Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

[Brother None]

We better see at least a couple more Onyx games. It sounds and looks awesome. What does "stops engine development" mean anyway? No more new engines?

You have to constantly upgrade engines for new tech and platforms. "Stops engine development" most likely means Onyx won't be updated for the next generation of consoles, which in turn would make South Park the final game on it. When Unity makes more sense to use even for a self-developed game, this seemed more a matter of when than if. Sounds like a sensible decision to me, even though it must have been a really painful one to make.

To me it's a bigger surprise to hear they'll focus on smaller projects. As a byline it makes sense, but I thought they'd retain their focus on big publisher-financed projects.

 

[Cosmo]

Will they focus on smaller stuff, or shorten at all costs developping time by focusing on their home-made RPG tools ?
Beside, what means "small" ? P:E is arguably small, not in scope, but in budget, relatively to the industry...

 

[Infinitron]

I thought they'd retain their focus on big publisher-financed projects.

"Parts of games"?

 

[Roguey]

I thought they'd retain their focus on big publisher-financed projects.

"Parts of games"?

Plus same-engine slamdrunk sequels. Just no more attempts like Seven Dwarves, Alpha Protocol, Aliens, or North Carolina.

 

[Infinitron]

I thought they'd retain their focus on big publisher-financed projects.

"Parts of games"?

Plus same-engine slamdrunk sequels. Just no more attempts like Seven Dwarves, Alpha Protocol, Aliens, or North Carolina.

Is "slamdrunk" a typo or a joke?

 

[Roguey]

Typo.

 

[serch]

Now it's a codexian meme. I find it hilarious in Feargus' generally unsuccesful tries of making a quick profit context.

 

[Cosmo]

A short time ago, Obsidian thought that had no choice but to imitate the frog that tried to make itself as big as the ox.
Now that they admitted they can't, they just opted for guerilla warfare, which is a progress.

 

[Brother None]

Now it's a codexian meme. I find it hilarious in Feargus' generally unsuccesful tries of making a quick profit context.

It is funny, but as far as I know his slam dunk sequels have generally been success stories (depending on your perspective, I suppose), there's a reason his company keeps getting asked to do them.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis

Something that's been bugging me: Did Feargus ever have a Scottish accent?

Not that I have ever heard, but he knows a lot about Scotland.

 

[Duraframe300]

To me it's a bigger surprise to hear they'll focus on smaller projects. As a byline it makes sense, but I thought they'd retain their focus on big publisher-financed projects.

It's not like they could have kept up either way. As Feargus said, budget and team size is insane. I found his Movie=Big Game comparison actually pretty apt. A ~100 - 150 people studio who works on multiple projects at once isn't exactly going to cut it anymore.

 

[Anthony Davis]

While I haven't had a chance to work with yet, everything I have red and heard about Unity makes it the goto choice for indie game studios.

Powerful
Affordable.
Well supported.
Cross platform.

It just makes sense.

Now just because Obsidian doesn't use Onyx right now doesn't mean they don't get any use out of. That work. They still use the tools, or quite a few of them as I understand it, plus now programmer can work on extending tech and adding features and gameplay.

 

[serch]

Now it's a codexian meme. I find it hilarious in Feargus' generally unsuccesful tries of making a quick profit context.

It is funny, but as far as I know his slam dunk sequels have generally been success stories (depending on your perspective, I suppose), there's a reason his company keeps getting asked to do them.

Yeah, but take as an example FNV: good game taking into account the engine, a lot of sells, great profits ... that end all in Bethesda's pockets due to some Metacritics popamole clausule. It's like a drunken ubernegro smashing with the fury of an angry god his own basket: great perfomance, bad results, a slamdrunk.

 

[Infinitron]

Now it's a codexian meme. I find it hilarious in Feargus' generally unsuccesful tries of making a quick profit context.

It is funny, but as far as I know his slam dunk sequels have generally been success stories (depending on your perspective, I suppose), there's a reason his company keeps getting asked to do them.

Yeah, but take as an example FNV: good game taking into account the engine, a lot of sells, great profits ... that end all in Bethesda's pockets due to some Metacritics popamole clausule. It's like a drunken ubernegro smashing with the fury of an angry god his own basket: great perfomance, bad results.

It's still a quick profit, just not for Obsidian. But it means they can get work.

 

[Brother None]

Now it's a codexian meme. I find it hilarious in Feargus' generally unsuccesful tries of making a quick profit context.

It is funny, but as far as I know his slam dunk sequels have generally been success stories (depending on your perspective, I suppose), there's a reason his company keeps getting asked to do them.

Yeah, but take as an example FNV: good game taking into account the engine, a lot of sells, great profits ... that end all in Bethesda's pockets due to some Metacritics popamole clausule. It's like a drunken ubernegro smashing with the fury of an angry god his own basket: great perfomance, bad results, a slam drunk.

What you're saying there is true for any publisher-backed project of a developer of Obsidian's size, it doesn't really apply specifically to slam dunk sequels (MetaCritic clauses are as common as they are fucking retarded). Since back in the Interplay days Feargus & co have delivered on really modest budgets and timeframes for these "slam dunk-style" sequels, and I believe he has a pretty good reputation for them built up by now, which is part of what's kept Obsidian in business. I don't know if Bethesda would've gone for New Vegas without Fallout 2 to KotOR II. I can't speak as to Obsidian's internal thoughts on this but I'd think they'd consider such projects successes even if the contracts are not, but crummy contracts are par for the course.

 

[Cosmo]

I believe he has a pretty good reputation for them built up by now, which is part of what's kept Obsidian in business.

Do you think this reputation will gain them some amount of leverage in the end ?

 

[Volrath]

So how much money did they piss down the toilet by developing Onyx?

 

[Brother None]

I believe he has a pretty good reputation for them built up by now, which is part of what's kept Obsidian in business.

Do you think this reputation will gain them some amount of leverage in the end ?

I don't know if a development house like Obsidian ever has any amount of leverage over publishers. Maybe if they own the IP of the game they're working on, or something similarly unusual. Reputation alone can get you jobs but it doesn't get you much leverage, I would think. But yeah, I've never sat in on a publisher contract negotiation so I don't really know.

 

[Semper]

So how much money did they piss down the toilet by developing Onyx?

if they were clever back then they used the budget from sega to develop their engine. afaik onyx was specifically created for aliens: crucible, and someone mentioned in an interview that though aliens was aborted it still pulled off onyx. perhaps anthony could shed some light on this.

 

[Tigranes]

In the current industry model the best that a developer like Obsidian can hope for is to (1) keep getting work that is roughly in the right scope to produce good RPGs - Star Wars, D&D, RTwP, etc. all fit that bill, even if it's not ideal; (2) get the occasional chance to create an original IP game; (3) stay alive, which in itself is an incredibly hard thing to do. The only way Obsidian can 'rise above' that cycle is (1) become a Blizzard by, say, selling a few million copies of Project Eternity; (2) be bought out by EA or something.

So the very fact that Obsidian up to now has been able to create CRPGs that show off their strengths in writing without going under is a job well done, and Feargus' reputation for 'slam dunks' clearly has a significant part to do with that success. If AP became a franchise and Aliens unveiled Onyx in full flight it really would have been nice, and arguably South Park + Russian MMO is as low as they've gotten, but I wouldn't mind an Obsidian that keeps going the way they have done, plus a side strand of Kickstarted P:E.

 

[Duraframe300]

arguably South Park + Russian MMO is as low as they've gotten

That's very arguable. Dungeon Siege III is as low as they've gotten (as much as I've enjoyed it) as that was really just contract work to survive after the BGIII cancellation and wasn't done because people were overly excited about making a Dungeon Siege title. In South Park's (especially) and the MMO's case we at least know that Obs has/had lots of fans.

 

[Gurkog]

I just hope that the South Park game is awesome so that their following grows... Perhaps they could get more contracts for turn-based games then, too.

 

[Rake]

So how much money did they piss down the toilet by developing Onyx?

Nothing. Dungeon Siege 3 budjet paid for that.(at a cost of the game content, but it's not like a better game would have made Obsidian more money).And they made 2 games with that engine. But game engines are not static.At this point they would need to poor more money to upgrate Onyx for next-gen systems.The same thing Bethesda does with their shity engine for ten years now. That requires money.Why spend that money if you have cheaper alternatives?

 

[Raapys]

Don't think I've actually tried the Unity engine yet. Would really suck if it turns out to have some annoying integrated quirks, given how many games will be using it now.

 

[DwarvenFood]

This thread, man, I'm on page seven, it's great stuff, please pin this down.