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Title

  • OP is a gigantic fag

    Votes: 163 48.5%
  • Nah

    Votes: 14 4.2%
  • Of course, Torment as a series has always been shit, its expected.

    Votes: 35 10.4%
  • Nah, the pissbaby butthurt gigameltdown would cause legions of self ejections

    Votes: 31 9.2%
  • Who cares?

    Votes: 93 27.7%

  • Total voters
    336

Hobo Elf

Arcane
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Feb 17, 2009
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14,056
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Platypus Planet
If it sucks I'll just not back any more KS projects by well known studios. Shadowrun Returns, WL2 and PoE were already disappointing, but I have hopes yet for this game and The Bards Tale 4. Never giving Obsidian anymore KS money though, they can fuck right off.
 

Maculo

Arcane
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Messages
2,548
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I do not think it will suck, but I do not think it will live up to PST. At this point, all I want is a solid game.

KS shows that there is a clear difference between Codexers and inXile/Obsidian developers. I think that InXile and Obsidian want to create games that are experimental and "fresh," whereas Codexers just want what worked (PST, BG2, IWD, etc).

While I enjoyed PoE, I think it was an unhappy marriage of Josh Sawyer wanting to create something new and yet try to appease Infinity engine fans.
 

Turjan

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
5,047
While I enjoyed PoE, I think it was an unhappy marriage of Josh Sawyer wanting to create something new and yet try to appease Infinity engine fans.
That's not what I get from the common criticisms, except the part where RTwP was used instead of turn-based. The main criticism is that it is over-balanced to the point of becoming samey, similar to criticisms leveled against D&D 4E - unlike AD&D2, which had lots of flavor with much less concern to balance.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
97,722
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Nah. The main criticism is TRASH MOBS and everything else basically revolves around that. Nobody really gives a fuck about the balance, give them a bunch of tightly designed encounters and they'll forget that shit pretty quickly

KS shows that there is a clear difference between Codexers and inXile/Obsidian developers. I think that InXile and Obsidian want to create games that are experimental and "fresh," whereas Codexers just want what worked (PST, BG2, IWD, etc).

Eh, not really.

inXile and Obsidian's problem is that they had 2.5 years to remember how to make oldschool RPGs again when even back in the day these games took 3+ years to make. It's that simple.

The result was...basically good, complete games that checked all the boxes but were structured weirdly and differently from what the most hardcore fans remembered, setting off some people's uncanny valley alarms when comparing them to the old games.
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Don't get me wrong, I thought PoE was solid, but I got the impression that Obsidian and inXile wanted to experiment with new systems, which created some divisions.
 

pippin

Guest
WL2 is better than PoE in my opinion.
WL2 is turn based, at least. The exploration is more rewarding and stats make more sense, as in I can understand what's going on when I level up this or that skill. I agree with Infinitron: PoE's main flaw is the trash mob combat. Everything else seems to be fine but I gotta say I'm kinda bored with it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
When I talk about how a game is "structured differently", what I mean is that the proportion of its various elements is different from what some people expected.

For example, take Wasteland 2. The game's opening areas are let's say, 30% less "talky" than what some people were expecting from a Fallout-like game. They have 20% more combat than what they expected, and 30% more containers to unlock than what they expected. All the classic elements are there, but to some people - the most nostalgic people, those most hardcore fans of the old games - the proportions feel "wrong". And to some of them, that's a deal-breaker, a game ruiner.

If that sounds petty and petulant to you, then yeah, it kind of is. Most people aren't that fixated on how the old games felt. They just want to have similar mechanics and overall feels. But them's the digs.
 
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Mustawd

Guest
If that sounds petty and petulant to you, then yeah, it kind of is. Most people aren't that fixated on how the old games felt. They just want to have similar mechanics and overall feels. But them's the digs.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
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1,866,227
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Third World
When I talk about how a game is "structured differently", what I mean is that the proportion of its different elements is different from what some people expected.

For example, take Wasteland 2. The game's opening areas are let's say, 30% less "talky" than what some people were expecting from a Fallout-like game. They have 20% more combat than what they expected, and 30% more containers to unlock than what they expected. All the classic elements are there, but to some people - the most nostalgic people, those most hardcore fans of the old games - the proportions feel "wrong". And to some of them, that's a deal-breaker, a game ruiner.

If that sounds petty and petulant to you, then yeah, it kind of is. Most people aren't that fixated on how the old games felt. They just want to have similar mechanics and overall feels. But them's the digs.
I always thought it was about how tiny and straightforward the maps were. Thanks for educating us on our own thoughts again :salute:
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
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KS shows that there is a clear difference between Codexers and inXile/Obsidian developers. I think that InXile and Obsidian want to create games that are experimental and "fresh," whereas Codexers just want what worked (PST, BG2, IWD, etc).
They aren't really experimental. They just have issues.

Wasteland 2 has tons of filler content and bullshit character system(base stats not linked to skills... my CS machinegun-wielding brute with 2 int says hello), bad weapon balance(there's a mod for it, thankfully) and the rest of it was nice. Combat system was probably the lowest of those "nice" parts.

Pillars have again bullshit character system, bad encounter design and the worst of them all - terrible pacing in 3rd act. I couldn't make through it because of this fucking part.
 

pippin

Guest
There's nothing experimental or fresh about WL2 and especially PoE, in fact, PST is the only "experimental and fresh" game from the IE that still has its status, and that's why people are interested on it.
 

Maculo

Arcane
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Messages
2,548
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
They aren't really experimental. They just have issues.

Wasteland 2 has tons of filler content and bullshit character system(base stats not linked to skills... my CS machinegun-wielding brute with 2 int says hello), bad weapon balance(there's a mod for it, thankfully) and the rest of it was nice. Combat system was probably the lowest of those "nice" parts.

Pillars have again bullshit character system, bad encounter design and the worst of them all - terrible pacing in 3rd act. I couldn't make through it because of this fucking part.
I used "experimental" liberally there and a better word probably would be "departure." From the PoE kickstarter updates, it felt like Josh wanted to depart from aspects of the infinity engine games. That departure is what caused several of the issues or disagreements in my opinion. Then again, I cannot say my memory of the kickstarters are perfect.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
The Codex reaction will be negative regardless of the game's quality, like it was for Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun: Hong Kong.

RPGs with a narrative focus don't tend to do well here any more. Divinity: Original Sin got a much better reception here.
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
The Codex reaction will be negative regardless of the game's quality, like it was for Pillars of Eternity and Shadowrun: Hong Kong.

RPGs with a narrative focus don't tend to do well here any more. Divinity: Original Sin got a much better reception here.
:hmmm:
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest

I was surprised by the reaction to PoE's story. I thought it was decent, despite not having properly used the talents of Chris Avellone, George Ziets and Travis Stout. Eric Fenstermaker is a good writer.

As for Shadowrun: Hong Kong, I thought it had the best writing of any of the Shadowrun games - especially the lore around the Walled City and the Yama Kings, and companions like Racter and the samurai.
 

Gremius

Augur
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
104
especially the lore around the Walled City and the Yama Kings
You mean the neverending walls of boring expositions repeated over and over?
 

Lord Andre

Arcane
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
3,716
Location
Gypsystan
I was surprised by the reaction to PoE's story. I thought it was decent, despite not having properly used the talents of Chris Avellone, George Ziets and Travis Stout. Eric Fenstermaker is a good writer.

As for Shadowrun: Hong Kong, I thought it had the best writing of any of the Shadowrun games - especially the lore around the Walled City and the Yama Kings, and companions like Racter and the samurai.

Both PoE and SR:HK suffered from horrible pacing and had a desperate need of an editor. Also very anticlimatic ending on both. The premise was fine on either one but the execution lacked.

They weren't received badly on Codex 'cause Codex don't like reading, they were received badly 'cause quantity <> quality.
 

upwardlymobile

forum posting consultant
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