Demise: Ascension - is anyone else here playing it?

[covr]

Belthazor do you know how to run Revenge fulscreen with 3D acceleration? It does not work on any modern system I have.
Also, have you tried decklin's beta reboots of Mordor 1 and Mordor 2?

 

[SpoonFULL]

Has anyone tried buying Ascension from Declandomain or e-junkie - are they legitimate or a scam?

Also as anyone tried Ascension (or the older Rise of Ku'tan) on Windows 10 and 11?

It is not cheap to get the game and I don't want to be scammed. Also the demo available is quite old so I am not sure its representitive (and it did not work for me).

 

[covr]

These are legit sites. You should try with Revenge, it's basically ascension with extra levels and minor new features. It works under win 10 and 11 but in software mode

 

[covr]

Demo is representative of the full game

 

[Belthazor]

Belthazor do you know how to run Revenge fulscreen with 3D acceleration? It does not work on any modern system I have.

Hi Covr,

I still use an (native) older Operation System (Windows 7) for running Ascension and Revenge.
Fullscreen mode and windowed mode work perfectly in that setup.
Perhaps you can try Oracle Virtualbox with an older OS?
See: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

I did some testing for you:
1. Oracle VirtualBox and virtual OS WinXP running Demise: Ascension with SGI OpenGL Software Renderer = fullscreen works fine, but doesn't look as good as it could.
And you can use Display -> Scaled Mode from the Virtual Box menu.

2. Oracle VirtualBox and virtual OS WinXP running Demise: Ascension with OpenGL ICD = don't work on my setup.
I get: Can't create context. The pixel format is invalid.

3. Oracle VirtualBox and virtual OS Windows7 with 2D and 3D video acceleration activated (Virtual Machine settings, Monitor) running Revenge with SGI OpenGL Software Renderer = ok (same as 1)

4. Oracle VirtualBox and virtual OS Windows 7 with 2D and 3D video acceleration activated running Revenge with OpenGL ICD = don't work.
The pixel format is invalid (same as 2).


Unless other players have better suggestions, that leaves you with a number of options:
1. Play the game native on your OS (Windows 11?) in windowed mode.
2. Buy and install Windows 7 and play the game native in fullscreen-mode
3. Use Virtual Box with WinXP with software rendering in full-screen mode.
4. Use Virtual Box with Windows 7 with software rendering in full-screen mode.

Also, have you tried decklin's beta reboots of Mordor 1 and Mordor 2?

No I haven't. I'm still playing Revenge.
Also in Ascension and Revenge there is a tribute to Mordor2 0.92b. That part of the dungeon is made in the old-style.

 

[Belthazor]

Has anyone tried buying Ascension from Declandomain or e-junkie - are they legitimate or a scam?

Also has anyone tried Ascension (or the older Rise of Ku'tan) on Windows 10 and 11?

It is not cheap to get the game and I don't want to be scammed. Also the demo available is quite old so I am not sure its representitive (and it did not work for me).

Yeah, like Covr said, these sites are legitimate.
For an overview of demo's and where to buy the full game see: https://www.city-of-marlith.com/general/buy-or-download.html
You can try out the demo for quite some time: I think you can try it for 30 playthroughs or 21 days and it has the first 7 dungeon levels or so.

For an overview of changes made in Revenge, see: https://www.city-of-marlith.com/revenge/changes/index.html

 

[Belthazor]

Penalties from switching to a new guild and learning new abilities
Do you like the XP penalties in the game?

My saris Thief named "Sneaky" is a level 357 Thief.
Total XP = 24,050,139. No other guilds yet. He has 761 hitpoints, so no complaints about not taking the maximum hitpoint route.
He needs 135,199 XP and 88,538 gold for the next level. So approximately 270K XP and 180K gold for a pin run.
He has no guild penalties whatsoever.

I decided to take 5 Cleric levels, because I can use the healing and I've got the missing treatises for the first spells, and therefore can take notes of spell progression.
The first spells Cleric learns are:

Only 3 treatises needed for the first 10 spells. See: Cleric Spells

The Cleric guild has a penalty of 1.5 from all the Thief levels. <Shrugs> ok I can live with that.
But now I return to the Thief Guild because I need more time to find the other Cleric missing spellbooks.
Just from joining the Cleric guild, the Thief guild received a 0.01 penalty.
After gaining the first 5 levels, the penalty remains at 0.01.
Marginal, you might think, just a 1% penalty, but......

The penalty doesn't just apply to making new levels, the penalty applies back to Thief level 1.
The game calculates how much total XP you need with a 0.01 penalty and subtracts the XP already made to present you with the XP you need to make for the next level.
One big pile of XP to burn off.
Why? I didn't have any Cleric skills for 357 levels, so why take the penalty back to Thief level 1?

I could live with a penalty of 0.01 applied to the 135,199 XP I previously needed to make. That would come down to 136,551 XP.
But instead the game punishes me with 377,052 XP just for the next level.
Imagine I wouldn't come back so soon to the Thief guild but instead had built up a penalty of 0.25.
Then I would need to make approximately 6,147,733 XP. And in one level to be able to progress. All the penalty in one big pile.
Why? That discourages people to come back to a previous guild.

My two cents...
Penalties are fine, but not retroactive.
Apply the penalty to the Cleric levels. Ok.
Apply the penalty to the new Thief levels (358 and beyond). Ok.
But NOT to Thief levels 1 - 357!

 

[Eisen]

Is there any game similar?
You know, less clunky that doesn't take 10 minutes to load.

 

[Belthazor]

Loading times
Yes, Revenge (volume III) takes a long time to load (31 seconds on my system).
But once the game is loaded and you're inside the dungeon it's all instantaneous.
For instance talking stairs up or down to enter another level.

Ascension (volume II) takes 22 seconds to load.
Ku'tan (volume I) takes 4 seconds to load and that's on a Virtual Machine.
Infinite Worlds takes 2 seconds to load (demo with 5 levels).
Mordor II (0.98b) takes 1 second to load (on a VM!).


Ku'tan?
So If you want almost no loading times and a 3D dungeon, you could go with Demise: Rise of the Ku'tan.
But having said that you're missing so much, in comparison to Revenge.
The melee speed in Revenge is the fastest.
Gathering XP and leveling up in Revenge is the fastest.
You can recover drained hitpoints from undead attacks in Revenge (not in Ascension or Ku'tan).
In Ku'tan if gold was stolen from the party but you'd manage to kill the monsters before they could flee, you could retrieve the gold.
No so for items. Ascension introducted this.
You only have 40 items slots (not 60).
Spellcaster slot #1 bug
And more...


D1 - Reboot
There's also the D1 reboot (build 26) that Decklin just released 2 days ago. See this topic on his forums.
Perhaps that incorporates changes made to Revenge back to Ku'tan? Not sure.


2D
If you want a 2D dungeon with 2D graphics, I would go with Mordor II - Darkness Awakening 0.98b.
It has 2D monsters and item graphics and great music and there's also the patch made by the community that gives you 15 levels to explore.
But be warned this version is much harder (and unforgiving) than the other games.

 

[covr]

Is there any game similar?
You know, less clunky that doesn't take 10 minutes to load.

There's Dragon Ruins 2, released recently, but it's much less complex vs Demise.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Is this an Ascension feature? Saying a cute bye-bye when a monster gets away?

 

[Dorateen]

Yes, just like peaceful monsters will say "I wish to join", when the player enters a room. The sound effects, including monster noises, were one of the things I enjoyed about this game.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

This game is a harsh mistress. I opened a Flesh To Stone chest with only 70% chance. Now my solo Level30 Ninja is stoned. Best strategy to rescue him?
Wait for rescue - aging problem.
Another character initiate rescue from the morgue - cost money problem.
Any other option? I do not want build rescue members/party.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

I am a single Level40 Ninja, and need return a Disciple. Charm Humanoid scrolls does not work. Should I try Dalyn's smile item (Dominate Soul)? Or any suggestions please?
*EDIT Never mind, Daly's smile has worked.* But now I have to bring a Silver Cross. The guild master is cruel. :-(

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

I. Evil Human Ninja/Sorcerer/Magi

Ninja 1->80
Sor 1->40
Mag 1->40
Ninja 80->150
Sor 40->75
Mag 40->75
Nin 150->250
...
...

I am a Level41 Good Ninja and pinned, and I do not know when I will find a Silver Cross.
1. Should I change to Sorceror (Level1) and level up him while seeking this Cross?
2. or waste the XP and level up my ninja to Level 80 first as suggested?
3. forfeit the random quest for the Silver Cross

 

[Dorateen]

Have you used the oracle in town to try and detect where the cross might be found? If I recall, this method was hit or miss, but I also read once that it will cause the item you are looking for to appear on one of the levels.

 

[Eisen]

Is Rise of Kul'tan reboot made on the same codebase/engine?

 

[Belthazor]

Is this an Ascension feature? Saying a cute bye-bye when a monster gets away?

Infinite Worlds already had this (the predecessor to Ku'tan).

 

[Belthazor]

Yes, just like peaceful monsters will say "I wish to join", when the player enters a room. The sound effects, including monster noises, were one of the things I enjoyed about this game.

I created a page for you with some of the sound files from Infinite Worlds.
It seems the sound design at this time of development was rather extensive.
For instance there are light, medium and heavy sounds available for spellclasses.
* Charm Light
* Charm Medium
* Charm Heavy
* Cold Light
* Cold Medium
* Cold Heavy
* Morkal Alchemy Light
* Morkal Alchemy Medium
* Morkal Alchemy Heavy
etcetera

The sound files were .wav files and the music were .midi files.

 

[Belthazor]

This game is a harsh mistress. I opened a Flesh To Stone chest with only 70% chance. Now my solo Level30 Ninja is stoned. Best strategy to rescue him?
Wait for rescue - aging problem.
Another character initiate rescue from the morgue - cost money problem.
Any other option? I do not want build rescue members/party.

Yeah these are your options in game.
When you have a recent backup, you could restore that.

I am a single Level40 Ninja, and need return a Disciple. Charm Humanoid scrolls does not work. Should I try Dalyn's smile item (Dominate Soul)? Or any suggestions please?
*EDIT Never mind, Daly's smile has worked.* But now I have to bring a Silver Cross. The guild master is cruel. :-(

I guess you're playing Demise: The Revelation? I have not played that game.
In Ascension my last found Silver Cross was from a Yakius on level 4.
In Revenge my last found Silver Cross was from a Soldier on level 7.

I am a Level41 Good Ninja and pinned, and I do not know when I will find a Silver Cross.
1. Should I change to Sorceror (Level1) and level up him while seeking this Cross?
2. or waste the XP and level up my ninja to Level 80 first as suggested?
3. forfeit the random quest for the Silver Cross

If I were you I would not forfait as I hate to give up and loose levels.
I guess I would change to another guild and keep on searching for the Cross without loosing XP.

Have you used the oracle in town to try and detect where the cross might be found? If I recall, this method was hit or miss, but I also read once that it will cause the item you are looking for to appear on one of the levels.

Yes, that's a good suggestion. The Oracle/Seer can spawn items. Wait until he is sure and gives you a location.
When you're at the specified location, do an search circlewise, it's mostly in the next room or so.

Is Rise of Kul'tan reboot made on the same codebase/engine?

I think it's the dungeon from Ku'tan with bug fixes from Revenge.
Caster slot 1 bug fix
40 inventory slots -> 60 slots
Ability to retrieve stolen items
Ability to regain drained hitpoints a few at a time when entering the dungeon from the city.
expanded combat messages
expanded map
weapon rebalancing (from Ascension)
races and guild changes (from Ascension)
etcetera
etcetera

 

[Belthazor]

I. Evil Human Ninja/Sorcerer/Magi

Ninja 1->80
Sor 1->40
Mag 1->40
Ninja 80->150
Sor 40->75
Mag 40->75
Nin 150->250
...
...

I am a Level41 Good Ninja and pinned, and I do not know when I will find a Silver Cross.
1. Should I change to Sorceror (Level1) and level up him while seeking this Cross?
2. or waste the XP and level up my ninja to Level 80 first as suggested?
3. forfeit the random quest for the Silver Cross

About the leveling, the best advice I can give you is to do whatever feels most fun for you.

I don't get why at some point in time they felt the game needed XP penalties.
Leveling one guild to 1499 takes an insane amount of time, let alone 2, 3, 4, 5 guilds.
And that's without penalties.
So what If you are a level 300 Warrior and you can make 100 Cleric levels really fast. Haven't you earned that? And paid for it with the XP requirements for Warrior and Cleric.
Character building and choosing different guilds/abilities is what makes this game fun. Why punish/limit that?

Penalties mostly come from:
* Guild Attack/Defense
* Multiple Swings
* Abilities: Thieving, Backstab, Critical Hit, Fighting, Language and Perception

1. You can either ignore penalties altogether and choose guilds as you please.
Allowing for flexible character development.

2. Or you can be very conservative about it.
Form a party with single-guilded characters (nevermind the +Artisan 1 because the game won't allow you to join all guilds from creation).
This is a somewhat rigid approach, but you never have to worry about penalties.
* Giant Warrior
* Saris Thief
* Spellcaster for resistances (either Sorcerer or Warlock)
* Cleric

3. Or you can be very smart about them, but that's not much fun.
Leveling a caster guild to 509 and then drop it forever is smart, because casters require the most XP and give the least penalty to the other guilds.
Because you will never return to the guild, it doesn't matter if enormous amounts of idle XP are built up.
And then you start to develop your fighter guild: Warrior, Ninja or Paladin.
But leveling a caster to 509 takes forever and somewhere along the way you probably get bored and stop playing the game.

4. You could also do "guild hopping", like suggested:
A little bit of Ninja (Ninja to 80)
Then a little bit of Sorcerer (Sorcerer to 40)
Then some Magi (Magi to 40)
Then some more of Ninja (Ninja to 150)
etcetera - (choose the amount of levels per "hop" you're comfortable with).
This keeps things fresh and you can use NCR equipment (daggers, rings, amulets) from your highest level.
Once in a while (every 15 levels or so) you return to a previous guild and burn some idle XP off (from the increased xp penalty factor) keeping XP costs managable.



One way or another you'll pay for the penalties (unless you take option 2).
If you do Ninja to 60 or so first, giving you 2 extra swings this will result in a substantial penalty.
But while developing your Sorcerer you'll profit from these 2 extra swings.
If you do Ninja to 28 (1st extra swing) and then Sorcerer you'll have less of a penalty but it also takes longer meleeing monsters.
If you first do Sorcerer to 100 and then Ninja to 28 you'll have no penalty while being a Sorcerer but you also haven't got any extra swings or fighting or good A/D from Ninja for that matter.
In the end whatever works for you and is fun is the way to go.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

I wonder how many potential customers the developer lost because of the completely unnecessary pinning system?

 

[Belthazor]

I wonder how many potential customers the developer lost because of the completely unnecessary pinning system?

This also has been addressed in Demise: Revenge of the Tavern Keeper.
When you're ready for the Tavern Keeper Adventures, after Lord Gherrick's Missions and Ascension Quests, at some point (I think from Adventure 6?) completing the Adventure increases your system pin with 1.
Meaning all your characters (including newly created ones) can gain another level of experience before they are pinned (3 levels).
Completing the 7th adventure gives you another pin+1.
Upto pin+5. Meaning your characters can gain experience in dungeon for 7 levels before returning to town.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Mordor: Depth of Dejenol has the same pinning rules.

 

[TheDeveloperDude]

Do you have to start as a nomad class always in Mordor 1?

WTF?