Development Info David Gaider on settings culture & history

[Transcendent One]

Actually all quests in ToEE take moe than 2 seconds, cause of all the back and forth walking you have to do from one end of town to the next roughly five times per quest.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Yeah they're not exactly complicated. Hommlet alone is more tedious than all of the fed-ex quests in Morrowind put together, at least those gave you good rewards, and you could always finish them whenever you were 'on your way' to the locations.

 

[Dgaider]

as we understand it, the cost of doing multiple translations of a game is kinda expensive. to be totally honest, we not sure if publishers care ‘bout word count save in relationship to publishing costs… but no doubt dave could enlighten us... and seeing as how we ain't really welcome at bio no more, perhaps we can get an answer here.

For a while, starting at the end of BG2 and continuing through to NWN, we had a very draconian word count to work under when writing. And by word count I mean the total number of words written (there were also limits to the words per "block" of text and the number of blocks allowed before some kind of player input was required... but these were more guidelines than hard limitations).

The major reason for this was indeed the cost of localization. It may not seem like much, but when you have a game that is intended for translation into many different languages it adds up. To a lesser degree I suppose it also involves an attempt to manage how much was being written and therefore how long it took to write.

As I said, we've definitely steered away from that. Maybe it's because we left Interplay, I'm not sure... it could also be because Bioware is more successful and has more power of self-determination? At any rate, the focus now is definitely on letting us just write and write well, regardless of localization costs (and now voiceover costs, too). Indeed, I am a little surprised at the relatively free reign we are given in Dragon Age. It certainly makes me happy from a creative aspect.

I disagree that there was much dialogue in KotOR where player responses all led to the same lines. I know I did very little of that myself, at any rate. I suppose there are some characters which don't have much dialogue, period, and might have done such just because they were very short... but as someone else pointed out above you'll probably find that in just about any game; it's hardly unique to us.

Incidentally, on a personal note to Gromnir: I'm not really certain what the hostility is about on the Bioware boards. You might be a bit caustic with your points at times, certainly, but I always found what you had to say at the very least thought-provoking. I must admit that I visit the forums much more rarely these days, myself.

As to those who mentioned my presence: I do pop onto the Codex from time to time to check out what is being discussed (as I do on various other sites... it's an interest of mine, not surprisingly). I don't usually respond because I sometimes am attacked, but when my name is invoked like any evil entity I feel the need to make my presence felt.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Hey David, don't take what Vault Dweller says to heart. He's full of shit whenever he tries to pretend he represents the opinion of everybody here..

 

[Whipporowill]

Hey David, don't take what Vault Dweller says to heart. He's full of shit whenever he tries to pretend he represents the opinion of everybody here..

As are you my friend. As are we all.

 

[Sol Invictus]

What the hell are you talking about? I never try to represent any opinion other than my own.

 

[Astromarine]

I'm becoming of the opinion, reading Ex's latest posts, that Volournosity is contagious. I'm scared now

 

[RGE]

The major reason for this was indeed the cost of localization. It may not seem like much, but when you have a game that is intended for translation into many different languages it adds up.

I never even thought about localization. School, TV and the Internet taught me english well enough, so as long as a computer game is developed in that language, I don't need translations. And since Sweden is such a small market, I don't have to worry about companies trying to sell localized versions either. Well, except for the manuals, but in the case of NWN only a small part was translated into swedish (and danish, finnish and norwegian).

I still remember the swedish manual for Syndicate Wars, where some nitwit had translated minigun into "minivapen", which equals "miniweapon", which in turn reminds me of the tiny revolver some guy hid in his ear in a Lucky Luke comic book. It wouldn't surprise me if they used some kind of automated thing for translating that manual, because in a lot of places the translation was that bad.

But word count or not, one thing that's nice about Fallout 2 is the way most NPCs get their point across with very little text. So not only is there a high ratio of content vs fluff in the dialogue options, but also in the resulting texts. So while the words were spread thin over a lot of NPCs, I really think that increased the meaning of the words spoken by each NPC, while also making it easy for the player to quickly get that meaning. So if there is a word count limit, I think that would be the best way to go. Not having a few NPCs hog most of the dialogue, but instead letting many NPCs make their own points.

 

[Vault Dweller]

God Exitium, did VD kill your mom or something? What's with the sudden obsession/hatred for him?

I just proved a few times that Exit is a stupid, iconsistent, hypocritical moron. (See that 14-page NMA announcement discussion for references). Naturally, he's upset about it, and trying to get back at me. Too bad he's too stupid to pull that off.

Btw, Exit, I will reply to all that crap you pulled out of your ass, but I have things to do at the moment, so wait for a few hours, will you? Your patience is appreciated. :wink:

Also, just for the record, I have never ever flamed or was disrespectful to David directly or otherwise. We disagreed a lot though, but that's different.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Word counts are the bane of good writing. Imagine if you will, Lord of the Rings condensed into 10000 words or less.

I just proved a few times that Exit is a stupid, iconsistent, hypocritical moron. (See that 14-page NMA announcement discussion for references). Naturally, he's upset about it, and trying to get back at me. Too bad he's too stupid to pull that off.

What? I hardly proved myself hypocritical or inconsistent in the NMA thread. Perhaps some actual reference would help. Taking my words out of context (e.g. "I like black cars" vs "I like white girls" and turning it into "I like black" and "I like white" and arguing OMG MAKE UP YOUR MIND DO YOU LIKE BLACKS OR WHITES YOU FUCKING MORON?!) is what you do best. That said, it's not some personal vendetta I have against you for 'proving' me to be a 'stupid, inconsistent, hypocritical moron'. It's for your inconsistent bullshitting, immature replies, unconstructive arguments and your constant backpeddling whenever someone manages to prove you wrong on any subject you decide to open your mouth to speak of. Before I forget, what other kind of moron is there?

By the way, it would be nice if you could actually win arguments. As it is, all you do is insult your opponents and make silly claims about how you've 'already won' without any way or thing to back up your fallacious claims. For once, it would be nice to see you participate in a discussion without referring to people as 'stupid morons' because you're so totally e-hardcore. Keep flexing those e-muscles, you internet tough guy.

At least Rosh's arguments have a point to them, and he doesn't backpaddle: because he doesn't need to.

Btw, Exit, I will reply to all that crap you pulled out of your ass, but I have things to do at the moment, so wait for a few hours, will you? Your patience is appreciated. Wink

If this was your reply, I am deeply dissapointed. I would expect someone with so much bullshit to spew to come up with something better than "u r not worth my time LOL! I AM KING OF THE WORLD" See? I just took your words out of context and voila, I became you.

Also, just for the record, I have never ever flamed or was disrespectful to David directly or otherwise. We disagreed a lot though, but that's different.

Snarky replies like 'ps how is dragon age LOL!!!" constitute as flamebait. I'll be sure to keep this on record the next time you flame or 'disrespect' someone.

p.s. before you decide to go and spout off about how it was 'you' (as in VD) who proved me wrong rather than 'I', and how I'm just being inconsistent in this very post for referring to myself instead of giving you credit, I would suggest learning some advanced English and a linguistic term known as 'paraphrasing'. It's been evident thus far that your abilities at comprehension have been nothing short of mediocre.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Ladies and gentlemen, please fasten your seatbelts. We are about to enter a Board Drama zone.

 

[Mnemon]

Imagine if you will, Lord of the Rings condensed into 10000 words or less.

That's been done. The Fellowship of the ring, The Two Towers and The Return of the King ultra-condensed. They have all sorts of literature and movies in similar fashion on that page.

-Mnemon

P.S. My favourite still is their short version of the movie Mortal Combat

 

[dirk]

yeah but y'know...an image speaks a thousand words. So really it's...295000000 words lol

 

[Sol Invictus]

You would have hurt my feelings if I had any

Comedy gold.

 

[Sheriff05]

What the hell are you talking about? I never try to represent any opinion other than my own.

That sure is some priceless fucking bullshit.
You frequently post news that is littered with your fucked up opinions and you ARE listed as RPGCodex staff member.
Your keyboard diarreah has a direct connection to the *public image* of the site.
If you are going to post 5000+ words a day here, don't fucking dare try to act like your "above it all".
If you want to disassociate yourself from the sites identity,
stop posting news, remove yourself as a staff member, shut the fuck up to the tune of 500 words a day or less and remove *www.rpgcodex.com* from your sig
Any of that make sense you hypocritical little bastard?

Now Please go back to lobbying for the job as Gaiders houseboy, I love it when the Bio guys show up here and so many of you pucker up :D

 

[Nicolai]

You know, this thread is just like an episode of Hotel Cæsar.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What? I hardly proved myself hypocritical or inconsistent in the NMA thread. Perhaps some actual reference would help.

Sure, no problem. You should see a doctor about the memory loss though.

I also don't see what's so non linear about TOEE

Few posts later

Who give's an ape's shit if the game was non-linear. It wasn't exactly high on replayability either.

...

Success and failure are not a matter of fucking opinion, VD. You just can't generalize a subject and say 'it's subjective about whether it succeeded or failed'.

Few posts later

It succeeded from certain industrial points of view, mainly the industries that supply the war effort. It was not a military success

...

The thing about hypothetical situations is that they are, make-believe to which the word 'hypothetical' itself refers. They have no grounding, or basis in reality, and give no sane person a reason to act upon them or make any judgments or decisions pertaining to them or even equate them with any value whatsoever....

Hypotheticals are pointless. Please don't bring them up, ever. Next?

In another thread

I'm sure Ray Muzyka didn't leave it to Dave Gaider to get LucasArts to pull the wordcount. But that's exactly what Troika seems to be doing.

Did that help?

That said, it's not some personal vendetta I have against you for 'proving' me to be a 'stupid, inconsistent, hypocritical moron'. It's for your inconsistent bullshitting, immature replies, unconstructive arguments and your constant backpeddling whenever someone manages to prove you wrong on any subject you decide to open your mouth to speak of.

You know what the major difference between you and me, Exit? I can prove my claims, you can't. That makes you a fucking full of shit liar. Disagree? Post an example or shut the fuck up.

For once, it would be nice to see you participate in a discussion without referring to people as 'stupid morons' because you're so totally e-hardcore.

Uh, have I ever insulted your first, Rex? Yet you are just unable to maintain a normal discussion. We can follow up on every argument we've ever had, starting from the one where you, a fucking teenager in Asia was trying to pretend that you know shit about business in NA. Several times, Rex, I was the one who stopped the flame war first, because we are part of the same thing here, and I didn't want to turn every thread into a flame war. Yet every time, you were unable to discuss things in a civil and respectful manner, you immature little dumb prick who can't put the interests of the site above your own pathetic vendetta.

At least Rosh's arguments have a point to them, and he doesn't backpaddle: because he doesn't need to.

Prove. Your. Bullshit.

Also, just for the record, I have never ever flamed or was disrespectful to David directly or otherwise. We disagreed a lot though, but that's different.

Snarky replies like 'ps how is dragon age LOL!!!" constitute as flamebait. I'll be sure to keep this on record the next time you flame or 'disrespect' someone.

I simply asked about DA, without LOL. I'm curious about that game, and there was nothing snarky about that question.

p.s. before you decide to go and spout off about how it was 'you' (as in VD) who proved me wrong rather than 'I', and how I'm just being inconsistent in this very post for referring to myself instead of giving you credit, I would suggest learning some advanced English and a linguistic term known as 'paraphrasing'.

Paraphrasing? Nice backpeddaling, you can compete in one of those "special" Olympics for retarded.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And now to answer the bullshit that started this psychotic episode:

It seems to me that the longer this tirade goes on the longer VD reveals himself, through his posts, as serving nothing more than as a purpose to ignorantly skew details, argue false facts, take things out of context, flame and troll everybody else. To be frank it's getting a little tired.

Was that really called for? Couldn't you simply disagree, state your position like normal people do? Am I asking too much here? Your comment has derailed the whole thread. Why? Because you can?

Think of it as a disclaimer to stop you from whining.

Flamebait.

So?

And once again, Bio is known for several responses leading to the same thing, context or not.

Groundless assumptions based on false facts. Volourn has proven you wrong with a few of his examples. I can name more from BG2:

Answer one question, yes or no, please. Is Bio known for several responses leading to the same thing?

Have you actually played Bio games, Volourn? Had responses affected their games, Bio would have been praised now as a pillar of the hardcore role-playing community.

Why do you lie?

What is the main reason many RPG Codex members including some staff members like Saint and Spazmo dislike Bio games?

That again. Well, we do now. Considering that it's getting harder and harder to find a purebred RPG, we had to broad our horizons. We have agreed that any game where you play a role (like Mario or that marine in Doom) are RPGs, we have also accepted Dr. Greg's definition that any game where you have fun is an RPG. That certainly opened up doors for a lot of games we couldn't cover earlier.

More skewed details, responses taken out of context and an utterlyly imbecillic display of ignorance on your behalf. Greg said he likes to make games that he considers fun, not that he considers all fun games to be RPGs, you fucking jackass. He never actually answered the question, did he?

First of all that was a joke addressed at Volourn who always jokes about us covering Bio games and questioning their RPG qualities. Second, Greg did answer the question, just because you didn't like the answer, doesn't mean there wasn't one. Even an absense of an answer is considered as an answer, but in that particular case it was certianly more then that.

Aha! I knew it. Nobody can say that NWN was good with a straight face unless they didn't play it.

More flame bait. Is this supposed to serve any other purpose?

We were exchanging jokes with Volourn. Before that he claimed that he never played a Bio game before. Did you miss that? How convinient.

Bring it on, biatch!

Fuck off.

Was that addressed to you? Or you just wanted to tell me to fuck off? Or are you some kind of a self-proclaimed moderator who locks thread, edits other staff members news posts, and watches for political correctness? What a pathetic power-hungry jerk you are.

Yeah, like talking to Garth or Mission or even that guy at the starting ship.
You must save Bastilla!
- I don't want to, fuck off
- After I save myself
- Yay! I get to save somebody!

And that represents all of the other choices you make in KOTOR? No, it does not. Compare that to Doc Morbid's dialogue in Fallout:
"Do you want some healing?"
1) I could use some healing.
2) Yes.
3) No, I was just looking around.

I already replied to Volourn on that. Here is a quote:
"Volourn, I look at the game overall. Take ToEE for example, we all say there is no story, although *technically* there is. We say that quests sucks, although technically there are a few that are good. We say that Arcanum was non-linear although technically there were a few places that forced you to do things in sequence. We say that Fallout had multiple solutions, but there were quests that could only be solved one way. Have I made my point yet?"

So, that's what turns you on? You are weird, you know?

Childish and immature. You remind me of a local TV host Jason Lo. Nothing but sex-related remarks come out of his mouth. It's not funny, and people often tell him off for it. You're being the same way, and I'm telling you off for it.

Once again you've conviniently skipped what that was in reply to: "Get on all 4 years, and strip then." You are full of shit, Rex.

Sorry, what? I wasn't listening. Are you on your period right now?

Proving your age again, are you? Listen kid, periods aren't funny

I don't need advices from you, no do I need to prove my age. Only a little kid like you can think that being 34 is kewl. Grow fucking up.

You admit that you took David's words out of context to fit your own bullshit agenda and conveniently left out the details which put his words IN context. You can't get any more contrite than that.

I didn't admit anything. David is a designer. His opinions, even on a specific issues, represent a general design approach that was seen in many Bio games (the RPG ones). That's my opinion and I didn't back away from that.

PS. How's DA going?

There is no shortage of snarky (un)witticisms with you on the clock.

Don't forget "Hey, David" comment. That was so insulting, and David didn't even realize that. What an idiot you are, Rex!

Yep. I knew that you were lazy, biased, unreasonable, typo-magnet, with a taste for cross-dressing (sometimes you are a boy, sometimes you are a girl), but really really weird? As in "fucked up" weird? No. It was a surprise. Smile

Welcome to 5th grade, everyone.

Another joke. Volorn got it, you didn't. Deal with it. I think of Volourn as a friend. I have never been insulted by his comments, and I hope he can say the same. When you were on another power trip talking about banning Volourn, I was the one who objected to that bullshit. Funny thing is you wanted to ban him for disrupting normal discussions, which is what your hypocritical ass is constantly doing now.

Volourn, I look at the game overall. Take ToEE for example, we all say there is no story, although *technically* there is. We say that quests sucks, although technically there are a few that are good. We say that Arcanum was non-linear although technically there were a few places that forced you to do things in sequence. We say that Fallout had multiple solutions, but there were quests that could only be solved one way. Have I made my point yet?

False dichotomies, all of them.

Good argument. You really proved me wrong there.

A few that were good? I don't know what game you were playing but it wasn't TOEE. Name one quest in TOEE that was good and didn't last roughly 2 seconds

What's time got to do with anything? Anyway, some temple factions quests (lower level) were good.

Arcanum was non-linear overall, but what does that have to do with anything?

The fact that the game is considered a non-linear despite some linear sequences.

Fallout, as a whole, had multiple solutions (we're talking about whole games, aren't we?) even though there were many quests that could only be solved in a single manner. The same is with KOTOR: there were many quests that could only be solved in a single manner but as a whole, it featured multiple solutions. I don't see why you'd have to make an exception to that.

Fallout has more multiple solutions quests, while KOTOR has more single solution quests.That affects our perception of these games.

Who's gonna ask your character? They drew straws because nobody was eager to go. You play the role of a character who lost. Your character didn't have that choice, which fits the setting.

It fits the setting? Try harder. If Fallout were truly a game about non-linearity it would, like other truly non-linear games allow you to choose where you started instead of forcing you into the shoes of the guy who comes from Vault 13.

And how does coming from a specific vault not fit the setting? You know, Exitium, people are beginning to suspect that you are really stupid by now. Just so you know.

There is no argument that Fallout is a non-linear game from then on but to claim that Fallout is the most non-linear game ever made or whatever it is you're saying, would be blatantly false.

Whatever it is I was saying? So, you are too stupid to understand what I wrote, is that it? I never claimed that Fallout was the most non-linear game ever made, btw.

Your last point pertaining to the survivability of the Vault Dweller is blatantly untrue. Without weapon skills, your player is left with a handicap in the face of stern combat opposition. There is no talking your way out of a Deathclaw battle.

That's why no diplomatic character has even been able to finish Fallout.

You have thus far managed to earn yourself the dubious distinction of being the RPG Codex's most immature contributor due to your inane 'contributions' in discussions like these.

You are just plain stupid, Rex, but you are really good at that.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I thought there would be more to this... I cancelled going out this Saturday night to watch this, and until now none of you girlies posted manly stuff. I thought there'd be at least "you're a a cock-gobbling retard muthafucka" rethoric, but all I see is "you're fucking stupid".

You're not hardcore

 

[Astromarine]

Roleplayer, you are a cum-snorting crackwhore amoeba. Plus you are a FC Porto fanboy.

I aim to please

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

My day is complete

 

[Gromnir]

you need a driver's license to drive a car, but every yutz with a computer and an internet connection thinks he can flame. you folks should take some responsibility for your actions... strive to rise above your obvious limitations.

...

and for gods sakes, if you is gonna start a little catfight in the middle of a thread, at least TRY to keeps the argument on-topic. is boring when things simply devolve into folks calling each other “moron,” "jerk," or "mother*&#@$%," and it sets a bad example. thinks 'bout how impressionable rosh and llama g is 'fore you post. thinks 'bout the children.

oh well. maybe the thread will get back on track... or maybe not.

HA! Good Fun!

p.s. "I disagree that there was much dialogue in KotOR where player responses all led to the same lines. I know I did very little of that myself, at any rate."

*shrug*

the consequences of the kotor dialogue options was limited. we liked the assassin robot encounter on korriban... you had multiple options o' dealing with the assassin robot on korriban, but those choices not have much impact on game beyond that particular quest, and no impact on main story as a whole. is understandable that you not make individual choices have more impact… would be impossible to makes those choices have more impact when you approach story as you has in past.

bio way ain't the only way.

"I'm not really certain what the hostility is about on the Bioware boards."

hostility not bother Gromnir. we not got a bio account anymore, but we ain't gonna discuss bio boards on this or other boards. end of story.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't want to flame anybody and I wasn't trying to impress anybody. I wrote what I felt. Exitium's behavior is idiotic and the worst thing is that he's part of the staff. He feels that he can post anything and get away with that just because he's part of the staff. He posts stuff that other people get flamed and kick out for. Yet we do nothing about him because he's part of the staff. Had anybody else tried to do what he does, they would have been gone. That's some serious double fucking standards and I don't like that at all.

 

[Seven]

I don't recall too many people being banned from the codex. That being said, Rex's behavior and attitude has been incomprehensible of late (well more so than usual). I just can't see where he's coming from, and why he's made it his personal mission to hound and flame on certain issues.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't mean gone as in banned. Gone as in "all those guys who posted stupid crap and were made very unwelcome by the majority" gone.