It seems to me that the longer this tirade goes on the longer VD reveals himself, through his posts, as serving nothing more than as a purpose to ignorantly skew details, argue false facts, take things out of context, flame and troll everybody else. To be frank it's getting a little tired.
Think of it as a disclaimer to stop you from whining.
Flamebait.
And once again, Bio is known for several responses leading to the same thing, context or not.
Groundless assumptions based on false facts. Volourn has proven you wrong with a few of his examples. I can name more from BG2:
Various methods of getting into the Asylum.
Most of the quests related to Edwin/Edwina
All of the Keep quests.
Dealing with Firkraag
Helping the Thieves Guild or the Nightblades
The Skindancer quests
The Shadow Druid quests
Anomen
From TOB: The various alignment changing quests
Have you actually played Bio games, Volourn? Had responses affected their games, Bio would have been praised now as a pillar of the hardcore role-playing community.
Why do you lie?
That again. Well, we do now. Considering that it's getting harder and harder to find a purebred RPG, we had to broad our horizons. We have agreed that any game where you play a role (like Mario or that marine in Doom) are RPGs, we have also accepted Dr. Greg's definition that any game where you have fun is an RPG. That certainly opened up doors for a lot of games we couldn't cover earlier.
More skewed details, responses taken out of context and an utterlyly imbecillic display of ignorance on your behalf. Greg said he likes to make games that he considers fun, not that he considers all fun games to be RPGs, you fucking jackass. He never actually answered the question, did he?
Aha! I knew it. Nobody can say that NWN was good with a straight face unless they didn't play it.
More flame bait. Is this supposed to serve any other purpose?
Fuck off.
Yeah, like talking to Garth or Mission or even that guy at the starting ship.
You must save Bastilla!
- I don't want to, fuck off
- After I save myself
- Yay! I get to save somebody!
And that represents all of the other choices you make in KOTOR? No, it does not. Compare that to Doc Morbid's dialogue in Fallout:
"Do you want some healing?"
1) I could use some healing.
2) Yes.
3) No, I was just looking around.
The first response dissapears the 2nd time you talk to him. If you say no, he'll say 'It's your life, not mine" or something like that. If you say yes and then say no after he tells you how much he'll charge to fix you up, he'll say the same thing.
If you go downstairs and talk to the midget cutting up the body parts and go back upstairs to talk to him, you are given a 4th dialogue option, "What's with the human body parts?" to which he will respond, "You better get outta here." and his reaction will be lowered towards you.
There is nothing beyond that. You can't choose to blackmail him or even blackmail the shorty down there. You're given the exact same dialogue choices from the shorty but the 4th option from Doc Morbid isn't available to you anymore.
Now, if I were to cite this as an example of ALL of Fallout's dialogue the way you did with KOTOR, it would certainly look bad, in the sense that I am skewing the facts in order to support my inane, absolutist claim that the game is bereft of choices.
Sure, there are some plot points where what you say counts, but 9/10 cases it doesn't.
Why do you lie?
We can't, brand recognition and all that shite
The bullshit response quotient on the RPG Codex forums is higher now, than it has ever been.
True, but you forgot the first definition - can play a role of something (like a role of a guy who just spent $50 and now he MUST enjoy the game to get his money worth)
Weak. Your responses are mindnumbingly vapid.
So, that's what turns you on? You are weird, you know?
Childish and immature. You remind me of a local TV host Jason Lo. Nothing but sex-related remarks come out of his mouth. It's not funny, and people often tell him off for it. You're being the same way, and I'm telling you off for it.
Since when was sex a funny subject? 5th Grade?
More like the only example from every game. Next!
Sorry, what? I wasn't listening. Are you on your period right now?
Proving your age again, are you? Listen kid, periods aren't funny. If you want to talk about periods, at least make it funny. When Saint calls BIS fanboys "estrogenated" and describes them in some amusing manner, that's funny and worth mentioning for the quality of the humor alone. Periods as an independent subject aren't funny.
Out of context? It's clear to anybody who's ever played Bio games that in most cases the dialogue choices are not there to choose, but to provide additional info or set some light mood for your character. Yes, of course, there are some choices, my anal-retentive friend, but mostly, there aren't.
Translation: "That is 100% correct, and it's also 10% wrong."
Learn mathematics, as furthermore it helps with any issues you may have with logic and problem-solving skills.
Hey, David, long time no see. I did see the entire thread and I realize that it was just an opinion, not a design guideline. I just felt, like I said to Volourn, that in many, many cases the dialogue choices weren't there to actually choose anything, but to provide some additional info or define your character for the player (vs defining your character in the gameworld). After I read what you wrote, although it was meant as a "response to a very specific topic", it was also a good explanation of the way dialogue choices were used before.
You admit that you took David's words out of context to fit your own bullshit agenda and conveniently left out the details which put his words IN context. You can't get any more contrite than that.
There is no shortage of snarky (un)witticisms with you on the clock.
Yep. I knew that you were lazy, biased, unreasonable, typo-magnet, with a taste for cross-dressing (sometimes you are a boy, sometimes you are a girl), but really really weird? As in "fucked up" weird? No. It was a surprise. Smile
Welcome to 5th grade, everyone.
Still trying to win on technicality? As before, if winning is so important to you, be my guest.
I don't know what's worse. Trying to win on a 'technicality' or trying to win on an argument based solely on intellectually bereft assumptions, childish remarks, skewed facts and ignorant displays of 'omissions' of the truth (what others might refer to as lies). Volourn's argument was grounded in facts, so it wasn't a 'technicality', unless you consider facts to be a technicality whenever it comes to an argument.
Volourn, I look at the game overall. Take ToEE for example, we all say there is no story, although *technically* there is. We say that quests sucks, although technically there are a few that are good. We say that Arcanum was non-linear although technically there were a few places that forced you to do things in sequence. We say that Fallout had multiple solutions, but there were quests that could only be solved one way. Have I made my point yet?
False dichotomies, all of them.
A few that were good? I don't know what game you were playing but it wasn't TOEE. Name one quest in TOEE that was good and didn't last roughly 2 seconds to complete. Yo chose a bad example. Arcanum was non-linear overall, but what does that have to do with anything? Fallout, as a whole, had multiple solutions (we're talking about whole games, aren't we?) even though there were many quests that could only be solved in a single manner. The same is with KOTOR: there were many quests that could only be solved in a single manner but as a whole, it featured multiple solutions. I don't see why you'd have to make an exception to that.
Your point is fallacious as are most of the things you've written in this thread.
Who's gonna ask your character? They drew straws because nobody was eager to go. You play the role of a character who lost. Your character didn't have that choice, which fits the setting.
It fits the setting? Try harder. If Fallout were truly a game about non-linearity it would, like other truly non-linear games allow you to choose where you started instead of forcing you into the shoes of the guy who comes from Vault 13. There is no argument that Fallout is a non-linear game from then on but to claim that Fallout is the most non-linear game ever made or whatever it is you're saying, would be blatantly false.
You would argue about everything, you little chatterbox, wouldn't you? So, why doesn't that fit the setting (the vault part of it)? Do you think that a guy who lives in a vault can choose what he wants to do, when he wants to do, and how he wants to do it?
Again, why does he have to come from Vault 13? It's got nothing to do with the setting. It's how the story was written. The story does not exist independently of the writer's concept no matter what radical beliefs you might have pertaining to this matter. Tim Cain set out to create a focused RPG title, as opposed to a free-form Rogue-like title. He succeeded. To claim that it is 'non linear' because it 'fits the setting' is what I would call a straw man argument.
Nothing? Oh, I see. You mean that proving you wrong has distracted you from talking out of your ass which you mistook for a discussion?
Yet more childish insults presented in manner of an argument when they in fact deserve no more worthwhile attention than a tight slap.
It's a vault, not a cottage. You are not having a good safe time down there, you work with the rest to maintain the vault. As in any closed location (a ship or a submarine), discipline and following orders are necessary and anything less won't be tolerated. When the straws are drawn, those who drew the long ones would gladly ensure that the one with the short one leaves the vault - more remaining water for them plus a chance that the unlucky one won't fail.
Your arguments for a non-linear Fallout have thus far been a failure pertaining to the manner in which you have chosen to present the game. It is beyond understanding as to why, in a 'truly non-linear game' (I paraphrase) the player should be constricted to saving the Vault and doing nothing else. Disclosing the information of the Vault's whereabouts to the Supermutant Army or to The Master presents the player with a false ending (better known as a Game Over Screen). This course of action does not present the player with the 'after events' screen that takes place in the course of having a 'proper' ending and the further removal of the Supermutant-related invasion reduces much of the game's replayability and non-linearity factors.
Your last point pertaining to the survivability of the Vault Dweller is blatantly untrue. Without weapon skills, your player is left with a handicap in the face of stern combat opposition. There is no talking your way out of a Deathclaw battle.
You have thus far managed to earn yourself the dubious distinction of being the RPG Codex's
most immature contributor due to your inane 'contributions' in discussions like these. Even Gromnir, an individual who isn't usually cited as someone with good behaviour has managed to stay on topic with his worthwhile contributions to the discussion without straying from factual reference and a solid position.
Your false dichotomies are not well appreciated.
