models, our intent was to offer a free version of the game that had no time limit. This would give players a commitment-free opportunity to see what Dark and Darker has to offer. The free account status allows players to experience Normal mode dungeons with a single character, stash the loot they acquire, and complete quests. This improves their standing with the merchants - improving pricing and wares, while also expanding the arsenal of items the Squire merchant provides players with.

Despite our intentions, we failed in anticipating the expectations that new players would have when approaching our game. We did not intend to deceive our players, and we now realize that the current Normal/High Roller bifurcation is not well designed for F2P players. We built a full loot extraction game and then forced upon a large contingent of the player-base the inability to utilize their hard-earned loot without any workarounds. We now understand the absurdity of that situation and are looking to make amends.

We are currently working on solutions that take into consideration both the needs of existing and new players. Our goal is to give new players the ability to experience a complete loop of a full loot extraction experience and risk their loot while still respecting the loyalty of our existing players. We’re still working on the details for that plan that will address access to the High-Roller dungeons, the ability to unlock character slots, and will make an announcement very soon as the details are finalized. Our goal is to be fair and just with our players, and we’ll do our best to show our appreciation. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your incredible support over the past two years as we work to make Dark and Darker the best it can be. We could not ask for a better, more passionate community – thank you for holding the line!

IRONMACE

So not the most elegant solution to the problem, but understandable.
If I’m not mistaken the last time Dark and Darker was on steam it had around 120-150k players. I hope I’m wrong but Dark and Darker looks like it could be the next Marauders.
 

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