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Diablo 2: Resurrected remaster

Necroscope

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
1,985
Location
Polska
Codex 2014
What I learned from this topic: if you don’t like playing as middle-aged men with female bodies it means you’re a weabo or a coomer.

Remember kids, this question may appear on your exam.
New Avatar material?

1614025558382.png
Possibly because this is how "women" on the Codex tend to look like.
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,610
Location
Denmark
Would someone here explain what people's complaints with LoD are? I remember thinging Act 5 was pretty great, and liking nearly everything LoD brought to the table. Did the Nephalim bullshit begin with LoD? I don't remember that getting going until D3. It's been a very long time since I played.

- rare are the best equipment in original. So you always check rares. LOD changed that and uniques and runewords are the best items which means everyone runs in the same gear
- synergies were introduced in LOD which pidgeonholes you multiple specific skills. In original you could make fire sorc and blizz sorc without any issues at the same time. In lod you have to pick one because you leave a lot of damage on table otherwise. So more builds by more skill combinations.
- new gear introduced shitload of very powerful stats that made stat system and a lot of gear less important. Why would you need mana items when you can just wear one piece of gear that makes you not only do 500% more damage but also regenerate mana quickly ? This also made a lot of other gear useless which previously at least had some use.

LOD and Original are two very different experiences. Original is better loot game as you always feel rewarded by rares and it is more flexible in how you build you character. When rare drops you always check it and you get that adrenaline rush. In LOD you play due to synergies build developers intended you to make and you only care about uniques/setitems but has more content and more actual weird builds which are fun to make + 2 new classes. So you do those ball runs to no end because again, uniques are everything in LOD so you keep killing bhall which gets boring pretty quick.

Either way D2 with proper graphics rework like here will easily be one of the best ARPGs on market even without changing much gameplay. There is a reason why game is 20 years old and there are shitload of people still playing it.

- best campaign of all ARPG where you never feel overpowered unlike something like GD or POE which due to mechanics of game by level 10 you are already in snooze mode as game becomes walk in park until you reach like very end of end game.
- best looting in any arpg. Itemization in D2 and main stat system is still better than GD POE. Even some magic items feel powerful as you can only get stat best rolls on magic items not on rares or uniques.
- Loot drops enough to be fun but not too much so it is tiring like in POE or GD. Getting uniques/set items is actual reward as they are very rare drops compared to GD or POE currently. POE had the same kind of system back in 1.0 not it shits all over uniques.
- stat system is great. You have unified armor so what your sorc waers as armor is limited by strenght, how much mana you have is limited by your mana stat points and so on.
- weapon type galore. Polearms, picks, spears, javelins, swords, crossbows, bows, maces and so on. Both GD and POE are put to shame by this old grandpa.
- best melee gameplay in arpg. Both GD and POE go into "melee is actually just spells with STR scalling". GD is better on that front but both are shit compared to D2.
- You can actually fucking see something when you play game in the end game.

And there are minuses:
- end game is poor, you mostly reroll and start new char
- stamina system is retarded
- potion system is jank now
- much less weird builds than GD POE

"You don't like men in dresses > you are tranny" Is that what you learned in your gender studies class today, Perkel? But there is one thing you forgot - i hate niggers too. And that makes me BLACK TRANNY! So my life matters and yours not. Shut up and listen, bitch.

You don't need anything to smell shitty weeb. You just have to be normal.

Excellent summation, friend.

IF Blizz are smart, they will ignore most of the purists who are part of the #NOCHANGES nutjobs, and actually fix the glaring balance and bug problems with patch 1.14d. I mean the best part of playing Diablo 2 right now, are the mods, which feature numerous good balance and qol changes.
WE all played the same game for 20 years, it's time to move forward abit.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,732
Pathfinder: Wrath
What is the point of using similar skill ?
What's the point of having similar skills? I'd say the talent trees don't use their real estate to their full potential. You get lower tier skills to level and because you have to in order to get to the better/higher tier skills. This + the fact skills are very samey limits the potential builds. That's one of the reasons I like TQ and GD way more than Diablo. Hack and slashers are very mindless in terms of gameplay, so they should at least offer good itemization and potential to play with builds and create a character concept you want.

Excellent summation, friend.

IF Blizz are smart, they will ignore most of the purists who are part of the #NOCHANGES nutjobs, and actually fix the glaring balance and bug problems with patch 1.14d. I mean the best part of playing Diablo 2 right now, are the mods, which feature numerous good balance and qol changes.
WE all played the same game for 20 years, it's time to move forward abit.
Diablo's problems are very foundational. The best band-aid they can apply is to buff mobs and remove runewords, but that's not going to fix the massive lack of endgame problem, the samey skills, the lack of build options, the bizarre structure of the campaign, etc. They aren't going to remove runewords, however, because people love their Enigmas and it makes them feel skillful/good at the game or whatever.
 
Last edited:

Testownia

Guest
Would someone here explain what people's complaints with LoD are? I remember thinging Act 5 was pretty great, and liking nearly everything LoD brought to the table. Did the Nephalim bullshit begin with LoD? I don't remember that getting going until D3. It's been a very long time since I played.

- rare are the best equipment in original. So you always check rares. LOD changed that and uniques and runewords are the best items which means everyone runs in the same gear
- synergies were introduced in LOD which pidgeonholes you multiple specific skills. In original you could make fire sorc and blizz sorc without any issues at the same time. In lod you have to pick one because you leave a lot of damage on table otherwise. So more builds by more skill combinations.
- new gear introduced shitload of very powerful stats that made stat system and a lot of gear less important. Why would you need mana items when you can just wear one piece of gear that makes you not only do 500% more damage but also regenerate mana quickly ? This also made a lot of other gear useless which previously at least had some use.

LOD and Original are two very different experiences. Original is better loot game as you always feel rewarded by rares and it is more flexible in how you build you character. When rare drops you always check it and you get that adrenaline rush. In LOD you play due to synergies build developers intended you to make and you only care about uniques/setitems but has more content and more actual weird builds which are fun to make + 2 new classes. So you do those ball runs to no end because again, uniques are everything in LOD so you keep killing bhall which gets boring pretty quick.

Either way D2 with proper graphics rework like here will easily be one of the best ARPGs on market even without changing much gameplay. There is a reason why game is 20 years old and there are shitload of people still playing it.

- best campaign of all ARPG where you never feel overpowered unlike something like GD or POE which due to mechanics of game by level 10 you are already in snooze mode as game becomes walk in park until you reach like very end of end game.
- best looting in any arpg. Itemization in D2 and main stat system is still better than GD POE. Even some magic items feel powerful as you can only get stat best rolls on magic items not on rares or uniques.
- Loot drops enough to be fun but not too much so it is tiring like in POE or GD. Getting uniques/set items is actual reward as they are very rare drops compared to GD or POE currently. POE had the same kind of system back in 1.0 not it shits all over uniques.
- stat system is great. You have unified armor so what your sorc waers as armor is limited by strenght, how much mana you have is limited by your mana stat points and so on.
- weapon type galore. Polearms, picks, spears, javelins, swords, crossbows, bows, maces and so on. Both GD and POE are put to shame by this old grandpa.
- best melee gameplay in arpg. Both GD and POE go into "melee is actually just spells with STR scalling". GD is better on that front but both are shit compared to D2.
- You can actually fucking see something when you play game in the end game.

And there are minuses:
- end game is poor, you mostly reroll and start new char
- stamina system is retarded
- potion system is jank now
- much less weird builds than GD POE

"You don't like men in dresses > you are tranny" Is that what you learned in your gender studies class today, Perkel? But there is one thing you forgot - i hate niggers too. And that makes me BLACK TRANNY! So my life matters and yours not. Shut up and listen, bitch.

You don't need anything to smell shitty weeb. You just have to be normal.

Excellent summation, friend.

IF Blizz are smart, they will ignore most of the purists who are part of the #NOCHANGES nutjobs, and actually fix the glaring balance and bug problems with patch 1.14d. I mean the best part of playing Diablo 2 right now, are the mods, which feature numerous good balance and qol changes.
WE all played the same game for 20 years, it's time to move forward abit.

Blizzard has already begun to do so with WoW Classic... finally. Things like spell batches SHOULD HAVE been fixed a long time ago, since those were designed around much, much slower Internet speeds. Instead they listened to the frothing #nochanges crowd.
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
10,286
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?
 

Testownia

Guest
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?

No, they only care about a character's face on the selection screen, as the last 30 pages have proven. They're coomers, after all.
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
10,286
Would someone here explain what people's complaints with LoD are? I remember thinging Act 5 was pretty great, and liking nearly everything LoD brought to the table. Did the Nephalim bullshit begin with LoD? I don't remember that getting going until D3. It's been a very long time since I played.

- rare are the best equipment in original. So you always check rares. LOD changed that and uniques and runewords are the best items which means everyone runs in the same gear
- synergies were introduced in LOD which pidgeonholes you multiple specific skills. In original you could make fire sorc and blizz sorc without any issues at the same time. In lod you have to pick one because you leave a lot of damage on table otherwise. So more builds by more skill combinations.
- new gear introduced shitload of very powerful stats that made stat system and a lot of gear less important. Why would you need mana items when you can just wear one piece of gear that makes you not only do 500% more damage but also regenerate mana quickly ? This also made a lot of other gear useless which previously at least had some use.

LOD and Original are two very different experiences. Original is better loot game as you always feel rewarded by rares and it is more flexible in how you build you character. When rare drops you always check it and you get that adrenaline rush. In LOD you play due to synergies build developers intended you to make and you only care about uniques/setitems but has more content and more actual weird builds which are fun to make + 2 new classes. So you do those ball runs to no end because again, uniques are everything in LOD so you keep killing bhall which gets boring pretty quick.

Either way D2 with proper graphics rework like here will easily be one of the best ARPGs on market even without changing much gameplay. There is a reason why game is 20 years old and there are shitload of people still playing it.

- best campaign of all ARPG where you never feel overpowered unlike something like GD or POE which due to mechanics of game by level 10 you are already in snooze mode as game becomes walk in park until you reach like very end of end game.
- best looting in any arpg. Itemization in D2 and main stat system is still better than GD POE. Even some magic items feel powerful as you can only get stat best rolls on magic items not on rares or uniques.
- Loot drops enough to be fun but not too much so it is tiring like in POE or GD. Getting uniques/set items is actual reward as they are very rare drops compared to GD or POE currently. POE had the same kind of system back in 1.0 not it shits all over uniques.
- stat system is great. You have unified armor so what your sorc waers as armor is limited by strenght, how much mana you have is limited by your mana stat points and so on.
- weapon type galore. Polearms, picks, spears, javelins, swords, crossbows, bows, maces and so on. Both GD and POE are put to shame by this old grandpa.
- best melee gameplay in arpg. Both GD and POE go into "melee is actually just spells with STR scalling". GD is better on that front but both are shit compared to D2.
- You can actually fucking see something when you play game in the end game.

And there are minuses:
- end game is poor, you mostly reroll and start new char
- stamina system is retarded
- potion system is jank now
- much less weird builds than GD POE

"You don't like men in dresses > you are tranny" Is that what you learned in your gender studies class today, Perkel? But there is one thing you forgot - i hate niggers too. And that makes me BLACK TRANNY! So my life matters and yours not. Shut up and listen, bitch.

You don't need anything to smell shitty weeb. You just have to be normal.

Excellent summation, friend.

IF Blizz are smart, they will ignore most of the purists who are part of the #NOCHANGES nutjobs, and actually fix the glaring balance and bug problems with patch 1.14d. I mean the best part of playing Diablo 2 right now, are the mods, which feature numerous good balance and qol changes.
WE all played the same game for 20 years, it's time to move forward abit.
Cross-progression alone (and maybe crossplay?) already makes it automatically better than the original

Hope the game gets a mobile port
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
17,722
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?

cover5.jpg

Yes.
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
10,286
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?

No, they only care about a character's face on the selection screen, as the last 30 pages have proven. They're coomers, after all.
I miss when western developers made attractive female characters

456124-prisoner849.png
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
I remember enjoying Grim Dawn the most out of the clones, but haven't played it in years and haven't tried any DLC. Is the full version overall improvement or decline compared to main game?
Ashes of Malmouth and Forgotten Gods add a ton of stuff to the game, they are more like expansions than those lame ass DLC people release these days, with both of them and the patches over the years, Grim Dawn now feels like a complete game and much better than at release, I wouldnt advise anyone to buy Grim Dawn on release because the game felt really lacking in content but now it is the best Diablo 2 clone because it offers a ton of content without always online bullshit. It also offers enough complexity in terms of build making without going PoE route with you needing autistic Excel spreadsheets to keep track of all those systems.
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,610
Location
Denmark
Part of what makes an ARPG great, is how the graphics and gameplay feels.

Are the graphics/art tasteful - In other words, can you stand to look at it for 200 hours without vomiting or getting bored?

How does the comat feel? - Are the animations fluent and cool or stiff as fuck? Does the combat have a natural flow or feel wonky?

Hows the UI and systems? - Easy to understand and deal with, but with an undercurrent of complexity?

Diablo 2 triumphs over all over that, still, 20 years later.

PoE is an example of what I hate in an ARPG, shit combat, shit animation and fluenty, bad graphics with a bunch of spells all over the place in one big clusterfuck

UI systems that seem deep and complex, but really isnt other than annoy you
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?
Diablo 1 story was pretty well done as it was more focused on a single player experience with optional multiplayer, the story was much more important in there, Diablo 2 felt more like a multiplayer game with optional single player so most people only really played together with their friends to farm but its story was still interesting. I have to say that a good story on any game only makes it better, including Diablo 2 clones. When you are killing all those endless monsters, when you know the backstory of the bosses and those monsters, fighting them feels like a more interesting event than just killing some generic enemies.
 

Testownia

Guest
Somehow, around 10 years ago people lost the understanding of what fantasy is and why we want to see idealised, strong, beautiful heroes fighting exaggerated to the same extent, crooked, disgusting creatures of evil.

The ugly amazon woman could work as a heroic fantasy story character, but she is not the protagonist of the story I want to see in Diablo - a story of idealised heroes standing against the hordes of evil. And even if I would, these fuckers should go and make a new game focusing on the Adventures of the Ugly Amazon instead of altering a character from a classic title
Does anyone cares about story in Diablo?
Diablo 1 story was pretty well done as it was more focused on a single player experience with optional multiplayer, the story was much more important in there, Diablo 2 felt more like a multiplayer game with optional single player so most people only really played together with their friends to farm but its story was still interesting. I have to say that a good story on any game only makes it better, including Diablo 2 clones. When you are killing all those endless monsters, when you know the backstory of the bosses and those monsters, fighting them feels like a more interesting event than just killing some generic enemies.

That's why StarCraft and its sequel has multiple novels, comics, and an extensive backstory. Surprisingly few retcons too, as opposed to the WarCraft setting, which comprises of nothing but retcons since WarCraft II.
 

Malamert

Arcane
Edgy
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
2,466
Blizzard can't write and story in hack 'n slash games and RTS isn't relevant.
Modern day Blizzard? Yea, they're some of the worst writers in the video game industry.
Old Blizzard when it was still composed of edgy metal nerds could write some entertaining stuff.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
Blizzard can't write and story in hack 'n slash games and RTS isn't relevant.
Ole Blizzard was a completely different company, pretty much all old employees arent on Blizzard anymore. I also disagree that story isnt important, if you are talking of traditional rpg stories with lots of dialog, yeah, I agree with you that this type of storytelling isnt compatible with certain genres but some interesting backstory, lore and some cutscenes and dialog on some strategic points can only make things better and arent hard to do.

On StarCraft 1, the briefing dialog before the missions started and the well done cutscenes on the beginning and end of the campaigns made the whole setting interesting and reinforced the fantasy. When you are on a match with other players, you may not be thinking on this backstory consciously but it is on the back of your mind, the same reason companies invest alot of propaganda even for people that might not buy that product right away when they are exposed but the propaganda make the product stick on your head and you will remember it when you actually go searching for it. Story affects your overall impression of a product on a similar fashion. Loved StarCraft 1 and each unit is iconic for me but never got into Age of Empires.

It depends of the player, but in the end, what really matters is the mechanics that are the main dish but why should I refuse a good presentation?
 
Last edited:

Testownia

Guest
Blizzard can't write and story in hack 'n slash games and RTS isn't relevant.
Ole Blizzard was a completely different company, pretty much all old employees arent on Blizzard anymore. I also disagree that story isnt important, if you are talking of traditional rpg stories with lots of dialog, yeah, I agree with you that this type of storytelling isnt compatible with certain genres but some interesting backstory, lore and some cutscenes and dialog on some strategic points can only make things better and arent hard to do.

On StarCraft 1, the briefing dialog before the missions started and the well done cutscenes on the beginning and end of the campaigns made the whole setting interesting and reinforced the fantasy. When you are on a match with other players, you may not be thinking on this backstory consciously but it is on the back of your mind, the same reason companies invest alot of propaganda even for people that might not buy that product right away when they are exposed but the propaganda make the product stick on your head and you will remember it when you actually go searching for it. Story affects your overall impression of a product on a similar fashion. Loved StarCraft 1 and each unit is iconic for me but never got into Age of Empires.

It depends of the player, but in the end, what really matters is the mechanics that are the main dish but why should I refuse a good presentation?

To be fair, the guys from "Old Blizzard" went on to make such hits as "Hellgate: London" and "Torchlight".
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,732
Pathfinder: Wrath
There's not only one story on the internet about people whose hearts started racing during the Butcher fight in D1. So yeah, story or, more precisely, context matters.
 

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